The three that are still working are in government positions. I went to college a decade after most people my age (and yes, it was complete waste of time and money), so fellow grads are mostly in their '40s. We were the tail end of the tech boom and we were almost universally shit-canned.

We're the STEM workers that the parasites can't seem to find or bring themselves to hire.

Would it make sense for someone in your classmates' position to take continuing ed classes and get trained in some new computer related area? Would that make older graduates more employable?

you'll have in the field at 40. There are always exceptions and connections are good as always, I'm speaking from experience and relating what has been done to people that literally invented much of the technology that is ubiquitous today.

In the U.S., if he has a background in biology, organic chemistry, something medically related it should be OK-to-good going forward for the next few years. If not, I'd strongly recommend a reexamination of that major. There are always going to be niches that will do well, but the bottom line is that in CS you are always chasing the next big thing, always starting over at a new company or job, and always working yourself out of a job. The rates I see the people that do the actual work being paid today is frankly shocking, and I'm not at all surprised at how sloppy the products coming out are.

If I were 30 years younger, I'd learn what I could here, go to Asia, and get into nanotechnology. I think that's going to be huge and Japan/South Korea is where it's happening.

That, I think, is one of the reasons older workers have been pushed out of IT jobs: not only are their current salaries "too expensive", they might tell the new hires how much they made when first hired.

A once great field has been made garbage by outsourcing. I would recommend anything medical related instead.

He finally started taking CS and math classes, and hit his stride.

Another thing. Years ago, an engineering relative was telling a niece that engineering might not be the best major -- she should study medicine instead. Meanwhile, a doctor relative was telling his nephew not to study medicine -- he should study electrical engineering.

Either programming, whatever the hot language du-jour is, or...

Have him get a minor in business and position himself to be an ERP implementer of SAP or Oracle or the like and go for a spot at a large consulting firm.

the software is ever evolving. You can get a private, in home license from ESRI for $100.00/year.

http://www.esri.com/software/arcgis/arcgis-for-home

one of several gis job sites...
http://www.gjc.org/gjc-cgi/listjobs.pl

I'm going to speak about the programming side, since that's what I understand. The IT side is vaguely similar, but with lots of different details.

The thing about working as a developer is you can never be "done" with your education. You have to constantly learn what "new" language and technologies are coming out. Now, that training usually doesn't require classes - the idea behind that CS degree is to learn the fundamentals well enough that you can apply them to a new language or technology without taking more classes. After learning about 3 languages picking up any new ones is pretty easy.

But that only gets you through mid-career.

Then you reach the "40 cliff" that others here were discussing. There's a kid 10 years younger, and 10 years cheaper, who can write the same software. As a result, being "yet another programmer" is a problem when you get 40+. To be well-employed 40+, there has to be another reason to hire you.

There are various options for doing that, depending on what the individual wants. Most obvious is to be the expert on an archaic but still critical system. Problem there is that system will eventually be replaced.

"Consultant" can be quite profitable, if you are good at coming in and "saving the day". But employment is not consistent so you need to command top-dollar when you are getting paid.

Leading development teams and technical management is another fairly obvious path. And those two things are different - the person who does annual reviews is a manager. The person who tells you how to write the software is the technical lead. They do require different skills, but some companies try to combine the roles into one person. The problem here is there's a roughly 1 of these leadership positions for every 10 "regular" developers. So you're going to have to stand out as a lead or manager in order to make that work.

My previous advice for people who just wanted to write code all day was to burrow themselves in at a government institution. However, that doesn't have much job security anymore. It's still possible, but it's not the strong safety net it used to be. A slightly less-stable version of that is to get a security clearance - your job can't be outsourced and you'll likely always have employment opportunities in the DC area.

The least-obvious path is to start their own company. Through their years writing software, they're going to come up with plenty of ideas for something new. So do it. Requires a bit of a "nest egg" to get the ball rolling, but it's still possible to attract initial investors. It will require a lot of hours per week of work, and they should run their personal finances as if the company will fold (ex. keep paying yourself a salary). As an added bonus if the company fails, the experience is very helpful in getting a management, lead or consultant job.

Oh, and it's not possible for someone just getting their degree to decide which of these paths to take. It's going to take a lot of time and experience to figure out which one works for them. If any.

