Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

solarhydrocan

(551 posts)
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 11:21 AM Dec 2013

Icelanders Overthrow Government and Rewrite Constitution After Banking Fraud-No Word From US Media

Las Vegas Guardian Express
Rebecca Savastio December 2, 2013




Can you imagine participating in a protest outside the White House and forcing the entire U.S. government to resign? Can you imagine a group of randomly chosen private citizens rewriting the U.S. constitution to include measures banning corporate fraud? It seems incomprehensible in the U.S., but Icelanders did just that. Icelanders forced their entire government to resign after a banking fraud scandal, overthrowing the ruling party and creating a citizen’s group tasked with writing a new constitution that offered a solution to prevent corporate greed from destroying the country. The constitution of Iceland was scrapped and is being rewritten by private citizens; using a crowd-sourcing technique via social media channels such as Facebook and Twitter. These events have been going on since 2008, yet there’s been no word from the U.S. mainstream media about any of them. In fact, all of the events that unfolded were recorded by international journalists, overseas news bureaus, citizen journalists and bloggers. This has created current accusations of an intentional cover up of the story by mainstream U.S. news sources.

An “iReport” on CNN, written by a private citizen in May 2012, has questioned the reasons why this revolution has not been widely covered in the U.S., suggesting that perhaps the mainstream media is controlled by large corporate interests and thus has been unwilling to report on Iceland’s activities. That report is currently making its way around social media. CNN today placed a statement on its website saying: “We’ve noticed this iReport is being shared widely on Facebook and Twitter. Please note that this article was posted in May 2012. CNN has not yet verified the claims and we’re working to track down the original writer.” It is interesting to note that CNN’s European version, CNN Europe, already covered the story of the protests and the government’s resignation, leading many to question why CNN would now need to “look into” the claims.

Besides CNN Europe’s own coverage of the scandal, the events in Iceland were widely covered by international media and are easily verified by a simple search on Google which leads to a variety of reputable international news sources that ran numerous stories on the Icelandic revolution. A whole documentary has been made on the governmental overthrow called Pots, Pans and Other Solutions, and now, the conversation is focused on whether or not the citizens’ actions actually worked to make Iceland a more equitable nation.

To understand the enormity of what happened in Iceland, it’s best to draw parallels between the initial banking fraud that caused Iceland’s economy to collapse and the banking fraud in the U.S. that caused the mortgage crisis six years ago...>more
http://guardianlv.com/2013/12/icelanders-overthrow-government-and-rewrite-constitution-after-banking-fraud-no-word-from-us-media/


