No answer

It's being run by evil people who have totally corrupted the system with money.

Can be called for by states. There are enough blue states and some red states would play along.
www.wolf-pac.com
Go, learn, and preach,

don't like the status quo you are naive.

This is a movement at the state level, not federal. It will work.

If you think nothing can change you are naive. Change will happen, change always happens.

A Constitutional convention would open a Pandora's box.

" with no relation to social status, class....background. Whether it suits them or not, people yearn for a dream. Sustained by a dream, revived by dream, killed by a dream, and even after being abandoned by a dream, it continues too smolder from the bottom of one's heart...probably until the verge of death...A man should envision such a lifetime once. A life spent as a martyr..to the god named "Dream"." Taka no Dan's Griffith, as transcribed in a translation of Miura work (Berserk).

We will forever lose our country if we do not fight. We might suffer unexpected outcomes if we fight. Given a choice between a dead certainty of disaster and a chance of disaster, I'll take the chance.

Then anyone that didn't tithe 10% would be fined by the government.

a Constitutional convention cannot be limited - any part of the Constitution can be changed.

In case you haven't noticed, we are losing our country to the monied few. Our country has a lot of flaws but, I think it is still worth fighting for.

The first rule of real fight club, play hard.

The RW thinks that the liberals are well funded by media elites....They want to end that.

for it. I was on a road trip and happen to come across his show..
He is a Libertarian, Attorney, and a real smooth talker. He convinced
me to go along with it. He is also a strong believer in term limits.
I have always believed in term limits myself, even before I heard him
speak on it.

I agree we need to do something because our elected
officials are not going to change the status quo. They are in deep and don't see any way out.

Electing a new bread of politicians is
scary, there is always a chance we could loose a seat, or complete control. We have got to take the chance and roll with it. As painful as that may be, and scary we must stop the killing of the nation.

Sometimes I already think its to late. I have such despair for our future and my child's future. *sigh
btw. do you think the liberals are well funded? I don't, not even close to the RW.

Sorry, it just does not.

Once a constitutional convention is convened there is no way to determine the outcome- the worse case is the suspension of the present constitution completely and putting forth a new constitution. So what if the convention is controlled by tea baggers or for that matter any kind of ideologue?

It still requires a 3/4 majority of the individual states to be ratified (50 X 0.75 =37.5, or 38 states still would be required to ratify any proposed amendment before it became a part of the constitution).
According to politifact ( http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/aug/30/xavier-becerra/11000-attempts-amend-us-constitution-only-27-amend/) there have been 11,000 attempts to amend the constitution. It has been amended 27 times.

It was called to deal with problems with the Articles of Confederation which was the constitution the United States was operating under. Instead the Philadelphia Convention threw out the Articles of Confederation and proceeded to craft a whole new constitution- the one which has served us well these 225 years.

There is no guarantee that a 2nd convention would stop at an amendment or 2 but could very well follow in the foot steps of the 1st convention.

Over the years a number of state legislatures have voted for a constitutional convention- some are saying that if 2 more states are added the convention will be called. Whatever they do must be accepted as the law of the land and the congress if it still exists will have no say.

Apparently the last convention turned out well.

Opening a constitutional convention is a dangerous move since the whole of the Constitution is open to change and the process will be controlled by the very forces you seek to root out.

You want campaign finance reform ... we would likely get a constitutional memorialization of Citizens United.

No thanks.

To Propose an constitutional amendment to the states for consideration to ratify as an actual change to the Constitution. All it takes is both house of congress to have a 2/3 vote to submit it to the states for ratification. The states themselves can call for a convention to skip the 2/3d vote by congress to submit the proposal in the first place.
Amending the Constitution still requires a 2/4 majority of States ratifying the amendment.


Either of these can be done at any time.

but two things: First, an amendment is far more narrow in scope, as it addresses one matter at a time, as opposed to the convention process that offers up the entire document.

Secondly, a convention is not a "short cut" as the process still requires a 2/3 vote to call the convention.

And 2/3 of the individual states must call for the convention. But that was how it was supposed to work in the first place. The agents of the state (Senators and Representatives) under orders of the state; would submit, in conjunction with agents of other states, a proposal to amend. Then the states, one by one, would ratify or not, said amendment.

If, for any reason, the agents of a state were acting for personal reasons instead of in the common interest of the state's population. The states can act on their own.

that we are powerless to stop.

on the masses. Either the M$M change their business model (which is highly unlikely) or We the People need to tune them out and become pro-active when it comes to ingesting news by simply deciding enough is enough. Then we can begin the process of separating the wheat from the propaganda chaff.

And those who support them?" Is more like it.

The message is the opposite such as war equals peacekeeping.

One party hates everything other money and war and christianity. About 50% of country votes for them even though that party is fucking them out of life.

The other party always has to fix the mess of the mongering party, and then they are demonized... About 50% of the country likes them but their voice tends to be drowned out by the loud voice of stupidity...

as long as they confine the duels to each other.

for 30+ years. The evil plan worked brilliantly.