A CS career isn't a wasteland, but it's also not a guaranteed cash cow like in the '90s.

doesn't match the preceding description at all. What you describe sounds very much like a wasteland.

People with advanced degrees and years of experience wandering from job to job, dragging a debt load that is constantly added to by the necessity of constantly changing skill and certificate requirements, with no real hope of ever being secure.

We need STEM workers as long as they are willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars to become the technological equivalent of day laborers.

Programmers over 40 will hit a problem that plumbers over 40 do not. That doesn't make the programmers doomed. It means they'll have to do something different than plumbers to stay employed in that field. If they want to.

Knowing that this problem is coming allows them to prepare for it, making it a relatively small problem instead of doomsday.

As for the STEM bullshit, that's something politicians throw about to cover lies like "We need H1B visas" and "Don't worry about losing your factory job, we'll make you all computer programmers".

If there was any reality to the STEM bullshit, STEM salaries would be going through the roof - supply and demand also applies to labor, after all. STEM salaries haven't been going through the roof. In most fields, salaries are flat or rising slowly. But spouting the STEM bullshit is nice political cover.

If you want wasteland, consider what's going to happen in a few decades as more and more automation takes over for labor. It's not going to be too terribly long before we don't need human plumbers anymore.

Hi,
I was fired after 30 years in my field, broadcasting; Which has gone though an enormous automation push. I am also older with a couple of degrees, so no one wants to hire me for a full time job. I have a part time job in broadcasting, but it barely pays the bills.

I have not dropped out, but was shoved out & basically told not to come back.

ever have another job, and certainly not a full-time "real" job anything like the ones they once had.

Younger people have a tough enough time without competition from us.

Couldn't take corporate BS, rude customers, unsafe working conditions anymore.

I've been suffering from diminishing eyesight for awhile & the stupid company wouldn't provide a damn lamp!

There was no building security (I worked at night) & people would stray into the office. Management response "Well, we have cameras".

One night I'd just had enough. Bye y'all.

But it had nothing to do with my age because three others were laid off at the same time, all younger than me.

I was a copy editor and tried to find freelance work, but did not have any success. So I just gave up and decided to retire full time.

except for finally getting a job in June this year, then laid off again at the beginning of august, because they had no work for me to do.
I'm a computer tech, in phoenix az. I apply for lots of jobs online, never get a call back or interview. I'd understand if I messed up an interview (I'm over fifty, and usually they want guys in their 20's to do computer support), but I don't even get them. If I get a call at all, it is from temp job companies (used to work contract with Manpower but they won't work with me, they don't do computer anymore). I recently talked with Stivers and Ashley Ellis, they both submitted me for a contract job, but I didn't get an interview even, and haven't been called for any other jobs they might get - I think they just go through the motions and rarely place anyone.

So yeah I've kind of given up. I'm training myself to be a piano tuner/repair guy, since no corporation will hire me, the best I can hope is to be self employed I guess.

I've worked my whole life since I was sixteen, until the banks destroyed the economy, and I lost my job and my house and everything I'd built up. I'll never forgive those who destroyed the country (banks and republicans), and those who did too little to stop it or help, and didn't try to prevent the foreclosure crisis or help average people, but bailed out the banks instead...

you might try a different city. When I was looking for work, there was an enormous difference in demand between cities. I was trying to move to CO to be closer to family, there were only about 10 "IT" jobs listed per day online for the entire state. Instead, I looked elsewhere and found about 110 "IT" jobs/day for one city.

But you'd have to move to places like San Jose, Austin or Raleigh. "Big city" isn't enough any more. "Big city with lots of IT" can make it work.

I now make and install custom kitchen cabinets. It was a bitch getting started, I lived on my disability pay for months and it was really tight. Things are looking up for me, but I know that it is still very tough for those that want to work.

After several years of looking, he's in a full depression and lives off what his wife brings in from her two other pt jobs.

I doubt he'll ever work again. He's in despair.

Worked during periods of unemployment. Depends on the season..spring and summer advertise to do painting and yard work..driving around looking for things that need to be cleaned up, then contacting who needs it done. Buying and selling junk, bargaining. Nothing legal and ethical is too low for me if I need to earn.