109 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Icelanders Overthrow Government and Rewrite Constitution After Banking Fraud-No Word From US Media (Original Post) solarhydrocan Dec 2013 OP
well, goodness, we cannot have the average serf thinking s/he actually has the ability and the RIGHT niyad Dec 2013 #1
Yes, I can imagine it ! SamKnause Dec 2013 #2
It would be a second civil War warrant46 Dec 2013 #4
Reply SamKnause Dec 2013 #5
I live in an area that is 70% Repuke and 20% Libertarian and 10% left of center warrant46 Dec 2013 #6
Reply SamKnause Dec 2013 #7
God, Guns and Gays and people whose skin is darker than a paper bag warrant46 Dec 2013 #9
Reply SamKnause Dec 2013 #12
You too !! warrant46 Dec 2013 #24
How true. heaven05 Dec 2013 #15
What does African American self separation have to do with this? FrodosPet Dec 2013 #55
When I was in school tblue Dec 2013 #71
I feel for you... Rockyj Dec 2013 #68
Cold Civil War in progress PeoViejo Dec 2013 #17
Actually, it would be a Second American Revolution. and that's what we need right now!!!!! LongTomH Dec 2013 #20
And they bundled up the Loyalists and sent them to St John NB warrant46 Dec 2013 #28
It's worse than that. lark Dec 2013 #34
Reply SamKnause Dec 2013 #42
Actually both (D) and (R) platforms endorse the TPP solarhydrocan Dec 2013 #47
Oughta call it the Trans-Party Partnership. Eleanors38 Dec 2013 #57
In the meantime most citizens have never even heard of the TPP. Enthusiast Dec 2013 #78
Population of Iceland: 320K struggle4progress Dec 2013 #3
Our original revolution zipplewrath Dec 2013 #14
and the 1776 revolution didn't come from a people totally united solarhydrocan Dec 2013 #48
Not to mention ... frazzled Dec 2013 #18
Not much Ethnic Diversity in Iceland PeoViejo Dec 2013 #19
What does that have to do with the US media ignoring what's happened and is happening there? Fumesucker Dec 2013 #30
IKR? Rex Dec 2013 #35
+320 million n/t solarhydrocan Dec 2013 #51
Because covering Iceland would be the same as covering any medium-small American bluestate10 Dec 2013 #54
Atually, I remember Iceland getting a lot of international coverage when Marr Dec 2013 #64
I dunno. When is the last time one of those cities quakerboy Dec 2013 #103
+ A shit load! nt Enthusiast Dec 2013 #79
Amazing. oldandhappy Dec 2013 #8
Wow. Treant Dec 2013 #10
You don't want to give people ''ideas.'' Octafish Dec 2013 #11
It was supposed to be a Republic PeoViejo Dec 2013 #23
True. We need a Constitution for a Republic. Octafish Dec 2013 #25
It was intended to be a Republic with a great deal of Democracy LongTomH Dec 2013 #27
in all fairness Dustin DeWinde Dec 2013 #38
All we have is the election process and 2 shitty political parties. heaven05 Dec 2013 #13
Many did take to the streets solarhydrocan Dec 2013 #52
Not enough took it to the streets heaven05 Dec 2013 #93
Occupy was a start in that direction mindwalker_i Dec 2013 #16
we ALL need to stop being a bunch of wimps and unite solarhydrocan Dec 2013 #53
I have an answer albino65 Dec 2013 #21
Where do I sign. I've been wanting the House to be dissolved by national referendum or decree ancianita Dec 2013 #96
Sign my petition albino65 Dec 2013 #101
Couldn't find it in either site. Scrolled through 71 petitions on the first; not there. The URL ancianita Dec 2013 #102
the whole thing albino65 Dec 2013 #104
Thanks, but there's an order to using it. It has to be c/p after you click "sign a petition." ancianita Dec 2013 #105
I wish albino65 Dec 2013 #106
Not a problem.Glad to contribute in some small way.I used notehand "copy/paste." Sorry to confuse. ancianita Dec 2013 #107
Not whining albino65 Dec 2013 #108
Oh yeah! You're new! Welcome! I've been here for a few years, but there can be some touchy, ancianita Dec 2013 #109
DU Rec Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2013 #22
If this happened in front of the White House... awoke_in_2003 Dec 2013 #26
Ain't it the truth! n/t truedelphi Dec 2013 #46
Yep. It may as well be a US antiwar protest for all the coverage Corporate States of America valerief Dec 2013 #29
Unfortunately, that constitution has not yet been adopted in Iceland. pampango Dec 2013 #31
Thank you - and, as that points out, the parties in charge during the crash got voted back in muriel_volestrangler Dec 2013 #76
We overthrow Governments all the time...we call them elections. brooklynite Dec 2013 #32
good poinrs Dustin DeWinde Dec 2013 #40
It really doesn't matter if the media reports except in national votes. The states are being changed freshwest Dec 2013 #45
Do you think the events in Iceland are unworthy of notice? Fumesucker Dec 2013 #41
I think the MSM doesn't care about Iceland because the public doesn't care about Iceland... brooklynite Dec 2013 #44
The public doesn't care about Iceland because they haven't heard about Iceland in the media. Enthusiast Dec 2013 #82
It's not as if the OP has correctly informed anyone about the situation muriel_volestrangler Dec 2013 #77
Which means it was not a true revolution treestar Dec 2013 #49
HUMONGOUS K & R !!! WillyT Dec 2013 #33
Not sure what you are celebrating, but cheers anyhow! FrodosPet Dec 2013 #80
Kick. We need to rejuvenate OWS and associated populist Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #36
Well you cannot expect the U.S. Corporate Media to bite the hand Rex Dec 2013 #37
Excellent points. solarhydrocan Dec 2013 #56
This story has been circulated for years. ProSense Dec 2013 #39
Thanks for that treestar Dec 2013 #50
The TPP has been "worked" on for years solarhydrocan Dec 2013 #59
Not sure what point you're making relevant to my comment. ProSense Dec 2013 #60
Wouldn't it have been great if Chris Matthews solarhydrocan Dec 2013 #90
Green for victory!!... SidDithers Dec 2013 #87
^^Icelandic Bankers Sentenced to Prison for Market Abuse WhaTHellsgoingonhere Dec 2013 #97
This is incredibly infuriating... Bold censorship laid bare for all (all who ChisolmTrailDem Dec 2013 #43
"Make No Mistake... only by subsidizing outrageous banker bonuses ..." MannyGoldstein Dec 2013 #58
There are benefits to being a small country. gtar100 Dec 2013 #61
Will we invade and overthrow? upi402 Dec 2013 #62
Nope. Warm stuff. FrodosPet Dec 2013 #66
, blkmusclmachine Dec 2013 #63
Our Congress Dan Dec 2013 #65
the corpo-crabs are too frightened of this news reaching millions here fascisthunter Dec 2013 #67
They'd much rather compare us to Italy and Greece Martin Eden Dec 2013 #69
They may overtake us as the 'Greatest Country in the World'™ tblue Dec 2013 #70
K&R DeSwiss Dec 2013 #72
The 2-Hour economic documentary, "Icelandic Miracle"... nikto Dec 2013 #73
If Iceland gets hit with a 9-point earthquale and tsunami... nikto Dec 2013 #74
Put it on TV. Go ahead, I dare you. Hell, I double-dog dare you. Put it on instead of jtuck004 Dec 2013 #75
I don't think the pain level in the US.. sendero Dec 2013 #81
Buncha people beatin drums in the street and whining about how things are ain't gonna cut it. jtuck004 Dec 2013 #86
I don't disagree.. sendero Dec 2013 #88
Excellent excellent post solarhydrocan Dec 2013 #89
Rome fell from corruption. Internal decay. The rich being morally bankrupt and decadent heaven05 Dec 2013 #94
I didn't say I was giving up <G>. But there's too much magical thinking, jtuck004 Dec 2013 #95
well, I get you heaven05 Dec 2013 #98
I mean, there's a chance we might hit a dry spot and regain control, but that storm jtuck004 Dec 2013 #100
B...b...but they prevented a global-economic meltdown! KansDem Dec 2013 #83
They saved the world like the priest who saved the little boy by giving him communion valerief Dec 2013 #85
+1 accurate indeed solarhydrocan Dec 2013 #91
I really want this to be true.. Notafraidtoo Dec 2013 #84
One of the reasons that the system is so successful is that unplugging from it is very Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #99
BRAVO Icelanders!!! liberalla Dec 2013 #92

niyad

(113,576 posts)
1. well, goodness, we cannot have the average serf thinking s/he actually has the ability and the RIGHT
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 11:31 AM
Dec 2013

to do something when lives and a country are being destroyed.

SamKnause

(13,110 posts)
2. Yes, I can imagine it !
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 11:32 AM
Dec 2013

I think the people in the U.S. are so divided that a move like this would cause a civil war.

The Republican platform is a platform for unregulated global corporations, Christian religion front and center and intertwined with government policies, the proven failure of Trickle down Economics, and discrimination against women and of anyone who isn't white. They want to take this country backwards.

The Democratic platform is a platform for global corporations with strict regulations, strict enforcement of Separation of Church and State, and equality for everyone.

How do you draw up a new Constitution and start a new government with such conflicting ideals ?

SamKnause

(13,110 posts)
5. Reply
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 11:53 AM
Dec 2013

Not sure what your reply infers.

I am well aware that this country has already had a bloody, deadly, civil war.

Maybe I should have stated it would cause another civil war.

warrant46

(2,205 posts)
6. I live in an area that is 70% Repuke and 20% Libertarian and 10% left of center
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 12:05 PM
Dec 2013

These Gomers are itching for the imminent return of Jayzeus.

But before that happens they have some scores to settle

SamKnause

(13,110 posts)
7. Reply
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 12:15 PM
Dec 2013

I live in a Republican Bible Belt district.

Curious as to what scores they have to settle in your area ?

SamKnause

(13,110 posts)
12. Reply
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 12:49 PM
Dec 2013

Thanks for your input and the link.

The paper bag technique is a new one to me.

You learn something new every day.

Hope you have a great day and a safe and Merry Christmas.

warrant46

(2,205 posts)
24. You too !!
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 01:21 PM
Dec 2013

One other thing The local food pantry is feeding 300% more people today than it did 2 years ago.

