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malaise

(269,157 posts)
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 09:04 AM Dec 2013

The Santa lie, Santa's race and the real problem for children

You see eventually parents tell their children that Santa is not real and that mommy and daddy bought the presents.
Being told that the only way you get these presents is because 'daddy' is a mythical white man consciously or unconsciously tells children of all races that only the white man gives you presents.

Since this mythical soon to be discovered 'father' is one's daddy, he'd have to come in several races just for the long term sanity of children, although I suspect all the stupid lies told 'to make them happy' or to fit into society's so called norms are enough to make them need psychiatrists in their teens.

Whether you lie for good or evil, it is still a lie.

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The Santa lie, Santa's race and the real problem for children (Original Post) malaise Dec 2013 OP
The pernicious lie about the Easter Bunny (usually depicted as white) is equally evil. Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #1
You know they can lie to their children all they want but I have a problem malaise Dec 2013 #2
YES. And I, for one, am going to call Congress RIGHT FUCKING NOW. (nt) Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #13
but but but ...they lie too L0oniX Dec 2013 #17
Well then you'd better not call the media malaise Dec 2013 #20
ROFL malaise Dec 2013 #18
Actually, LWolf Dec 2013 #3
Excellent point re gender malaise Dec 2013 #5
Fairy tales are quite grim. Lots of cannibals. L0oniX Dec 2013 #11
The only real, near-universal LWolf Dec 2013 #22
the point is not to box in the kids' imaginations. When grown ups tell kids what they are allowed liberal_at_heart Dec 2013 #27
ITA, I am no fan of the Santa Claus lie. Why can't the spirit of Xmas be magic in itself without raccoon Dec 2013 #4
My sentiment exactly malaise Dec 2013 #7
I doubt it is a bad thing Johonny Dec 2013 #10
What about La Befana? Drahthaardogs Dec 2013 #21
What do you mean Santa is not real Johonny Dec 2013 #6
There is a lovely Publix advertisement running in Florida malaise Dec 2013 #9
Teaching children that lying can be fun. L0oniX Dec 2013 #8
Good point. Believing in Santa as a kid turned me into a lying sociopath. Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #15
...and it can carry on into adult hood like ...repukes. L0oniX Dec 2013 #16
It's not Santa that's the problem, but how we explain it to our kids. reformist2 Dec 2013 #12
Oh for crying out loud.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Dec 2013 #14
There will come a day when we are not allowed to enjoy anything anymore because liberal_at_heart Dec 2013 #26
My childhood was one of awesome religious warfare within our family. hunter Dec 2013 #19
Are there any kids (little ones) who can respond here? Grateful for Hope Dec 2013 #23
Bwaaaaaaaaaaaah malaise Dec 2013 #29
malaise Grateful for Hope Dec 2013 #31
Back at you malaise Dec 2013 #32
Yeah, plus rich kids get better presents from Santa, reinforcing class divisions, Coyotl Dec 2013 #24
I get the race thing but give me a break. Kids have imaginations and like to pretend. liberal_at_heart Dec 2013 #25
Well said. Santa is a nice concept. We can all do without narrow-minded malcontents FSogol Dec 2013 #28
Another perspective nadinbrzezinski Dec 2013 #30

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
1. The pernicious lie about the Easter Bunny (usually depicted as white) is equally evil.
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 10:37 AM
Dec 2013

Parents who perpetuate the racist, atrocious falsehoods of caucasian Santas, Easter Bunnies, tooth fairies, and so on, deserve to have their children taken away from them.

malaise

(269,157 posts)
2. You know they can lie to their children all they want but I have a problem
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 10:45 AM
Dec 2013

with them and national institutions also lying to other people's children

malaise

(269,157 posts)
20. Well then you'd better not call the media
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 07:37 PM
Dec 2013

No one lies better than them...oops..oh yes the pastors.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
3. Actually,
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 10:46 AM
Dec 2013

I never learned that presents came from "daddy." My "daddy" didn't raise me, and while we knew each other, he never gave me a gift. Ever. My gifts came from my mother. From my grandmother. From my great Aunt.

The idea that gifts come from "daddy" is somewhat sexist and patronizing, imo.

My grandmother was HORRIFIED when I asked, and my mom told me, that Santa and the Easter Bunny weren't "real." She wanted the magic to last a little while longer, because that's something that the myth does; it keeps the magic of childhood alive for adults who don't have enough in their lives. The transition from magic to metaphor for unselfish giving, or for spring and new life and energy, or whatever the myth happens to be, is part of growing up.

At least it was, for me.

