If the school is not open to everyone, then it is not public. Lord, I hope there is a way to use this ruling to get rid of those awful things. Maybe they screwed the pooch on this one already by their greed. Hope parents wake up and take a firm hand in education because they've been lied to quite a bit.

Last edited Sat Dec 14, 2013, 04:26 PM - Edit history (1)

The charter schools here in washington would be open to everyone.
The reason it got knocked down is the state constitution specifies that the school must be under the control
of the voters... not private interests.
Ultimately, this was a fight to siphon away funding from public schools into for-profit coffers.

ALL of the case law says this is so.

Let's not make excuses for them. They are scams and unnecessary.

if charter schools are open to everyone. I dont think that behavior problem children last long there. Also, can children go to charter schools if they cant pay?

children with any kind of special needs don't often last long at charter schools.

Technically in most places, anyone can apply. But the real questions are: do they get accepted? and are they allowed to stay if they aren't likely to test well?

But my experience after my short tenure at a continuation/remedial high school was this:

Charter schools can be run by the school district. They are often pet projects of an administrator. We had one in our district which was called a "technology" high school. All the kids were given laptops, all the rooms had $15k white boards, everything was supposed to be state of the art.

The outcome was--

1) NO new computers or technology at any other school site that year and very reduced monies the following year. Charter schools are meant to be flashy and impressive and they are huge resource hogs. They siphon badly needed resources from all the other schools. So you have a small percentage of students on top of the line computers and the rest of the schools the children are working on donated computers where the OS is so outdated it can't connect to the internet.

2) Because this school is run so differently than other schools in the district, everything must be specially catered. That means a special staff and extremely expensive "consultants" (which is how the private sector got their foot in the door in the first place.) This was an economically challenged district and six-figure salaries for consultants who basically came in with a lot of power point presentations was another waste of precious monies.

3) School administrator uses this as a stepping to a better job. New administrator comes in, abandons old guy's pet project in favor of a new one to pad his or her resume: charter starts to fall apart without the extra funding.

4) In order to keep the charter looking like the highest achieving school on all the standardized tests, any academic or behavioral problem students are immediately ejected. Now they can't just send them back to the regular high school because the paperwork and system is not that flexible. So where do they end up? Our remedial high school. We were overflowing with students and our class sizes went from 10-15 (because we were working with students where this was their last chance) to close to 40. Now all those students who hoped to get a better education at the state of the art school were just herded into a closet so their test scores didn't effect the charter. They became very dispirited and often depressed because of this major change.

Creating a hierarchy within the school system was just not the answer. And many parents became very disillusioned with the charter school and tried to get their students back into the regular high school. It was an absolute mess.

So no, I'm no fan of charter schools whether run by the school district and even less (far less) if run by a private company. They are NOT the answer to improving education.

I don't have children & had no idea how the school system had changed until I started reading MadFloridian's posts on DU.

When are American's going to wake up & realize that privatization is as big a fucking joke as trickle down economics?

As the child of a 45-year school teacher, even though I figured out very early on that teaching wasn't for me, it seems I always have a lot to say about it

I did love my school before all the changes. It was a place where students got a chance, really their last chance, to graduate from school. Some of the kids were hard core gang members and were straight from juvie--we even had a parole officer on site. Some had had severe disciplinary problems including threatening a teacher with a gun. Some were mothers and fathers of more than two children of their own. Most couldn't read or do any math above simple adding and subtracting. Some such poor or dysfunctional backgrounds, their stories made me cry. But the ones that really worked hard made amazing progress. I have never been to a high school graduation where every single person was literally sobbing with joy, gratitude and pride.