Monetary Donations are down and the amount of comments about lazy people who don't want to work is astounding.

With a New Take on Poverty ginned up by this jackass

"Limbaugh Compares Welfare Recipients To Wild Animals That Become Dependent On People For Food"

There are plenty of examples of this out there and I will not provide a link to this evil sub humanoid

FrodosPet

(5,169 posts)
55. What does African American self separation have to do with this?
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 09:05 PM
Dec 2013

Sad fact - not only are most whites racists against African Americans of all shades, but many light skinned African Americans have and do look down on darker skinned people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorism#African_Americans

tblue

(16,350 posts)
71. When I was in school
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 01:59 AM
Dec 2013

darker skinned girls used to gang up on me and my sister because we were light. Yes, they came right out and said it to my face. And they were violent. It is just as painful being ostracized for being light. Who can choose their skin color?

 

PeoViejo

(2,178 posts)
17. Cold Civil War in progress
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 01:09 PM
Dec 2013

The Oligarchs have traded their Plantations for Corporations, their Minions in Butternut for Minions of Faux Snooze viewers, but the mindset is still the same. The major difference is that the 99% are the Slaves. There are more Slaves Today, then there ever were under the Confederacy, invisible and slave to Debt.

LongTomH

(8,636 posts)
20. Actually, it would be a Second American Revolution. and that's what we need right now!!!!!
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 01:15 PM
Dec 2013

Edited to add: During the original American Revolution, nearly half the population were people loyal to the British Crown.

warrant46

(2,205 posts)
28. And they bundled up the Loyalists and sent them to St John NB
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 01:44 PM
Dec 2013

What Happened to the Loyalists?

In the end, many Loyalists simply left America. About 80,000 of them fled to Canada or Britain during or just after the war. Because Loyalists were often wealthy, educated, older, and Anglican, the American social fabric was altered by their departure. American history brands them as traitors. But most were just trying to maintain the lifestyles to which they had become accustomed. After all, history is always written by the winners.

lark

(23,156 posts)
34. It's worse than that.
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 02:12 PM
Dec 2013

Our veery own presidents platform on TPP is give away american worker rights and make our country's environmental regulations subject to foreign corporations' profit motives and it puts them in the drivers' seat.

SamKnause

(13,110 posts)
42. Reply
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 02:55 PM
Dec 2013

He has been pushing very hard, to ram that destructive piece of shit trade deal through.

Corporations are 'people', and they are writing all the legislation behind closed doors.

I have been following this issue closely.

It disgusts me !!!!

Thanks for your reply and input.

Have a great day and safe holidays to you and yours.

solarhydrocan

(551 posts)
47. Actually both (D) and (R) platforms endorse the TPP
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 08:44 PM
Dec 2013

Democratic Party Platform
http://www.democrats.org/democratic-national-platform

We remain committed to finding more markets for American-made goods—including using the Trans-Pacific Partnership between the United States and eight countries in the Asia-Pacific...

Republican Party Platform
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=101961

Because American workers have shown that, on a truly level playing field, they can surpass the competition in international trade, we call for the restoration of presidential Trade Promotion Authority. It will ensure up or down votes in Congress on any new trade agreements, without meddling by special interests. A Republican President will complete negotiations for a Trans-Pacific Partnership to open rapidly developing Asian markets to U.S. products. Beyond that, we envision a worldwide multilateral agreement among nations committed to the principles of open markets, what has been called a "Reagan Economic Zone," in which free trade will truly be fair trade for all concerned.

How do you draw up a new Constitution and start a new government with such conflicting ideals ?


A new Constitution isn't needed, we just need to enforce the present one and re instate laws like Glass–Steagall.

It's possible the American people could unite over things like the Banker rape. Occupy was a sign- it included people from both parties and no parties.

struggle4progress

(118,350 posts)
3. Population of Iceland: 320K
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 11:43 AM
Dec 2013

So Iceland has about as many people as the city of Aurora CO, the city of Santa Ana CA, or the city of St Louis MO

I expect it's rather easier to get a large fraction of 320K people organized, compared to (say) a population a thousand times that size

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
14. Our original revolution
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 12:59 PM
Dec 2013

What they've done isn't all that far from our original revolution. That population probably isn't all that far off from the population of British settlers in the colonies after the revolution. Their "social networking site" was also known as the "pub" or "tavern".

And by the by, those guys didn't like corporations much either.

solarhydrocan

(551 posts)
48. and the 1776 revolution didn't come from a people totally united
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 08:48 PM
Dec 2013

1/3 supported the revolution, 1/3 didn't care and 1/3 supported the existing system.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
18. Not to mention ...
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 01:09 PM
Dec 2013

87.1% of Icelanders are Lutheran. How's that for consensus building!

You really do need to consider the homogeneity of the society (which helps to mobilize opinion, as opposed to the difficulty of doing so in countries with a far greater diversity).

 

PeoViejo

(2,178 posts)
19. Not much Ethnic Diversity in Iceland
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 01:11 PM
Dec 2013

It makes it easier to get folks on the same page when almost everyone is related.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
30. What does that have to do with the US media ignoring what's happened and is happening there?
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 01:51 PM
Dec 2013

Because the M$M media virtual blackout of political events in Iceland was the subject of the OP, not the size of the population.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
35. IKR?
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 02:17 PM
Dec 2013

Funny how the excuses roll out that have nothing to do with the OP! I think some might be feeling a little guilty for living in a country that screens their news so that they can live like content sheeple.

U.S. Corporate Media refuses to bite their paymasters, anyone that makes excuses for them is living in denial.

bluestate10

(10,942 posts)
54. Because covering Iceland would be the same as covering any medium-small American
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 09:00 PM
Dec 2013

city. How often does Tucson or Fort Myers, Florida get covered, even when there is significant government upheaval in those cities?

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
64. Atually, I remember Iceland getting a lot of international coverage when
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 10:14 PM
Dec 2013

it was being promoted as a free-wheeling banking paradise, and a sign of things to come. I remember one report in particular-- about how the Icelanders were uniquely suited to the new 'innovation-oriented' financial industry, because they had a long traditional of entertaining themselves through the cold winters with math games... lol.

Somehow, they stopped being a beacon to the future when they started cracking down on the financial industry.

quakerboy

(13,921 posts)
103. I dunno. When is the last time one of those cities
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 05:54 PM
Dec 2013

threw out their entire government, started over, and put in place corporate antifraud rules?

