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ProSense

(116,464 posts)
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 02:21 PM Mar 2012

Is there any limit to Mitt Romney’s dishonesty?

Is there any limit to Mitt Romney’s dishonesty?

By Greg Sargent

<...>

Here’s a test case: The debate over Medicare — and Romney’s embrace of the Paul Ryan plan — is about to dominate the conversation. Romney is moving to get ahead of the story by accusing Obama of being the one who would “end Medicare as we know it.” Here’s the Romney campaign’s statement this morning:

“There are two proposals on the table for addressing the nation’s entitlement crisis. Mitt Romney — along with a bipartisan group of leaders — has offered a solution that would introduce competition and choice into Medicare, control costs, and strengthen the program for future generations. President Obama has cut $500 billion from Medicare to fund Obamacare and created an unaccountable board with rationing power — all while America’s debt is spiraling out of control and we continue to run trillion-dollar deficits.

“If President Obama’s plan is to end Medicare as we know it, he should say so. If he has another plan, he should have the courage to put it forward.”

The claim that Romney supports a solution favored by a “bipartisan group of leaders” is a reference to the plan authored by Ryan and Dem Senator Ron Wyden. The idea that this represents “bipartisan” suppport is laughable. But this type of claim is made on both sides, so put it aside.

More interesting is the assertion that Obama has “cut $500 billion from Medicare” and created an “unaccountable board with rationing power” even as the deficit is “spiraling out of control.” That’s a reference to Obamacare’s efforts to curb spending with $500 billion in savings that are actually wrung from health care providers, not Medicare beneficiaries. That “unaccountable board,” meanwhile, is a reference to the Independent Payment Advisory Board, which is designed to make recommendations for reducing Medicare costs, and explicitly cannot recommend rationing.

Get the trick here? The Romney campaign is accusing Obama of slashing Medicare, and hence “ending Medicare as we know it,” while simultaneously accusing him of failing to curb entitlement spending in ways that pose grave danger to the nation’s finances. This, even as Romney has endorsed a plan that would quasi-voucherize Medicare and end the program as we know it.

- more -

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/is-there-any-limit-to-mitt-romneys-dishonesty/2012/03/12/gIQAIIwQ7R_blog.html



32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Is there any limit to Mitt Romney’s dishonesty? (Original Post) ProSense Mar 2012 OP
In Game Change I recall a scene in which they tell Palin she can't just flat out lie aint_no_life_nowhere Mar 2012 #1
Short answer: No. hifiguy Mar 2012 #2
The lies would not stand if BO quit compromising and equivocating. Vincardog Mar 2012 #3
So ProSense Mar 2012 #4
It is his fault if his lies have any traction. Where is the CLEAR STATEMENT "Medicare and all Social Vincardog Mar 2012 #6
Maybe ProSense Mar 2012 #9
My statement was meant as a helpful criticism. As a way BO could counter the blatant LIES of the RW Vincardog Mar 2012 #11
By ProSense Mar 2012 #12
Again Your words. I am responsible for the way I react not the way you do. Vincardog Mar 2012 #13
I think we're going to have to realize that many people will interpret a thing LanternWaste Mar 2012 #14
U are correct Some people are so determined to fight that everything seems to them to be an attack Vincardog Mar 2012 #17
Oh please, ProSense Mar 2012 #18
"IF his lies have any traction." Complete sentences. A.D.D. much? Vincardog Mar 2012 #28
No ProSense Mar 2012 #15
IF as you state 'the lies are not getting any traction', why would my opinion of where the fault Vincardog Mar 2012 #19
Yes ProSense Mar 2012 #20
MY suggestion of how he could combat the lies in the event they did gain traction. That is a demand Vincardog Mar 2012 #21
Yeah, ProSense Mar 2012 #22
The wheels go round in circles Vincardog Mar 2012 #23
Agreed Doctor_J Mar 2012 #29
When we get "Campaign" Obama back and I am afraid only for as long as the election lasts I has a sad Vincardog Mar 2012 #30
Repubs are desparate to get rid of the ACA Independent Review Board, that will review librechik Mar 2012 #5
No, Ma'am The Magistrate Mar 2012 #7
If the GOP thinks either of these clowns can do better than Obama they are seriously deluded. Initech Mar 2012 #8
That's a rhetorical question, right? 11 Bravo Mar 2012 #10
Give me one reason why he would have a limit. Rex Mar 2012 #16
I've been saying this all along. Romney is a liar. savalez Mar 2012 #24
Of course there is. hughee99 Mar 2012 #25
K&R this is important folks. great white snark Mar 2012 #26
No. HopeHoops Mar 2012 #27
Romney doesn't want ppl to know how old he is Johonny Mar 2012 #31
No Irishonly Mar 2012 #32

aint_no_life_nowhere

(21,925 posts)
1. In Game Change I recall a scene in which they tell Palin she can't just flat out lie
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 02:25 PM
Mar 2012

Well it looks that's become SOP for the party.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
4. So
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 02:50 PM
Mar 2012

"The lies would not stand if BO quit compromising and equivocating."

...it's Obama's fault that Romney lies?

Look, the facts are clear, they've been repeated ad nauseum. Americans do not want to end or privatize Medicare, and Americans aren't buying what Republicans are selling.

Kaiser poll: Obama trusted more on future of ACA, Medicare; 54 percent expand/keep ACA
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/1002367724

Vincardog

(20,234 posts)
6. It is his fault if his lies have any traction. Where is the CLEAR STATEMENT "Medicare and all Social
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 03:10 PM
Mar 2012

programs will not be touched under MY ADMINISTRATION"?