If it's the word of God, by God, that's all that matters! Religious zealotry is at the root of it all.

With the hardshell Baptist preacher railing against unions and Bolshevism.I can't find it separately online, but it's quite memorable. It was just after Joe Kenehan came to town. I wondered how much the Stone Mountain Coal Company paid him to preach that sermon. And I wonder how many RW-slanted "sermons in fundamentalist churches are bought and paid for by RW organizations.

Of "us".

since reagan killed the fairness doctrine the whole country has been bathed with scripted right wing bullshit and aside from the recent specifically targeted limbaugh boycotting there has been NO effort to talk back to it. there has been no effort to know what they're repeating, where, and how often.

they put carnival barkers on every corner and stump in the country screaming all day that liberals are liars and thieves and whores and their ideas treasonous and the 'left' just walks by with their ipods in theirears while the think tanks use their made-to-order talk radio constituency to enable and intimidate and misinform at will. it's as if it's no big deal to give the billionaires' army of corporatist fascist think tank PR pros and their idiot frightened dittohead tea party army of authoritarian followers a free speech free ride.

if a guy stands on the corner calling your sister a whore and your father a traitor all day and you keep ignoring him eventually your neighbors might start to believe him, no matter how well they know you.

and we allow many of our major colleges to put their sports logos on those soapboxes in exchange for a few bucks........

https://sites.google.com/site/universitiesforrushlimbaugh/

Mainstream media journalists are downright afraid of telling the truth for the heap of crap they will have to endure from the right. It is a relentless, evil campaign to silence any and all descent. Media bosses also discourage angering the right for the same reason.

they can send out a memo/spin nationally with the main talkers, to limbaugh and hannity if it's important, or to the local blowhards to generate some rage to intimidate.

but i'll bet a lot of them are tired of it and i'll bet most have no idea where it starts if they don't listen to talk radio - what thinking sane people can?

so when the left finally starts including RW radio in their protest and activity plans (stoprush etc is a start), many in media and politicians will loosen up and feel braver.

Sickens me. Quite literally.

See my comment below, #62

as long as we (our orgs and 'spokespeople') ignore the radio factor and consider it fox's little brother at best, our chance at 'framing' is a dream. they have 1200 coordinated radio stations and stink tank PR pros watching everything. if they notice something working for us they can design a campaign to distort, distract, demonize, etc., and blast it out as long as it takes.

OWS is a good eg. as important and visible as it was in all those locations, the national and local RW stations were all working together, with localized coordination. a few lying sacks of crap with big megaphones reaching tens of thousands locally and tens of millions nationally could continue their distortion and demonizing and cop cheerleading and media intimidation as long as it took to get the camps raided and then fade OWS out of the media.

and at the actual wall street protest, how many protestors went through union station downtown, the address of one of limbaugh's main stations, without stopping?

until the left stops giving those radio stations and the monopoly a free speech free ride and greatly underestimating ALEC's best weapon, we will have very little real reform.

But they have their own speaker's bureau, television studios, their own so called "experts," and a booking agency that calls up and pitches their talent to radio and television and whatever public platforms to pitch their ideas. They're pitching their ideas, and the first thing we have to do is stop using their words. The next thing we need to do is put our own speaker's bureau together, and it won't be easy. Now? If Nancy Pelosi or someone actually asked me for advice about an invite to one of these conservative radio outlets, I"d just decline. Bill O'Reilley, Gretchen Carlson, Neal Cavuto(sp?). I'd advise against going on all of those shows, it's a rigged game. It would take a lot of training and study for our guys to learn how to handle themselves under that barrage, best to wait till they're ready for it because we don't want to make a bad situation worse. The second thing we need to do is have our trainings and work shops set up and train speakers for every single congressional district in the country. It won't be easy, but we can do it if we make the commitment.

I think it is absolutely disgusting that we even need to discuss doing the right thing for the majority of people.

The GOP is a criminal organization that is actively trying to destroy the social compact that liberal progressives have built for seventy five years. I really think there is something horribly wrong with people who have a need to control such vast amounts of wealth and who desire to live in walled compounds with armed guards while the working class is suffering and dying, working for slave wages in unsafe conditions with no health insurance.

The question is, what are you willing to do to stop them!

Shoot poor folks for no good reason (bonus points for poor folks & minorities)
Let them die because they can't afford health care


Didn't think the sarcasm smiley was really needed, but added it just in case

It's anti-logic. Or a demented hypothesis, as in:

"If everyone in America having a gun will make us safer,

then everyone in America having health care, will destroy us."

having a gun will make us safer,
health care, will destroy us."

between intelligent, well-educated or not exhausted people is not far enough above the number of stupid, poorly educated or working three jobs and living paycheck to paycheck people to be beyond the influence of voter fraud.

And the media has been completely corrupted.