Treant

(1,968 posts)
10. Wow.
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 12:38 PM
Dec 2013

I would so go out with that entire country. If it plays its cards right, there might be a bit more than a first date kiss, too.

 

PeoViejo

(2,178 posts)
23. It was supposed to be a Republic
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 01:18 PM
Dec 2013

Like Ancient Rome, the Republic was cast aside and those advocating War, greater Sphere of Influence and the prospect of Booty, won out over Law, Reason and Civility.

I suggest the books: Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Gibbon to see the parallels of Today.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
25. True. We need a Constitution for a Republic.
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 01:32 PM
Dec 2013

That seems to have gone out the window, of late, especially when it comes to putting the banksters into the equal justice under law part.

LongTomH

(8,636 posts)
27. It was intended to be a Republic with a great deal of Democracy
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 01:37 PM
Dec 2013

....at least that was the intent of Thomas Jefferson and others of the Founding Fathers. I would refer you to The Federalist Papers and the various commentators, or just read anything by Thom Hartmann.

Dustin DeWinde

(193 posts)
38. in all fairness
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 02:32 PM
Dec 2013

The prospect of booty wins out against almost anything. And if its bodacious booty, its.not even a close contest.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
13. All we have is the election process and 2 shitty political parties.
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 12:56 PM
Dec 2013

Granted one slightly less shitty than the other. Unless hundreds of thousands take to the streets, it's a fantasy to believe we would see bankers and wall street minions tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
93. Not enough took it to the streets
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 12:03 PM
Dec 2013

When I returned to this country in the late 60's, after my stint overseas, I and many others took to the streets. Many times. When the shrub entered office and 9/11 happened, the Patriot Act made cowards out of americans. I know what active dissent is, Cointelpro happened in my day, but we DID NOT COWER! Occupy was infiltrated and spied upon, but it has not stopped the movement. NSA,FBI? Shitheads in suits. Yea they can hurt us, kill us, torture us, imprison us but not all people with an open mind, wide open eyes and a conscience can be denied. The civil rights movement proved that.

mindwalker_i

(4,407 posts)
16. Occupy was a start in that direction
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 01:02 PM
Dec 2013

Thepowers in this country used every tool at their disposal to stop occupy from doing what the Icelanders did including violence, and I'd bet anything that they used psyops heavily. Because that's what this country is really good at: advertising - a form of psyops - and it's probably being used in many ways to form public opinion, keep people from demanding action against corporate fraud, and keeping them from protesting or rioting when we find out just how much fraud is occurring or how deeply our government is involved in it.

Maybe I'm just trying to find a reason why people don't give a fuck about stuff when in reality, we're all a bunch of wimps who say, "oh well," and go back to watching TV.

solarhydrocan

(551 posts)
53. we ALL need to stop being a bunch of wimps and unite
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 08:58 PM
Dec 2013

or we will lose everything that America has stood for in the past and allow our descendents to become slaves to corporations.

Is that possible? Sure! Probable? There's a super bowl coming up

 

albino65

(484 posts)
21. I have an answer
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 01:16 PM
Dec 2013

Whereas, the current United States House of Representatives has become impotent and incapable of pursuing their duties as set forth in the Constitution:

Whereas, collectively the House of Representatives has acted in malfeasance in office by egregiously not performing their duties as set forth in the Constitution and acted with great negligence and carelessness in performing their duties:

Whereas, collectively the House of Representatives has acted in nonfeasance in office by not acting on legislation or obstructing legislation before them for more than the last four years:

Whereas the American people by overwhelmingly electing Barack Obama President of the United States expect the platform on which he ran be implemented:

We The People petition the President of the United States to:

Declare that the United States is in a state of emergency.

Dissolve the House of Representatives, and evict them and their staff from federal property.

Instruct the states to hold general elections immediately to replace their representation in congress within 1 month on the condition that no currently sitting congressman or former congressman or senator be eligible to run.

Assign members of the Senate to fill in for the congressmen on their committees or appoint citizens to run those committees.

Furthermore, we petition that this be acted on now using federal troops if necessary.

Signed: We The People

(the Teabaggers are so fond of using "We The People", I thought we could use it also. After all, there are more of us than them.)

ancianita

(36,137 posts)
96. Where do I sign. I've been wanting the House to be dissolved by national referendum or decree
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 03:41 PM
Dec 2013

for the longest. Set the US Marshals at all entrances to the Capitol and refuse entrance by any House congressional personnel. They can't have access to their office materials until they present certified copies of their letters of resignation to their states.

 

albino65

(484 posts)
101. Sign my petition
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 05:18 PM
Dec 2013

I actually submitted this petition to the We the People section of the White House web site. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/
I had to abbreviate it because I was too wordy. I tend to get that way.

The URL of my petition is
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/declare-united-

states-state-emergency/fqKq5ZXR

It might be interesting if this gets off the ground. I need 150 signatures to have this petition be searchable on the We The People tool on WhiteHouse.gov

ancianita

(36,137 posts)
102. Couldn't find it in either site. Scrolled through 71 petitions on the first; not there. The URL
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 05:52 PM
Dec 2013

site shows a 404 Page Not Found error.

It says, "The page you're looking for is currently unavailable to view
We've been upgrading our site. It is possible that this page has been moved or renamed. You can use your browser's Back button to return to the previous page, go to the homepage, or you can browse or search for the information you're looking for..."

I tried. Please keep us posted when it's back up. It's a GREAT idea that people will get behind, what with Congress having the absolute lowest popularity polls in history.


 

albino65

(484 posts)
104. the whole thing
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 06:37 PM
Dec 2013

You have to put in the whole URL:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/declare-united-states-state-emergency/fqKq5ZXR

I tried it just now so I know it works. I think there are embedded spaces if it's not all one line. Try copying and pasting the above URL. I'll edit things so it works.


ancianita

(36,137 posts)
105. Thanks, but there's an order to using it. It has to be c/p after you click "sign a petition."
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 08:36 PM
Dec 2013

Anyway, Done. That's the main thing. There were 99,000 signatures when I put mine in. Cool beans.

