40 years of college football's sexual assault problem
40 Years of College Football's Sexual-Assault Problem
The case of FSU's Jameis Winston highlights a long and ugly history of universities dropping the ball on rape allegations.
Update: ESPN is reporting that Jameis Winston will not be charged in connection to an alleged sexual assault last December.
In November, TMZ reported that a former Florida State University student had accused the school's quarterback, Jameis Winston, of rape nearly a year ago. The accuser's lawyer says that after she came forward the Tallahassee police tried to dissuade her from pressing charges, warning her that the city is "a big football town" that might not treat her warmly if she leveled these allegations. Indeed, since her charges became public, some Seminoles fans have floated conspiracy theories that a rival school or Heisman Trophy contender may have put the accuser up to it. Prosecutors, for their part, will hold a press conference on Thursday afternoon to announce whether they'll go forward with the case.
Ultimately, Winston—whose DNA was found at the scene and who claims the sex was consensual—may not be charged. But the case has highlighted a disturbing and long-standing pattern in college football. At top football schools the sport is a major moneymaker, and many big-name universities (and law enforcement authorities in those jurisdictions) have too often shielded players accused of rape—even going so far as to smear and punish victims who speak out. Here's a brief guide to college football's sordid history of addressing sexual assault:
University of Notre Dame, 1974: An undergraduate accused six Fighting Irish players of rape. A university administrator called the woman, who later spent a month in psychiatric care, a "queen of the slums with a mattress tied to her back." No charges were filed.
Notre Dame, 1976: Two of the Notre Dame players accused in 1974, along with one other player, were accused of rape by a 17-year-old student. "I was told to shut up and mind my own business," a witness to the assault later told the National Catholic Reporter's Melinda Henneberger. The witness, a resident advisor at nearby St. Mary's College, had been informed by administrators that one of the players had been involved in another unreported rape, in addition to the previous 1974 incident. No charges were filed.
University of Colorado, 1989: Twenty-four Buffaloes were arrested in a three-year span under coach Bill McCartney for everything from rape to illegally skinning a rabbit. Another former player, linebacker Miles Kusayanagi, was accused of being "the Duct-Tape Rapist," responsible for eight sexual assaults in Boulder. (He was convicted on four counts of first-degree sexual assault.) McCartney told a local news reporter that another alleged rape by one of his players couldn't have been rape because it wasn't violent enough. Besides, he told Sports Illustrated, it could be worse: "You'll notice that we haven't had anybody shoot anybody."
(for those of you who do not know, or remember, bill mccartney is founder of "promisekeepers"
and cost the taxpayers of colorado nearly a million dollars when he ran out of his CU contract to run that woman-hating organization)
. . . .
http://www.motherjones.com/media/2013/12/college-football-sexual-assualt-jameis-winston
= new reply since forum marked as read
anyone who reads a newspaper knows that. The question is why you are insistent on raising the specter of false rape allegations in this context when the article clearly says the victims were intimidated into not reporting the crimes. This is about an epidemic of rape. Of course, we're only talking about women, and that simply cannot abide. The tens of millions of rape survivors in this country are inconsequential compared to men. 
Rapists are willfully left unpunished. Women are disbelieved, shamed, and treated as lesser citizens in the courts. That is how it is made possible for their predatory behavior to continue. Rapists know their chances of actually being convicted are very low. That is rape culture, as is the determination to focus on the rare cases of false accusations and continually ignore the significance of violent crime against women. The article paints a clear picture of rampant covering up of rape in universities. The list of unprosecuted assaults in the article is very lengthy. That, however, doesn't interest you. Instead are determined to promote your agenda. 
The press keeps talking about her lapses in memory as being key for no charges being filed.
However, I believe the real key findings regard the witnesses in the room.
There were several witnesses who saw the sex act taking place. One witness even tried to jokingly interrupt their sex act and was ushered out of the room by the accuser so she could finish her sex act with more privacy.
There is one witness with an affidavit given to the police who witnessed the accuser giving oral sex. This witness gave this statement to authorities over 10 months ago and then told the same story to the DA again when the investigation was reopened.
In what would likely come down to a he said/she said case, I think that is pretty damning evidence against the accuser's story. Don't you?
There is lots of other evidence as well, including a picture of the accuser dressed in FSU football gear going to a game to cheer on Winston after the incident occurred. (This picture is one of several widely available on the internet)
There are text messages sent and received by the accuser immediately after the incident that didn't help her case.
There are serious questions about her initial ID of the suspect.