So the solution lies somewhere in a combination of:
1.) enforceable journalistic standards for truth and accuracy.
2.) better education and continuing education
3.) better labor standards; a living wage from one job
4.) a civic culture including better access to means of voting. It is an absolute goddamn national disgrace that in 2013 anyone is standing in a four hour line on a work day to vote. There should be a secure online voting system or everyone should be able to mail in paper ballots for free. In person voting should be on a weekend, ideally on both a Saturday and Sunday. Honestly, what's the rush to get election results for candidates that won't be sworn in for another two months?

Not holding my breath for any of this to happen as all of these problems have been along for 20 years and nothing has been done about them.

And I officially endorse everything you said. [URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

I found it humorous that I saw this
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024152305
And directly under it was your "WTF is wrong with America?". Seriously, though, th amount of things fucked p would be a long list. K&R

The Bill of rights 'says we can have guns.'
But it does not 'say we can have health care.'
The word 'healthcare' is nowhere in Bill of Rights, whereas the word 'guns,'......ooppsss...

Nothing.

It is the self-loathing of The Common people that makes them vulnerable to the
myths and propaganda of the greedy elite.

Why do so many “common folks” seems to have a low sense of self-worth that
makes them vulnerable to subjugation via dumb ideas?

--Lack of education and/or analytical ability; Intellectual sloth.
--Deep dislike of reading and/or conceptual thinking.
--Religious teachings that encourage subservience and surrender to circumstances, on
some level
--Racist or prejudicial sentiments that encourage support of divisive policies and
demagogue-ish candidates, representatives and elected executives.

Some of the more important American Myths:

“If you are poor, then it's naturally your fault”

“If someone is very rich, they must be exceptional and even superior to other people in some ways”

“Free-Enterprise and Free-Markets exists only if huge corporations and banks are not
stifled by any significant regulation”

“Cannabis is a dangerous substance that needs to be restricted far more aggressively than alcohol”

“Labor and capital should be taxed at the same rate”

“Big companies deserve more freedom from accountability than small companies”

“Gay marriage harms conventional marriage”

“Jesus did not favor the poor at least as much, or perhaps more, than the rich and powerful”

“Science can be depended on daily in the form of medicine and healthcare, high-tech communications,
transportation, and recreation, but not believed in the areas of climate change and evolution”.

I could go on for about a month!

Those responsible are traitors in every sense of the word.

The media is now in the hands of a very few. They strictly control the message. TV journalism is, for all intents and purposes, dead. So goes the democracy.

way; or treating this philosophy as just another (rational) viewpoint---as opposed to calling it INSANITY, and the people who voice it CRACKPOTS is only encouraging more of it.

Truth is, there are nihilists, nativists, racists, and various other assorted idiots in every country in the world, but only in America is stupidity actually treated as a VIRTUE. In every other country, people keep their racism, xenophobia or ignorance to themselves because A) they find it embarrassing, B) deep down inside they know their philosophy on life is backwards, and they only practice it because they 'can't help it,' and C) they know that if they repeat their ignorant world views in public they'll be MOCKED.

And, obviously, we've brought much of this on ourselves by not calling it what it is: INSANITY.

Anybody who thinks that ARMING EVERYBODY will make us all safer...IS NUTS! Period. Anybody who believes that has no ability to reason. They have no capacity for rational thought. THEY'VE GOT A FEW SCREWS LOOSE! Treating this mental pathology as if it were a legitimate viewpoint, equal to other world views that have been arrived at via logic is just unwise.

Ditto for NUTCASES who believe that removing all restrictions from commerce will release the 'magic' of the free market, and without the big, bad old government being mean to business, the world will turn into a libertarian paradise, where everybody gets a free pony. Heck, the great god of the free market will even eliminate human foibles, like racism, prejudice and exploitation. Supply side Pixie Dust will make EVERYTHING better, if only you'd believe. That's not a 'philosophy.' That's some kind of mystic religion....

That is how THEY accomplish their goals.

but in the case of teabaggers, I'd love to see them try.

Same thing with "myths vs. the facts," and even Media Matters. Repeating their assertions in their language and then refuting it, when we do that we're chasing our tail. Worse, it only serves to reinforce what they're saying. Look at those stupid myths vs the facts sheets, the "myth" is printed in bold in their language. The long winded refute of the myth is printed in normal font. What we need to do first and foremost is stop using their words, stop quoting them verbatim. Recast what they're saying from our point of view. "My opponent's idea of responsible gun safety legislation is putting guns in the hands of criminals and the insane." Or, "my opponent believes that only certain people should be able to go to the doctor, when they're sick." We should state our beliefs, the facts from our point of view in our own language. "The public is the foundation of the private, private success depends on public investment." Pension and Social Security are delayed earnings, payment for work already done. Taking that money and using it for other purposes is stealing." That's what we've got to do. Make them refute our claims, hopefully they'll use our language and try to refute it. Make them chase their tails. Read the little blue book by George Lakoff.

I wish I could find the hope to believe in change, but I'm stumped.

in spite of everything they pull and their fierce opposition to anything and everything that might actually help people. What's even worse is that their supporters and some other people wind up getting duped into believing their lies that they wind up fighting against themselves and their best interests.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.