 

albino65

(484 posts)
106. I wish
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 08:42 PM
Dec 2013

The 99,000 is how many I have to go until 100,000. After 100,000 signatures the White House has to answer the petition. Spread the word and keep the faith.
What do you mean c/p after you click "sign a petition"
At any rate, thanks for your help.

ancianita

(36,137 posts)
107. Not a problem.Glad to contribute in some small way.I used notehand "copy/paste." Sorry to confuse.
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 08:51 PM
Dec 2013

One reason people don't sign more WH petitions is that the login system seems glitchy. I'm an avid password user. I carefully record each and every password I use for different sites, and this site STILL claimed that I'd used the 'incorrect' password and asked if I'd forgotten blahblah... annoying. I've been registered with whitehouse.gov for over a year, and have never been given such a hard time.

Okay. TMI. I'll stop whining now.

 

albino65

(484 posts)
108. Not whining
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 08:58 PM
Dec 2013

It's venting, and it's healthy.
I'm easily confused.
Have a good weekend and it's nice to find a friend on D/U.

ancianita

(36,137 posts)
109. Oh yeah! You're new! Welcome! I've been here for a few years, but there can be some touchy,
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 09:39 PM
Dec 2013

types here. The spirit is SO pro-Democrat and so progressive. I've learned tons, and I've always considered myself a political junkie.

Have fun. But lurk a lot. Somewhere down each thread is inevitably someone who's laugh-out-loud funny and someone who really, really knows their shit and articulates a stunning analysis.

Enjoy!

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
26. If this happened in front of the White House...
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 01:33 PM
Dec 2013

or Capitol Building, the storm troopers would be dispatched to bust heads.

valerief

(53,235 posts)
29. Yep. It may as well be a US antiwar protest for all the coverage Corporate States of America
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 01:47 PM
Dec 2013

will give it.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
31. Unfortunately, that constitution has not yet been adopted in Iceland.
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 02:01 PM
Dec 2013

In spite of clear popular support, Iceland's new crowd-sourced constitution was recently killed by politicians. An ex-member of the constitutional council sheds some light on what happened - and why there might still be some hope for this unique experiment.

Nevertheless, the referendum was delayed until October 2012. Voter turnout was 49 percent. No less than 67 percent of the electorate declared their support for the bill as well as for its key individual provisions such as national ownership of natural resources (83 percent said Yes) and equal voting rights, meaning one person, one vote (67 percent said Yes). By inviting the voters to accept or reject the bill in toto (specifically, the first question on the ballot was: “Do you want the proposals of the Constitutional Council to form the basis of a legislative bill for a new Constitution?&quot as well as its key individual provisions, the parliamentary majority was able to say to the bill’s opponents: Look, the voters support both the bill as a whole and its key provisions. In view of the results, parliament decided to suggest only changes of wording where considered necessary and to abstain from substantive changes (except concerning the church where the voters did not accept the formulation in the bill). The people had spoken.

Further obstacles

The path forward, however, proved tricky. Three of the seven members of the constitutional committee which had been fairly unanimous in its work criticized the bill, unmoved by the result of the referendum, conducting themselves ex post like agents of the parliamentary opposition to the bill. The majority of four is known to support the bill and to respect the result of the referendum. A committee of lawyers asked by parliament to suggest only changes of wording went beyond its mandate by, among other things, suggesting substantive changes to the natural resource clause in a poorly disguised attempt to thwart the intent of the constitutional council and the will of the voters as expressed in the referendum. The council had made it clear in its proposed constitutional provision as well as in its supporting documents that the allocation of fishing quotas does not bestow on the recipients of such allocations any private property rights to the common-property resources. To its credit, the parliamentary committee in charge restored the council’s original formulation.

One day, most probably, the constitutional bill approved by the people of Iceland in the 2012 referendum or a similar one will become the law of the land. Stay tuned.

http://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europe-make-it/thorvaldur-gylfason/democracy-on-ice-post-mortem-of-icelandic-constitution

muriel_volestrangler

(101,361 posts)
76. Thank you - and, as that points out, the parties in charge during the crash got voted back in
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 06:33 AM
Dec 2013

so the "Iceland underwent massive changes" claims really aren't true.

They did convict some of the people who were in charge of one of their big banks yesterday, though, which is good - see http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024167933 .

brooklynite

(94,737 posts)
32. We overthrow Governments all the time...we call them elections.
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 02:04 PM
Dec 2013

I'm happy to credit the Icelanders with a populist approach to rewriting their Constitution, but the rest is hyperbole. Iceland has a Parliamentary Government which, like many others, can be dissolved in advance of scheduled elections. Popular pressure and opposition forced the Government to fall and new elections to be called. It's called Democracy.

Dustin DeWinde

(193 posts)
40. good poinrs
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 02:50 PM
Dec 2013

What you say is true, but it doesn't explain why our American media refuses to report the story.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
45. It really doesn't matter if the media reports except in national votes. The states are being changed
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 04:24 PM
Dec 2013
from the school house, the parks, the roads, the hospitals one by one. People that are involved and talk face to face without benefit of the media do these things 365 days a year.

We don't talk about it on the net as we get our cues from the media stories that are easily transfered to texts and pixels. There are revolutions in states and cities now. It depends on who shows up, not how they are portrayed.


In my area, we have full social services, parks, new public schools, help for emigrants, we know what is going on, it's quite transparent. We literally vote on how the schools will function and how the utility will be run, and all of that. We have found out what ALEC was doing, what corporations were doing with elections, called those who took the money and were screwing us and put a stop to it.

We support unions, public transportation and alternative power and we pay for them. We vote repeatedly all year, and most of those are for tax increases to fund what we think makes for a good society and public workers. We have guns but don't threaten others in public.

We are against inserting religion in government and we voted for marriage equality and protect women's rights to choice and equal pay. We welcome emigrants and do all we can to integrate them into our society, providing them translators for all functions. Our elections are clean and there is no call to shut people out of the vote, in fact our government goes out of its way to guarantee the right to vote to everyone.

Go to another state and a city, and those who show up, and for the last decade it's been GOP corporate activists, and the Tea Party, who turn the schools creationist, charter, private, eliminate all social services, privatize to hand over land and infrastructure and let theology rule, run around like rootin' tootin' cowboys, and you have red state hell. They welcome the Koch brothers as their heroes, think ALEC is great and theocracy is their goal.

They think paying taxes is a sin. For them, public transportation is worthless as are the poor and emigrant, gays and others, and hate labor and public workers, take away equal pay and refuse women the right to choose, and punish emigrants for being in their borders and scream that they should be deported or learn to speak English. Their governments work to deny the vote to everyone they can, save the GOP Tea Party.