During my first unemployment, 30 years ago, I met a guy who mentored me through. He said I should offer my services for free to a potential employer.this was during an extremely difficult job market. I did just that. .the employer declined, but called me the next day and offered me a job dumping water out of tires. I did this for 9 months. It gave me humility i have never forgotten. .the most important job I had from a learning standpoint. .

My job was torpedoed by the crash in 2008 and I was 53. I'm "too old", employers seem to want workers without much experience because they can pay them less. So I gave up in 2012. We got rid of cable, started cooking more, refinanced the house, traded in both cars on cheaper ones. We were lucky. My husband retired, filed for a disability, got it, and now we have more money coming in every month than when we both worked. I do some volunteering.

I've been out of work since 2008. Never got one single interview for any level of job I applied for (can't even remember how many). My timing was so perfect that the week I left my job, with many, many prospects, the job market fell to pieces, and suddenly there was nothing.

Unlike some of you, I have no real skills or education. And the jobs market is really weird. Many types of work I can do, now require a BS degree and three to five years experience. What jobs might those be, you ask? File clerks. Yeah. Answering phones. Duh.

I'm going to kickstart my writing career in 2014. The last two years have been hard, with my mother and then my father getting sick. This year really bit me hard in the ass, and I basically shut down doing much of anything. Even got in a major funk and pulled what I'd managed to get published down.

But, as I say every year: "Next year will be better." It never is, but I can't give up. I'm too damned stubborn.

Two are engineers in their late 50's that were laid off three years ago. Both are still living on their retirement savings waiting for social security. both have given up looking for work.

The other is a recently returned Afghanistan vet. I think he has PTSD and is living on some VA payment. He is not looking for work. He says as long as he has a check coming in that pays for food and shelter, why look?

I have been without a job for five years and two months.

Only had two interviews, and a few very small freelance writing or translating jobs, despite sending out hundreds of resumes. I fell into a serious depression because of this, though I started recovering when I decided to give up searching a while back.

Luckily my husband has a job, although money's been tight.

In a little over two months I'll be able to collect early Social Security, though I wish I could find work instead. I still check various places online every day or two.

I'm not yet quite retirement age and have been looking for a job since I got laid off in March. I don't interview well because, well, I'm old. Fortunately my husband is still working.

I moved, but I was promised by Barnes & Noble that I was rehirable according to HR. The records they had on me were all good.

When I went to the new BN where I moved, they wouldn't hire me. They called my old store and talked to the one person in management that I didn't along with. I asked them to call the district manager who knew me and had recommended me for other jobs. They wouldn't do it.

I tried to find out what was going on, but I had no success. Apparently there was something I had no clue about that was negative. I had nothing in writing so i was SOL. I still have friends there and none of them knew anything or could find out anything.

My area has few job openings. Those that I have applied for have not gone anywhere. I would like to work parttime to stay busy and to help my finances.

retirement and just took our pensions.

Was downsized from her management-level position and bled her unemployment benefits dry and declared bankruptcy rather than consider a position "beneath" her. Lifelong Republican voter, naturally.

Her training and experience qualified her for non-upper level jobs in a hospital setting that would have paid nearly as well, with better group benefits, and much less personal stress, but she wouldn't consider them. She now does nothing with her time, not even volunteer work. In truth, there is obvious undiagnosed depression there, which she refuses to acknowledge or talk to anyone about.

It's sad really, to watch these cast-aside baby boomers who spent their whole lives believing the world belonged to them. It seems like the economic downturn has hit them especially hard, both financially and psychologically.

We Gen Xers and Gen Yers, on the other hand, have been born and bred with cynicism about the world we live in and what to expect from it, lol.

But the damned prices keep dropping. I don't know what folks are going to do. Look for more busts on the eastbound interstates as people try to get those East Coast prices for their weed.

He meets the minimum UI requirements of looking for work. But only applies to jobs he's not qualified for and know's he'll fail the interview.

It's the opposite of your question since he's counted as looking for work but has a working spouse with enough income and has no intention of getting another job.

and consequently a job, for twelve years.

Here is a recent interview he did:

https://vimeo.com/65171169

And his blog.

https://sites.google.com/site/livingwithoutmoney/

Fascinating person.