I never stopped to think about Santa's color or gender or anything else, except his wonderful generosity. And when I realized that the generosity was really based in everyone, I wanted to join in the giving.

malaise

(269,157 posts)
5. Excellent point re gender
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 10:53 AM
Dec 2013

I don't see how Santa or these other myths enhance the magic of childhood - we used our childish imagination for a plethora of magical things. I do love the unselfish giving and I know many persons who grew up without either religion or these myths who share with people they know and complete strangers.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
22. The only real, near-universal
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 09:46 PM
Dec 2013

thing is the magic via imagination; the particular shapes it takes may be cultural, and can be as myriad as snowflakes.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
27. the point is not to box in the kids' imaginations. When grown ups tell kids what they are allowed
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 10:18 PM
Dec 2013

to pretend and what they are not allowed to pretend, then it's not imagination anymore. That is when the magic disappears. There is no need to ruin children's imaginations because we as adults have power struggles among ourselves. Don't punish the children. Plus there is an upside to imagination. Those with imagination are more likely to be independent thinkers. They think outside the box. They come up with answers that the masses simply can't come up with. They are innovators. They are problem solvers. They are not just mindless drones just following orders given by the boss.

raccoon

(31,118 posts)
4. ITA, I am no fan of the Santa Claus lie. Why can't the spirit of Xmas be magic in itself without
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 10:52 AM
Dec 2013

embodying it as a being---same as with the old man in the sky.


Johonny

(20,878 posts)
10. I doubt it is a bad thing
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 11:07 AM
Dec 2013

If the point of Christmas is to teach children how to give as well as to be thankful to receive and the importance of family then it is hardly a lie if they grow up having learned how to give and receive of others. The child that has imaginary friends, conversations with stuffed animals, etc... have a different perception of the world than adults. Parents often use that imagination to teach value lessons to them which is why children's books are filled with magic, talking animals, fantasy worlds etc...

Plus parent deserve milk and cookies too

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
15. Good point. Believing in Santa as a kid turned me into a lying sociopath.
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 11:24 AM
Dec 2013

Thanks a lot, Mom and Dad.

reformist2

(9,841 posts)
12. It's not Santa that's the problem, but how we explain it to our kids.
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 11:14 AM
Dec 2013

Teaching kids about spirituality is difficult - Santa is sort of like training wheels for many.

ProudToBeBlueInRhody

(16,399 posts)
14. Oh for crying out loud....
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 11:18 AM
Dec 2013

....I'm not even going to get into it....but fuck you Megan Kelly for starting this shit.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
26. There will come a day when we are not allowed to enjoy anything anymore because
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 10:02 PM
Dec 2013

both parties will have made a political football out of everything in their quest for winning elections. It's getting ridiculous.

hunter

(38,323 posts)
19. My childhood was one of awesome religious warfare within our family.
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 01:13 PM
Dec 2013

Santa Claus was an early casualty.

There were good reasons for the "no gun" rule in my parent's house.

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
24. Yeah, plus rich kids get better presents from Santa, reinforcing class divisions,
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 09:50 PM
Dec 2013

especially in the context of Santa gives you presents if you are good.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
25. I get the race thing but give me a break. Kids have imaginations and like to pretend.
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 09:56 PM
Dec 2013

My kids believed in Santa for as long as they wanted and each of them stopped believing at different times when they wanted to stop believing. My son is autistic so he believed for a longer amount of time than my daughter who began to question not only Santa but the existence of God in about the second grade. My husband and I neither encouraged or discouraged the belief. My kids are free to believe whatever they want to believe. There is nothing wrong with having imagination and pretending.

FSogol

(45,515 posts)
28. Well said. Santa is a nice concept. We can all do without narrow-minded malcontents
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 10:42 PM
Dec 2013

hating everything.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
30. Another perspective
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 02:36 AM
Dec 2013

Having grown up Jewish there was no Santa, or wise men in my life. Hanukah Harry is something to laugh at, (yes Madison Ave, we are laughing at you). The closest was Purim, and all that involved real people, not magical beings. (Ok or as real as the story of Esther can be). And Purim is still a minor holiday as far as holidays are concerned. Oh and it is a festival of dressing in costumes, making noise and eating pastries. (Show me, outside of Yom kippu, and tis he D'av' a Jewish holiday that really does not involve food)

I always knew my parents were the ones behind the gifts and December was a time to give to charity, assuming I even won at Chanukah games. Ok, ok I confess, I still gave.

Yup, growing up in western culture Prince Charming was the closest we got to magical make belief, and I did cry when Bambi's mom got killed in the movie theater.

The idea of Christmas is that of renewal in the middle of winter, and a celebration of life in the middle of the darkest time of the year. So sue me and comparative religion classes as an adult.



To me that is where Santa belongs.

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