My students definitely taught me more than I they. I was straight out of grad school and couldn't get a job in my field so I was subbing a bit until I found something. I had been in schools so large they basically had police in every hallway. I had been assaulted in a junior high and given candy and gifts by third graders. But when I got to the continuation high school, though it was in a part of town you would never want to drive in at night and there were bullet holes in the windows of my classroom, it felt very different. When the students were changing classes the second day, I was walking through the halls. (This is actually the time that most fights start because the students are all milling around and not under the direct supervision of a teacher. At one of the schools I subbed in, a kid was stabbed walking to third period for looking at another boy's girlfriend.) There was the beginning of what looked like a big guy roughing up a smaller guy. But here, instead of a security guard yelling, "Hey, You!" and basically arresting the kid, I heard a teacher yell, "Hey, Ricardo, knock it off." The boy turned and smiled and said, "Sup Mr. C?" and totally forgot about the other kid and started telling this teacher about his weekend. All the teachers knew every student's name. It gave a family atmosphere. And I learned that many teenagers aren't ready to be thrown in the sea of giant high schools. I do believe that's why there is more school violence and suicide. Fourteen and fifteen year olds are not equipped to be that independent. They feel lost. In my school, they felt seen and like someone gave a damn about them. It made all the difference.

So that's just one of many long diatribes I have about education. The teacher-student relationship is not only the most important, it is the crux of education. Teachers should be supported in every possible way. We all have a favorite teacher, and almost always that was the person from whom we learned the most. So if we went back to dealing with the essentials, the teacher-student relationship, we might get a little further.

And if you read this far, thanks!

here in Washington State?

Would like to know, not aware of them.

I was confusing private schools with charter schools.
Sorry bout that.

(which had failed 2 or 3 times previously).

the state constitution.
If they succeed, they'll re-implement the law,
and there won't be anything we could do at
that point.
These people will not stop fighting till they get
what they want.
We have to continue fighting to keep them
from getting what they want.
It gets really tiring.

Best news ever. Now if the attitude would spread to other states.

Never believed in them in the first place. All they did was defund brick and mortar schools.

And a big Welcome to DU!



-p

But good for Washington State! Glad to see the right side win sometimes.

And I do not understand why other states spend tax money to fund schools that are not carefully controlled by the taxpayers and their representatives.

Gives a little hope.

if this were the beginning of the end of the "reforms."

Or, a jack-booted thug, according to the rethugs. This is the best thing I've heard in a long time regarding education in this country. Most charter schools were just another scam to skate money away from the public school system. Teachers don't need teaching degrees in these schools, they are not held to any measurable standards, and how many times have we heard about their administrations cheating on the tests by changing student's answers? I'm sure there are probably some good ones out there. The one in New York based on Physical Education comes to mind, but for the most part, it's just a way to divert public money into a private school.

in charter schools? My daughter had a teaching degree and she is an English teacher at a charter school in Miami. She recently earned her master's degree and got a very nice raise in salary. She loves that school.

The only time I have heard of administrators changing students' answers was right here in Georgia at public schools, and there was a huge scandal that resulted in many teachers being fired.

I'm not trying to insinuate that your daughter is in any way, shape, or form not qualified to teach, or that she doesn't care about her students or school. Hell, I work at what can be a fairly tough high school in Las Vegas, but I wouldn't go anywhere else for love or money. I love those kids like they were my own...it's a place that I feel I can really make a difference in young lives and minds, and I'm sure your daughter feels the same way about her students. Nobody goes into teaching to get wealthy or powerful...you've got to love the job.

But not all states demand a teaching degree for their charter schools. Some will accept work experience or a degree in something besides teaching if the degree is in the course to be taught. I'm sure your daughter will agree that teaching is not something just anyone can do because they happen to know a lot about a particular subject.

And then there's this:http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/class-struggle/post/surprise-dc-admits-school-test-tampering-at-meridian-public-charter/2013/04/25/818ccb2e-ad66-11e2-a8b9-2a63d75b5459_blog.html