There is already a movement to rewrite the Constitution from the right. Paul Ryan wants to get enough states red to call within their state legislators for a Constitutional convention, and they can do it. That's why we see these stories lauding Iceland to encourage it here. Ryan has stated their intent is to eliminate the 14th amendment, but it won't stop there, once the rightwingers get their hands in the Constitutional toolbox.

Anyone who respects the 14th and what it has given us, which is more than the 4th, with Due Process, Birthright Citizenship and Equal Treatment Under the Law has grown up in a society that has protections seldome seen in the world. But it took a Civil War to get and then the 15th and 16th to perfect it; plus another to get women and 18 year olds the right to vote.

Anyone who comprehends how hard it was to get these rights, does not want these fascists to have access to the power to steal them, which they have proven they intend to do.

The Tenther Movement wants to eliminate everything after the 10th, and we have not lived under that system for centuries. It's the perfect divide and conquer and set up state wide fiefdoms. Others would return to the Articles of Confederation. We have to consider that they did not touch on slavery and many other crimes.

That is why these gleeful calls to the attack the Bastille leave me cold. The powers infringing on us now are the primary voices calling for a revolution. From the right. A regressive revolution, and some are in denial that would happen. We have seen it with the election of Nixon, Reagan and Bush. Just think what they would do, the party of the fabled quote of the 'Constitution is just a piece of paper' when called out for war, torture and rendition.

We have the best system if we will fill the offices and do the ground work and not expect chaos to suddenly not turn into a utopian vision. It won't, it has not done so historically. It will lead to strong man governance, it always does.

I've listened to Birchers my entire life call for the evil government to be taken down for some pure vision they have. They are not gone, they are the Tea Party and the Koch brothers and others are very serious about creating that. They want to restrict by birth the personal and economic mobility for those they don't consider to be worthy of those rights, and we see that in deep red states now.

Based on years of seeing these things in action, reading and realizing that what feels good at first, is touted widely at first, ends up tasting very bad.



JMHO.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
41. Do you think the events in Iceland are unworthy of notice?
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 02:51 PM
Dec 2013

That was the point of the OP, the M$M is performing a virtual blackout of political events in Iceland.

brooklynite

(94,737 posts)
44. I think the MSM doesn't care about Iceland because the public doesn't care about Iceland...
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 03:05 PM
Dec 2013

...or about foreign constitutional restructuring, or foreign banking reforms.

If the story doesn't have a direct bearing on the US (and "Iceland's banking rules are better than our" isn't adequate), it's not likely to be covered under any circumstances.

Bottom line: the average American doesn't read political blogs, or watch BBC News or Al-Jazeera. The media for the most part gives the public the stories that will draw an audience to their advertisers.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
82. The public doesn't care about Iceland because they haven't heard about Iceland in the media.
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 07:37 AM
Dec 2013

Here in the US we got the fake story about the poor people causing the economic failure. The fake story was all over the media.

The true story, one of massive malfeasance and bank fraud, was not all over the media. And THAT is the point. It was, and continues to be, a media blackout with a purpose.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,361 posts)
77. It's not as if the OP has correctly informed anyone about the situation
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 06:43 AM
Dec 2013

As the link in #31 points out, the new constitution has not been put into law, and the same coalition that was in charge from 1995 to 2007 (and which also included the Independence Party, the party to which Geir Haarde, the PM from 2007 to 2009, belonged) was voted back in in 2013.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
49. Which means it was not a true revolution
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 08:48 PM
Dec 2013

But just a change of government pursuant to the Parliamentary system.

FrodosPet

(5,169 posts)
80. Not sure what you are celebrating, but cheers anyhow!
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 07:20 AM
Dec 2013


BTW: It wasn't the misleading O.P. was it? Did you see the links about "Meet the new boss...same as the old boss" in Iceland, right?

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
37. Well you cannot expect the U.S. Corporate Media to bite the hand
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 02:21 PM
Dec 2013

that feeds them! Besides, it is well established that they have decided we are sheeple and content with living in our bubble as long as they feed us a few warm & fuzzy stories from home. Why would they report any of that? Their Wall Street paymasters would never allow it!

And here we make fun of Russia for having a closed media...seems ours is eager to follow.

solarhydrocan

(551 posts)
56. Excellent points.
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 09:06 PM
Dec 2013

we have become the USSR that we all were taught to hate. And which cost us a half billion dollars a year to "defend" against

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
39. This story has been circulated for years.
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 02:37 PM
Dec 2013

solarhydrocan

(551 posts)
59. The TPP has been "worked" on for years
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 09:29 PM
Dec 2013

Not much talk of that either

Glass–Steagall has been repealed since 1999

How has that worked out?

Do you think nothing should be done about those who caused the recession/depression? Perhaps printing up ~$80 billion per month isn't enough. $100 billion? Why not a trillion? We could all work for them the rest of our lives. And our children too. How does that sound?

Debt slavery isn't a nice thing to do to future generations. Many don't care because they won't be around.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
60. Not sure what point you're making relevant to my comment.
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 09:33 PM
Dec 2013

"Icelanders Overthrow Government" = BS

It was a simple FYI

Otherwise, carry on.

solarhydrocan

(551 posts)
90. Wouldn't it have been great if Chris Matthews
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 09:16 AM
Dec 2013

had asked what Obama thought of what Iceland is trying to do?

 

ChisolmTrailDem

(9,463 posts)
43. This is incredibly infuriating... Bold censorship laid bare for all (all who
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 02:55 PM
Dec 2013

keep themselves informed despite a shitty media) to see.

I have launched a withering Twitter campaign against @msnbc on #msnbc and other channels. I invite all on DU to join me in this campaign on Twitter, Facebook, and anywhere else you like to hang out.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
58. "Make No Mistake... only by subsidizing outrageous banker bonuses ..."
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 09:16 PM
Dec 2013

"Can we end outrageous banker bonuses...

Right Jamie? Right Lloyd? I did a good job, right?"

gtar100

(4,192 posts)
61. There are benefits to being a small country.
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 09:49 PM
Dec 2013

If our States were each a country, other than the chaos in relations, the centers of political life for individuals would be more reachable for each country's citizens. Unity of purpose in demonstrations would be easier to achieve. There wouldn't necessarily be a great swath of other people who don't give a hoot about our concerns *and* have voting equality with us. OWS was a tremendous effort but if it was just New York about New York, they might have be able to achieve the same thing Iceland did. I just find the comparisons between the US and other countries a little skewed.