There were claims she was hit on the head and/or suffered a concussion that was not backed my medical examination.
The woman was not drunk. There were no drugs in her system, including the date rape drug.
Authorities even found the DNA of another person on her during the rape kit examination. The second DNA sample is believed to be deposited around the same time as the alleged incident. To be clear, authorities did not officially identify the second DNA sample, but it is widely believed to be that of another scholarship football player. And yes, his name is readily available too.
This is just some of what the DA looked at when he determined there was not sufficient evidence to seek charges in this case. I would add, that if you were around high level athletics, you would understand that players are targets. They are targets for women. They are targets for men. They are targets for money.They are targets for fame. They are targets for resentment. Because there is so much anger in the general public against the so called "privileges of athletes", they are often held to a higher criminal standard by police. Not a lower one.
The are some in the general public who claim this case was dismissed because a star football player was involved. That is wrong. In truth, if this had been an "average joe" nobody would have ever heard of this case. And charges still would not have likely been filed. Authorities even under extreme public pressure have now closed this case twice in 10 months. What does that tell you?
BTW... this incident occurred last year. The player was not yet a star. He hadn't even played. He was a freshman student on FSU's campus. Nobody knew who he was. So why would he have been given the star treatment a year ago? It just doesn't add up.
When you actually read through much of the evidence, this woman is fortunate not be be charged with making a false accusation. The real victim is Jamies Winston. He is the person who has to move on with a stain on his record over something for which he was never even charged with a crime, never mind actually being found guilty.
I love DU. But I am amazed at how often on this site any time a rape accusation is made, everyone assumes guilt. In this case guilt is assumed even when there are no charges filed. I am frankly even scared at the lack of objectivity found here when this issue comes up. There is a lot of hate. We have a lot of people here that sadly don't have the mind set to ever objectively sit on a jury in a rape case.
I could provide more on the case. But I don't want to violate any of DU's posting policies, especially regarding information that would make it easy to identify the accuser. But trust me. There is a reason why the case has now been closed twice in just 10 months. The accuser was not raped. PERIOD.
Sorry for the long post. But I have one more tidbit to add.
The DA's press conference was awful. Rape is a serious crime. I thought the atmosphere and tone of the DA was deplorable. I also think the Tallahassee PD did a terrible job. If they had done a better job 10 months ago, none of this would have happened. The accuser still would have some sense of privacy. And an innocent young man would not have seen his name dragged through the mud over something he did not do.
For instance the accuser and Winston were at a bar before the alleged incident took place. They were drinking. The security camera at the bar had it on tape. But because the initial police investigation was so poor, the police never recovered the tapes. The DA said that having the video of them in the bar that night would have helped the investigation. But we don't have it, because the Police work was terrible. That wasn't good for the accuser, the defendant, or justice.
Okay.. I'll stop now.
there is enough doubt here to warrant the decision by the DA yesterday. Most objective people support the decision.
As for the picture, I can't post it because it could lead to the identification of the accuser. That is against DU guidelines. But its out there. I have seen 2 pictures of her. One in her FSU football gear. One with her and a friend. Simply do a Google search. I think you could easily find it if you want to.
I have given you 3 credible objective news sources with excerpts explaining in detail why the DA did what he did. And you can't even present one example of evidence that in your view would exonerate someone in a hypothetical case?
I honestly think its possible that for people who think like you, it's impossible for anyone to ever be innocent of a rape accusation. Wow. Hate is truly blind and powerful.
You have resorted to swearing and name calling. You have offered no evidence or insight as to how Winston could be guilty or why the DA should have proceeded further.
I am providing facts and evidence in the case. In return you shout at me and swear.
I suppose until you can at least provide a thumbnail sketch as to why the DA's conclusion is wrong, (As well as that of the overwhelming majority of legal opinions I have seen on the case) there is no reason to go any further.
If my OP regarding the picture wasn't fully clear I apologize. The picture shows her dressed up in FSU gear before a football game after the alleged incident. FSU fans said she was cheering on Winston during the game. If that wasn't fully clear again I apologize. The picture and information is readily available online. It's not conclusive evidence. But it is a part of the story. If you read the OP, this was not a big part of argument. If you wish to hang your hat on the fact that the post was poorly worded with regard to when the picture was taken during the game... so be it.
Secondly, if you read my original OP into this discussion, (instead of just swearing at me with angry outbursts), you would have known that I too think the police did a terrible job.
l spent a whole paragraph talking about how poor the Tallahassee PD handled the case.