There's no doubt that this occurs in public schools, too, although with the controls we have in place, it's has to be tough to pull off. No Child Left Behind (or as some of us put it, No Child's Behind Left!) pretty much set the stage for this kind of cheating. You can not take a "cookie cutter" approach to education. It simply won't work. Some of our learning disabled kids have to take those damn proficiency tests, and the frustration level it causes these kids is off the scale, as well as pulling our overall test results down, which in turn, affects our funding. My school almost got "reconstituted" this year, even though our graduation rates and overall GPA's went UP, because we didn't make enough "annual yearly progress" according to some damn bureaucrat who never spent a minute in front of a classroom. And you try looking into a crying kid's eyes because they're not going to be able to "walk" at graduation, even though they passed all their courses and had all the necessary credits, but didn't pass one of the proficiency tests. NCLB has completely pounded the creativity out of the classroom, because when EVERYTHING is riding on those results, you teach to the test. Nothing else is taken into consideration, not the level of poverty in the community (it's tough for hungry kids to learn), classroom size (mine average 38), or available resources.

Do teachers need to be competent & highly qualified? Of course we do...we're helping to form the next generation. Our new teachers are observed a minimum of 9 times during the school year, and it isn't just an administrator poking their heads in a classroom for a few seconds to make sure the kids aren't burning the classroom down. These are hardcore, period-long observations with a three page evaluation afterward...and you better not have forgotten to put things like your daily objectives on the board, or be doing something besides what your submitted lesson plan said you'd be doing. My colleague has been at our school for almost 30 years and she still goes through this evaluation 3 times a year, along with many more less rigorous ones. And trust me, 37 of my 38 students in any given class can be fully engaged, but I guarantee I'll hear about the one who's daydreaming.

Teaching is an art, with some better at it than others. But I learned more about teaching during my practicum and student teaching experience than I ever did in any classroom while in college, and that's the kind of stuff you don't get without a teaching degree.

Peace.

with middle school students, I am convinced that I could never be a teacher because I do not have the patience to deal with those kids. I give teachers a lot of credit for what they do.

My expertise was in the publishing business, and I only had to deal with editors who were easy to deal with.

Will she have a livable pension?

Or will she have to move in with you when she is at the age of 50 or 60+?

Just askin'.


Also, if your daughter DOES have a pension and union benefits, she is the exception in America,
as charter schools shut-out Unions wherever possible.
Whenever they can.

Chances are, even if things seem to be going well now,
your daughter's heart will be shattered somewhere along the way,
either professionally, or personally, by the charter system.

That happens a lot, even to many of the former "true-believers".

The joke was on them---They were USED as long as needed, and then DISCARDED.

As a retired teacher with many friends still working, I have seen it happen, A LOT.

If you had seen what I've seen, close-up and in-person, happening
to solid, dedicated professionals who deserved better, I assure you,
you would not be sleeping so well at night.

I know she's (as much as a teacher can) "riding the gravy-train" now,
but...
Beware.

It's just a money furnace that does nothing, except skim off the kids who would have succeeded anyway.

Frikkin' TRUTH, that.

Quit voting for stupid shit like that.

... for public schools and the funding thereof!

Is this the one you mentioned to me? Let me know. It's very good news....gives some hope.

Look in the 3rd column. I recced it not long after it was posted.

I really appreciate your bringing it to my attention. It's good news I wish we had some of in Florida.

~kick

In fact, it was kind of the opposite. They just can't receive state construction funds. But the suit against the new law failed in its attempt to rescind the law as unconstitutional. Here's the statement from the Attorney General of Washington State:

That is no "limited aspect." Common schools are what are referred to in the constitution. And if the judge found Charter Schools to be not "common schools" wouldn't that mean pretty much nothing in the constitution refers to them
But Gates, and Oprah, and Zuckerberg, and the rest will pump in the funds to challenge this.

And he says the law will proceed in the main. I presume if he's wrong, the judge would have said so.

And I am very much a progressive and hear all the bad things about them, but her school is fantastic and she's getting a great education compared to her public school peers. This school has figured out a way to work with local growers for their lunch programs, she's gone to Costa rica, going to Spain (this year)..... they receive public funding...20% less than public schools that we make up for through fund raising, etc. I feel pretty lucky she's going there. This is in OR. There is another charter in our town that is equally impressive. These schools sounds like they may be anomolies, but I guess I just wanted to point out that not all charters are bad.