Dan

(3,580 posts)
65. Our Congress
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 10:16 PM
Dec 2013

has no shame, so not sure if you could get them to resign...even if the everyone in the nation wanted them tooo...

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
67. the corpo-crabs are too frightened of this news reaching millions here
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 12:26 AM
Dec 2013

their ideals are shit without propaganda and censorship, and they know it. Sniveling lick-spittel losers.

Martin Eden

(12,875 posts)
69. They'd much rather compare us to Italy and Greece
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 01:12 AM
Dec 2013

The worst nightmare for the owners of this country would be for the American people to throw off the shackles like the Icelanders did.

tblue

(16,350 posts)
70. They may overtake us as the 'Greatest Country in the World'™
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 01:49 AM
Dec 2013

I really think we aren't anymore except in (some of) our minds.

 

nikto

(3,284 posts)
73. The 2-Hour economic documentary, "Icelandic Miracle"...
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 04:34 AM
Dec 2013

will be coming out on FoxNooz, any day now.



















(And monkeys have been flying out of my butt all day)

 

nikto

(3,284 posts)
74. If Iceland gets hit with a 9-point earthquale and tsunami...
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 04:41 AM
Dec 2013

Then we know the HAAARP machine is at work.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
75. Put it on TV. Go ahead, I dare you. Hell, I double-dog dare you. Put it on instead of
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 05:16 AM
Dec 2013

The Voice, or Dancing with the Stars.

THEN you will see millions of people outside the buildings of our government demanding change.

Feel free to tell me I'm wrong, but it's one thing to live in servitude to the financiers, and another to lose access to cable tv. People would then be forced to think, to confront the life they have built around themselves, and they would rather fight than switch it off.

You want American riots and mobs in numbers that truly mean something? Take away their cable...

Regardless of the fact that we are circling the drain by nearly any measure, most people really don't give a flying rat's ass about banks, finance, politics in general, etc. Many are going to wind up with no money, no safety net, surrounding a few islands of wealth who they support with the little they make, in a country that's in far worse shape than many other nations who are deliberately investing in their future.



sendero

(28,552 posts)
81. I don't think the pain level in the US..
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 07:27 AM
Dec 2013

.... has risen quite enough to force the people to act en mass. The problem here is that even though our economy is on it's knees, most people are doing ok. Many more should be worried (about keeping their jobs) but they are not smart/informed enough to worry.

Americans have gotten used to (and were trained to) letting Washington take care of itself. The idea of individuals coming together to effect serious change is lost from our collective vocabularies. Folks who demand change or reform are marginalized in the media, and that marginalization works well.

If you would have told me 30 years ago that we'd get to this sorry state I would have literally laughed in your face. The changes have come swiftly since 911, too swiftly for most folks to really understand what is happening.

There is not a guaranteed good outcome here. Not at all, but there are small signs that a small critical mass of people are getting it and getting tired of it. All I can say is thank god for the internet - without it it would already be game over.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
86. Buncha people beatin drums in the street and whining about how things are ain't gonna cut it.
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 08:22 AM
Dec 2013

What's the plan?

What, specifically, needs to be done? Investment in people, in education, in infrastructure? Nobody has a freakin' clue. They don't know enough. No one is seriously contemplating a country with no growth, because they can't even conceptualize it yet. We have never had to be that in our history, but all the places and things and people we used to exploit are no longer dependent on us. Where, then, do we find someone to screw over, except ourselves?

The consumers are 70% of this economy, and they have no money to spend that isn't borrowed. The job growth, as pitiful as it is, is very little more than an increase in people who serve hamburgers or make beds in motels which reflects the increase in our population from births and immigration.

We are doing relatively little to move ourselves into the future, while other countries are constantly investing in theirs. One example - we have people on one side jumping up and down about Mexicans flooding across the border illegally even though our experience is that they will help us become a stronger country as they get employed. On the other side are people jumping up and down to legalize immigration, even though the CBO says it is going to increase unemployment for a decade. In the meantime, however, Mexico and business people are investing in the education of people who live there, even paying people there to go to school so they can hire them. On this side we have taken schools, like Berkeley, for instance, where the tuition used to be free, and raised it to $14K a year, and in so doing have amassed nearly a trillion dollars in debt for students that will follow them to their graves, since only 50% are being hired in a job market where there are 3 people for every opening. Walmart opens the doors for 600 jobs and gets 26,000 applications, and we know massive numbers of their employees can only work there if the rest of us pay for their food, a subsidy to Walmart.

The job market is such that if one is 50 and unemployed, they are likely not going to see enough money to have any disposable income or savings, and will have to struggle until, and if, they can get to 62 where they have to take a smaller piece of their Social Security and will nothing else in the bank for retirement. And at that point they will live in poverty for the rest of their lives. And that is going to be the story for tens of millions of people.

Meanwhile we are paying criminals at the banks $85 billion a month, and they are letting that pile up at the Fed while we pay them interest on it, and they reported record earnings this year.

Wtf?

Both parties are destroying what was, and the most vociferous and radical cheerleaders for each side are driving the bus back and forth across the road like drunken sailors, over the top of everyone else.

Lets say some magic dust falls on everyone's heads and they get a clue - what is the plan for taking an economy which used to be based on growth and moving it forward based on no growth. None, relatively speaking. We are a net debtor to the rest of the world. We are spending time pawing at the shiny stuff like our national debt, when what we ought to be literally screaming about is the trade imbalance. To fix that is going to require at least 30-50 trillion dollars, just to get us back even with where we were 10 or 15 years ago. It would be a decade or more before we could even hope to make progress toward that, and that is if we started today. But it's not even on the table.

We are literally moving backwards for the first time in this country's history, with no foundation at all, and I think the majority of our 300+ million people simply refuse to acknowledge what is in front of their face. We have been floating this country on loans and borrowed money while the wealthy sell off our assets since roughly 1980, and when this little financial mirage that we have been running on debt comes apart, so will we.

I think it is already game over, and no one wants to realize that there may be nothing we can do to stop it. We are just waiting on the precipitating event, whatever that may be, and then...

But I may be too optimistic

sendero

(28,552 posts)
88. I don't disagree..
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 08:33 AM
Dec 2013

... with much you have said. We ARE farther along the path to failure than most people realize or would admit if they did.