And unlike you, who apparently is inellectually unable to discuss any facts about the case, I cited a specific example in my post, noting that because of the poor police work prosecutors did not have bar video when the two where having drinks before the alleged incident. I even wrote the lack of video evidence at the bar which police should have confiscated, didn't help the accuser when she made her claims. I further provided credible news links where the DA said the same thing.
So we have agreement.
You believe there was not enough credible evidence to charge someone with a crime. So do I.
You believe the police were complete fools and did a terrible job on the case. And so do I.
Have we found common ground!
research into the case before calling people you don't even know stupid. I haven't called you any names like that.
I don't want to go into the real details of this case, especially with someone who by their own admission doesn't know a lot about it.
However, I will say this. There is compelling evidence that this woman never wanted to bring charges. I think she got swept into the case by the people around her, including her family who allegedly leaked the story to the Tampa Bay Tribune setting off this firestorm. (And yes there is evidence to support this.)
Furthermore, throughout this case the accuser has both engaged and disengaged police efforts to solve this alleged crime. If you read the report, at one point during the case, the investigation was hampered because police were trying to determine who was responsible for the second DNA swab, and she wouldn't tell them. That's how uncooperative she was. There is evidence to support the charges where made up because Winston's girlfriend was coming to town and the accuser didn't like that. She gave conflicted details of her alleged attacker. Including an initial description that was way off. She didn't identify Winston until weeks later.
She claimed she had a head injury. There was no medical evidence of this.
She claimed she was raped. There was no evidence of sexual trauma. And remember it is very possible to have trauma during consensual sex. She has sex twice within this time frame with 2 different football players (one of which was an alleged rape) and showed no trauma at all.
Again this does NOT PROVE that a rape did not happen. But it certainly doesn't prove that it did.
Finally, there are credible witnesses who saw her engaging in sex with Winston. They tell the story of a willing participant. Not someone who was raped. There were no screams. No violence. No drugs. Nobody was drunk. Nobody heard anything. She was even texting classmates looking for the answers to an exam right after this sexual escapade that was watched by multiple people.
Again for the millionth time, this DOES NOT PROVE that a rape did not occur. But it is compelling evidence.
Perhaps accusing her of making false accusations is a bit strong. I may need to take that back. But if this isn't a story that at the very least should be looked at with severe skepticism, then you are basically saying it is impossible for anyone accused of rape to every be exonerated, short of the women recanting her story, or DNA evidence showing they never had sex. This was my point.
I would invite you to do some research into the case. Its very interesting. Please read the 86 page report. Its fascinating. Police have looked at this case twice in 10 months and come to the same conclusion both times. There is a reason for that.
I hope we can continue to have a discussion without the name calling and angry outbursts.
Here is their link.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20131205/jameis-winston-florida-state-seminoles-not-charged/
In affidavits, Florida State cornerback Ronald Darby and defensive end Chris Casher told a very different story. The players said they met the woman at Potbelly's and that she willingly joined them in a taxi. They each said Casher saw the woman give Winston oral sex because the bedroom door was ajar due to a non-working lock. Casher said he saw them take their clothes off, lie on the bed and begin to have intercourse. He and Darby said Casher burst in the room at one point to embarrass Winston, and Casher said the woman yelled "get out." "From what I saw, she was a more than willing participant," Casher said in his affidavit. Winston never spoke to investigators. He only provided a DNA sample.
----SNIP----
Teammates might attempt to help a fellow player facing such an accusation, so Meggs and his staff had to consider that possibility. But independent of the witnesses, there were two other factors that would have made the case difficult to prosecute.
First, the woman had significant gaps in her memory. "Her recall of the events of that night have been moving around a good bit," Meggs said. "There are some memory lapses. There are some major issues. We have been trying to determine about the memory lapses what would cause that." A toxicology report found that the woman's blood-alcohol level was .048. For comparison's sake, the legal driving limit in Florida is .08. Meggs said technicians extrapolated based on the time the sample was taken and estimated her blood-alcohol level at the time of the incident would have been .10. No drugs were found in her system. Meggs said there was no physical evidence of any head trauma.
Second, investigators found a second DNA profile on the shorts the woman provided. (Winston's DNA profile was found on her underwear.) A defense attorney could use an unknown DNA profile as the foundation of his defense. If prosecutors couldn't positively identify the source of the unknown DNA profile, a defense attorney could suggest that the person who provided the other sample committed the rape. That would likely provide reasonable doubt in jurors' minds. So if Meggs was going to prosecute, he would have to identify that sample. "She acknowledged having sex with her boyfriend," Meggs said. "But she wouldn't tell me who her boyfriend was. Being a shrewd investigator, we found out, and we got his DNA." The investigation could have wrapped up more quickly if not for the delay, which required Meggs to enlist the help of a prosecutor in Ohio to request the boyfriend's DNA.