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
9. Maybe
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 03:21 PM
Mar 2012
It is his fault if his lies have any traction. Where is the CLEAR STATEMENT "Medicare and all Social

programs will not be touched under MY ADMINISTRATION" ?

...you could point to the "traction"?

Still, how the hell does that make Obama responsible for Mitt Romney tellling a lie? Seems like you're busy campaigning against the President instead of looking at the facts objectively.

I mean, Mitt Romney tells a lie, the OP article states what the facts are, and you're insisting that it's Obama's fault that Romney lied. Not only that, you're shouting demands to see a "CLEAR STATEMENT" from the President that: "Medicare and all Social programs will not be touched under MY ADMINISTRATION"

Do you believe Romney's lie? The facts are in the OP. How exactly is the pledge you're demanding relevant to Romney's lie?



Vincardog

(20,234 posts)
11. My statement was meant as a helpful criticism. As a way BO could counter the blatant LIES of the RW
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 03:34 PM
Mar 2012

I am not "campaigning against" President Obama. I am not DEMANDING anything.
When you objectively look at my posts you will see that I have only pointed out ways President Obama could
easily defuse this lie.

The fact that; you project your reactions onto me and imply motives that I do not have;
suggests your real problems could be addressed better if you looked in a mirror.
.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
12. By
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 03:57 PM
Mar 2012

"My statement was meant as a helpful criticism. As a way BO could counter the blatant LIES of the RW"

...insisting that it's Obama's fault that Romney lied?

OK!

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
14. I think we're going to have to realize that many people will interpret a thing
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 04:20 PM
Mar 2012

I think we're going to have to realize that many people will interpret a thing in such as way as to best fit their own world-view, and any other possibilities of interpretation, no matter how valid they may be, will be either trivialized or minimized, so as not to upset those world-views.

It seems to be happening more and more, lately...

Vincardog

(20,234 posts)
17. U are correct Some people are so determined to fight that everything seems to them to be an attack
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 04:51 PM
Mar 2012

I am remained of the saying "With friends like these who needs enemies?"

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
18. Oh please,
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 04:57 PM
Mar 2012

"U are correct Some people are so determined to fight that everything seems to them to be an attack "

...your stated claim that it's Obama's fault that Romney lies is not a matter of my perception. They're your words.

Own them.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
15. No
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 04:40 PM
Mar 2012

"Again Your words."

...they're your words.

In fact, my full response was:

So it's Obama's fault that Romney lies?

Look, the facts are clear, they've been repeated ad nauseum. Americans do not want to end or privatize Medicare, and Americans aren't buying what Republicans are selling.

Kaiser poll: Obama trusted more on future of ACA, Medicare; 54 percent expand/keep ACA
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/1002367724


You responded:

It is his fault if his lies have any traction. Where is the CLEAR STATEMENT "Medicare and all Social
programs will not be touched under MY ADMINISTRATION"?


So you ignored the facts in the OP, ignored evidence that the lies aren't gaining traction, and still insisted that "It is his fault if his lies have any traction."

Vincardog

(20,234 posts)
19. IF as you state 'the lies are not getting any traction', why would my opinion of where the fault
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 04:59 PM
Mar 2012

lies, were the lies getting any traction?

Again my statement that "It is his fault if his lies have any traction".

You undertand the conditional aspect of that statement don't you?

You keep putting your words into my mouth and demand that I be responsible for your reactions.

Sorry I can not do that. The only thing I can control or be responsible for is MY action and reaction.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
20. Yes
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:02 PM
Mar 2012
Again my statement that "It is his fault if his lies have any traction".

You undertand the conditional aspect of that statement don't you?


...I do: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=415906

And you still ignored the evidence that the lies were not gaining traction.

Vincardog

(20,234 posts)
21. MY suggestion of how he could combat the lies in the event they did gain traction. That is a demand
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:11 PM
Mar 2012

how exactly? It seems to me that only thing gaining traction here is your inability to allow any comment
on President Obama's style.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
22. Yeah,
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:18 PM
Mar 2012
MY suggestion of how he could combat the lies in the event they did gain traction. That is a demand

how exactly? It seems to me that only thing gaining traction here is your inability to allow any comment
on President Obama's style.

...you were just offering a way to combat the lies. First by stating:

The lies would not stand if BO quit compromising and equivocating

...and following that with:

It is his fault if his lies have any traction. Where is the CLEAR STATEMENT "Medicare and all Social programs will not be touched under MY ADMINISTRATION"?

Again, what does the fact that Mitt Romney is lying about something that already occurred have to do with the President making the pledge you're demanding?


Vincardog

(20,234 posts)
30. When we get "Campaign" Obama back and I am afraid only for as long as the election lasts I has a sad
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:13 AM
Mar 2012

librechik

(30,676 posts)
5. Repubs are desparate to get rid of the ACA Independent Review Board, that will review
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 03:02 PM
Mar 2012

costs and work to lower them. Fuck Them!

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
16. Give me one reason why he would have a limit.
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 04:41 PM
Mar 2012

I've never seen any scum Repuke have a governor on their lying skills.

Johonny

(20,883 posts)
31. Romney doesn't want ppl to know how old he is
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:20 AM
Mar 2012

the whole not taking Medicare on some type of economic principal is just smoke screen. He doesn't want to be contrast as another old Republican going against the young hip Obama.

If Ryan's plan had bipartisan support why isn't it sailing through the house and senate? Because it of course doesn't even have support of a lot of medicare receiving Republicans.

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