In my personal life, I have taken many steps to try to insulate myself against a "collapse". Just what a "collapse" entails is not easy to define, some think pandemonium in the streets and total anarchy, others (like me really) think the 30s depression on steroids, with soup lines and Hoovervilles everywhere.

But this is not a pre-ordained eventuality IMHO there is still the possibility of avoiding it. Or maybe I'm too optimistic

solarhydrocan

(551 posts)
89. Excellent excellent post
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 09:12 AM
Dec 2013
what is the plan for taking an economy which used to be based on growth and moving it forward based on no growth


Exactly. Perhaps the ideas of decentralization and self sufficiency, starting locally could help. Everything that can be done locally and nationally should be. Starting with food and things everyone needs- shoes, clothing-etc. If someone wants to buy a shirt made in Vietnam or chickens from China let them- but put a tariff on it. And energy- nothing has been done in 40 years to really address the problem but it can be solved- and jobs created. Jobs that don't involve huge tax sheltered corporations drilling holes into the earth and injecting chemical soup for some gas.

And how is it that a maid barely earning enough to make a living has to pay any federal tax at all while giants like Apple and Verizon pay ZERO? This is pure insanity.

Large companies find ways to a zero tax rate

Despite widespread groans about the recent disclosure that Apple is finding ways to cut its federal tax bill, an analysis shows the computer giant is one of scores of corporations largely dodging the taxman.

A surprising number of companies in the Standard & Poor's 500, 57, have found ways to pay effective tax rates of zero, according to a USA TODAY analysis of data from S&P Capital IQ....
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/10/23/big-companies-pay-no-taxes/2480281/


Also-Blowing trillions of borrowed money invading Iraq and Afghanistan hasn't helped. Just creating more enemies. Imagine those trillions invested in infrastructure and energy and manufacturing. There was apparently plenty of money to invade Syria too. Bollocks!


Meanwhile we are paying criminals at the banks $85 billion a month, and they are letting that pile up at the Fed while we pay them interest on it, and they reported record earnings this year.


Bingo. Why isn't the Government printing their own money? Money should be a public utility. The constitution provides for that, no laws would even have to be changed.
 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
94. Rome fell from corruption. Internal decay. The rich being morally bankrupt and decadent
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 12:15 PM
Dec 2013

being overreaching in it's imperialistic conquests. It might be too late, but to cower in the corner, well...........the precedent has, historically, been set many times. We might just be at a place where no amount of citizen outrage can right the ship of state. But I didn't give up in the 60's-70's, won't give up now.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
95. I didn't say I was giving up <G>. But there's too much magical thinking,
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 03:28 PM
Dec 2013

too little recognizing what is doing it's best to slap us in the face.

I lived through all that, so when I say this is different from the 60's - early 70's, I mean in a really harsh and dangerous way. Back then our parents and grandparents were working, women were increasing their numbers in the workforce which would give us one of our last great economic pushes, people had money in retirement, changes to social programs were helping curb poverty, people were marching against the war, racism, authoritarianism, and sometimes just because they liked the boy or girl they just met (well, ok, that last one hasn't changed). Homes were being bought, paid off, sold, and a lot of people had enough money in the bank when they retired to live for a couple of decades. The economy was mostly healthy, people still had extra money to spend on "things", and we had not yet entered the period in which most of our assets had been sold off and the country put into servitude to the wealthy. We could go to, and create, food kitchens, because there was such a largess of things to choose from, and, unlike today, they were always stocked and full. People had unemployment, schools were relatively cheap, etc. There was an economy which allowed for all that, but more important people were emboldened by the fact that they COULD go experiment with things such as new architecture, forms of business, drugs, whatever, and there would still be at least a place they could get in out of the rain and eat.

This is not that world.

Now everyone is up to their ears in debt, and government policies are such that it is encouraging us to take out more so we will be even more beholden to the the financiers. People are scared, frightened, not like they were back then. We are dragging children off to jail from their classrooms, and mostly non-violent protests are being met with harsh measures from a far more militaristic police force.

The assets we lived on back then are gone, the majority of people, if they are working, are mostly just managing to make enough to insure that interest is paid to the wealthy, and tens of millions of those outside of the 50 million who live in poverty have nothing in the bank, and it's even a question as to whether they will even have enough Social Security to eat on, much less keep them out of poverty.

And people are SURE it's going to get better. It must, because it used to be better, right? What utter bullshit. It's magical thinking. They might as well be praying to the spaghetti monster to save them.

The wealthy have taught themselves finance, they go after assets to own, they operate them for their own benefit. They have been allowed to put a pridcfe on EVERYTHING. We have even cut off access to learning for many people in the ways that built this country, and both political parties are helping the wealthy in their quest. The response from most of the rest of the country is to watch more cable tv.

We need to be not only recognizing that there is a problem, but finding ways to educate and train ourselves, gain assets, find ways to live without debt and without helping the wealthy in their quest of living from the servitude of everyone else.

But as yet I see too little in the way of a plan to do so. I haven't given up, but when the car is out of control on the ice and you are sliding to your doom, and you are still turning the wheels the way the back end is swinging so you can regain control, you may, at some point, realize that, although you still have hope, you still haven't given up, you are still trying, that despite your best efforts you are going to crash and burn, and there is nothing you can do about it.

But you keep steering, foot off the gas...

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
100. I mean, there's a chance we might hit a dry spot and regain control, but that storm
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 04:50 PM
Dec 2013

has coated the road with nearly certain death, and it's been raging a long, long time now.

So we will see...

valerief

(53,235 posts)
85. They saved the world like the priest who saved the little boy by giving him communion
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 08:08 AM
Dec 2013

after he'd raped the kid.

I know the analogy is crude, but it's accurate.

Notafraidtoo

(402 posts)
84. I really want this to be true..
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 07:50 AM
Dec 2013

But i am afraid it is only half true, the rewriting of the constitution is cool and the best part of this story but it is horribly stalled, whats really going on here and makes this a sad story is that the IMF is forcing Iceland into submission. Its a war of attrition and even intelligent Icelanders who don't have low attention spans are becoming exhausted.

Lets hope everything i just said is bullshit but after reading lots of Iceland coverage this is what i came up with.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
99. One of the reasons that the system is so successful is that unplugging from it is very
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 04:11 PM
Dec 2013

difficult and dangerous. Iceland is small enough that they might be allowed to escape, but probably not because if they were allowed to, it would give other people ideas and that is the nightmare scenario from the perspective of the people that matter.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Icelanders Overthrow Gove...