Identifying the boyfriend's DNA removed a significant stumbling block for prosecutors, but the woman's reluctance to name him could have been problematic. Combined with the conflicting witness accounts and the gaps in her memory, Meggs and his staff decided they would have a difficult time meeting their burden of proof at trial.
---------------------------------------
I would be interested in your feedback.
I think for this particular topic, the CNN article is fair and objective.
Don't you just love the ridiculous comments? Sadly I think it does in a small way provide an open window into how bad our society really is.
when in reality they are rare. It's not hard to figure out the reason for those kind of willful distortions. That 4% of rapists are actually convicted is truly horrifying. Worse yet, some of them even get jail time. Poor men. They are the ones who really count. The fact that 20% of women are raped is inconsequential because our lives don't count.
Guilt and innocence is handed down by courts only. We merely have opinions. But my all means-- continue to conflate the two to better validate your own biases and well as pretend bias in others... that too is your right.
as I said up-thread a bit:
Those FBI stats are 'flawed' because... something 
And a very happy new year.
I'm so shocked you think that. 
To me, it's depressing to see these women. It's not about the rape for them, it's about the winning. 
Last edited Fri Dec 6, 2013, 06:07 PM - Edit history (1)
I take back what I said about your not going around talking about false accusations. I clearly overestimated you. It won't happen again.
that certainly clears up the meaning...
When he was at Pitt. He was a senior and she was a freshman. She was in an elevator with him, and he asked her "how would you like to sleep with a legend?" I told her that she should have responded that she didn't see Joe Montana around here anywhere. 
It's jock privilege, plain and simple. They're taught that all women are going to fall all over them. A lot of women are "starfuckers" and do fall all over them. There's a lot that are looking for a payout. But that doesn't excuse raping someone - even from my beloved Ben Roethlisberger.
I mean, after all, all school athletes are noble and can never do wrong. As Gerald Ford once said, "Athletes are the natural leaders of a country." (That must be true. After all, we know that all nonathletic men are wimps.) Blah, blah, blah.
Do you really believe the sports media makes a point to expose bad behavior on the part of athletes? Oh, please! They're too busy putting athletes on pedestals to do any investigative reporting. Besides, we don't want to upset the sports fans. Of course, there are a few football fans who are candid enough to admit that they have no problem with rapists playing on their favorite teams.
Have you ever heard of "jock privilege"? Have you ever heard of unbounded sense of entitlement? ("We own this s---."
A former university football player with whom I'm acquainted has referred to the "rule the roost" attitude that most of his teammates had.
We live in a society in which, far more often than not, school athletes are not held accountable for rotten conduct off the playing field. I seriously doubt many high-school football coaches have any problem with any of their players bullying other students. (Especially if the bullying victim is physically weaker. Since many of these guys define masculinity in terms of athletic prowess and physical strength, they will view a teenage boy who is not physically strong or who simply has no interest in sports as not deserving of any respect. So, he deserves to be bullied for being such a "sissy" or wimp.)
Sure, there are false accusations of rape; but many rapes are never reported, no doubt because the victim doesn't think she will receive any justice, but will likely be victimized by the local community. (Witness the death threats the Steubenville victim received AFTER the conviction. Also notice the lack of outrage by sports fans and columnists over this heartbreaking injustice of these death threats.) But statistics have shown that a nonathletic man is far more likely to be convicted of rape than an athlete accused of rape. It's not surprising. All the defense attorney has to do is pack the jury full of sports fans! I have no doubt that if the Steubenville case had been tried before a jury, there would have been no conviction.
We live in a society in which a teenage adolescent or a young man who commits a rape can actually get away with it if . . . he excels at a sport! That's not insane? No, what will often happen is that the local community will rally around the rapist(s) and spit upon the victim. (Good sportsmanship, I suppose!)
I notice you don't comment on most of the cases listed in the OP. (Oh, well, it doesn't matter. We all know the game of football is more important than the issue of rape being covered up. To hell with the victims!) I suggest you read Our Guys by Bernard Lefkowitz. It might broaden your outlook beyond the extremely biased view of so many sports fans.
The only thing that would have vindicated him in MY eyes is being in jail. Then again, look at Michael Vick.
