going to shave for the new year?

in the bottom of the toilet again, haha!

people like Snowden are anathema to any government. Who would possibly trust him.

GG says, For Germany or Brazil to defy the United States, there is a cost to that.

As Madeleine Albright said referring to Snowden,

“I think he did incredible damage. I think he's a traitor and he has damaged us internationally. I am very glad, however, that there is a discussion going on, because I think there's a lot of paradoxical aspects to it.

I coined a new term which is there's cyber exhibitionism. People put an incredible amount of information themselves out into the system, and they think that's kind of neat and fun, and at the same time they criticize the police and FBI in Boston for not having found the marathon killer ahead of time. And so we don't know what we want.

We do believe that privacy is essential to us, but at the same time we are concerned about terrorists. So I think there's a big discussion to be had.

Snowden had the possibility of going to the intelligence committees. He is not what one would call a whistleblower. There’s a system for doing that. He is a narcissistic exhibitionist who has hurt the United States in a very bad way.”

https://grabien.com/file.php?id=12358&searchorder=date

I see nothing wrong with that kind of thinking. If you're are a criminal, that shouldn't deter from having a discussion.

We actually got the Congress to discuss the issue and pass new laws. Remember? Oh, obviously not.

THEIR shit, that they toss out there, often invective-filled and full of hyperbolic drama, looked at ever, for any reason, because, well, the gubmint should know by osmosis that they're not a bad guy.

There exists an unresolved tension between freedom and security, and We, The People haven't decided how many bodies in the street we'll tolerate so that some Eddie Snowden clone doesn't formulate a metadata diagram that shows that Aunt Martha called that handyman whose brother spent eight months in Yemen and posted some sketchy shit on a website.

Greenwald and Snowden evealed that the US spied on Germany and Brazil and he expected them to do something for Snowden.

What did Greenwald have to say about Brazilian espionage against the US?

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/brazil-admits-it-spied-on-u-s-diplomats

IOKIYAB

It's OK If You're Brazilian

Files? What obligation does either country have to assist Snowden? Greenwald should have done a better job of protecting Snowden. The more I hear about Snowden and his actions the more I am convinced there is much more to the story than "revealing information" which had been t
revealed eight years ago. There is a plot and I am not sure it will assist the group who thinks it might. Tell us Snowden, whose patsy are you?

He got some bad advice from a 1% who lives very comfortably in a tropical paradise. Some actual "whistleblowers" want some questions answered by Snowie & GG: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017165892

Benghazi boy.

You wouldn't believe how long I've wanted to say that here.

But, at least it's warmer where you are than where Snowden is.

...offers his services in conducting anti-intelligence activities against his own nation to foreign governments.


No... wait... they have a different word for that...

Thanks for sharing

When isn't he?
He is always in superlative drive, arms a flailing – standing for Justice everywhere in world. hahahahaha, heh.

Try another act, Glenn. I'm sure this same old is getting tiresome even to your most loyal donators.

I will never tire of his hard work and courage to right the wrongs of this country and anywhere else he finds them. He sees the selfless altruism of Edward Snowden and will be defending him until proven otherwise. I agree with him. I am currently studying all I can find on what Jeremy Scahill has been investigating including his books, writings for The Nation, and interviews by Democracy Now among others. I can see there is so much more going on without our knowledge and with extreme steps taken to make sure we don't know about anything horrific our government is doing. Maybe others should take the time to pay attention and inform themselves of what is really "being done in our name." All this is happening with a Democratic president that most of us voted for. We've been lulled into believing he could do no wrong. Unfortunately, whatever he discovered from Bush upon taking over the White House, he has been terrified by that knowledge and has allowed the military and neo-cons to lead him into decisions that will change the way we identify ourselves as a country. Soon we will have to write a new Constitution that matches who we have become. This is what has GG "flailing" his arms, and this is what got Michael Hastings killed. We should be supporting these courageous investigative reporters because they are our last bulwark against a government that treats us like mushrooms.

haha.

Short version: Obama is worse than Bush and Cheney who really weren't so bad.

But hey, why not go on an online campaign to smear people to distract from that fact, as if that's not obvious? Too bad for the propagandists that a majority of the public is a lot smarter than that now, at least the people who choose to actually inform themselves.

The only question I have, that I'm sure lots of others have is, why does this particular site allow such blatant propaganda? I guess it's a free speech thing which kind of gets right to the point of outing the NSA spying crimes as well.

"The only question I have, that I'm sure lots of others have is, why does this particular site allow such blatant propaganda? I guess it's a free speech thing which kind of gets right to the point of outing the NSA spying crimes as well."

...posting Greenwald's comments whining on behalf of Snowden is "propaganda."

You "guess it's a free speech thing"?

LOL!

It's people who post blatant character assassination pieces who are whining. Have fun with that PROPAGANDA technique.

"It's people who post blatant character assassination pieces who are whining. Have fun with that PROPAGANDA technique."

...appears to be upsetting to some.

I call it the Double Fallacy Attack.

They rarely, if ever, offer reasons why the NSA spying is good or should be supported, but rather try to turn Snowden and Greenwald into some kind of monsters by misrepresenting their actions (pure straw man fallacy). Then they try to use those straw men as the basis for a genetic fallacy argument - that we should not listen to anything Snowden/Greenwald says because they are horrible human beings, and thus we should ignore the more crucial issue - the spying on we the people which doesn't seem to have any boundaries.

You're already up to speed on "certain users?" And you know who is naughty, and who is nice? REALLY?

Wow, it took me forever to figure out how to get myself an avatar or post a link.

I was here for MONTHS before I recognized anyone's names....

So, are you a returnee, or a very fast learner? If the former, who were you in your previous iteration?

"They rarely, if ever, offer reasons why the NSA spying is good or should be supported, but rather try to turn Snowden and Greenwald into some kind of monsters by misrepresenting their actions (pure straw man fallacy). Then they try to use those straw men as the basis for a genetic fallacy argument - that we should not listen to anything Snowden/Greenwald says because they are horrible human beings, and thus we should ignore the more crucial issue - the spying on we the people which doesn't seem to have any boundaries."

...welcome to DU. This thread is about Greenwald whining about countries not helping Snowden.

Proof that it's possible to criticize the NSA and Snowden: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024202440#post20

Whether or not Greenwald is praised or vilified (your repetition of "whining" says enough), the central issue being debatd should be the spying programs of the NSA. Why do you keep trying to distract from these central issues by leading a smear campaign against him? Most of us Democrats hate when Karl Rove and the GOP pull their stunts, but why are you doing the same exact thing?

"the central issue being debatd should be the spying programs of the NSA."

..."the central issue" of this thread is the excerpt in the OP.

"Why do you keep trying to distract from these central issues by leading a smear campaign against him? Most of us Democrats hate when Karl Rove and the GOP pull their stunts, but why are you doing the same exact thing?"

Seems you have the tactic down. You really need to come to grips with the fact that Greenwald is not above criticism.

And, yes, his comments in the OP amount to whining.

He could be a serial killer employed by Putin for all I care. That wouldn't change what the NSA has been doing, and criticizing him isn't relevant to making America a better place.

"Criticizing Greenwald is about as relevant as criticizing Miley Cyrus

He could be a serial killer employed by Putin for all I care"

To each his own.

No one is forcing you to criticize anyone. FYI: You don't get to decide what's "relevant."

I couldn't give one, two or one-thousand flying fucks what the NSA did, all Edward Snowden did was confirm what I always suspected.

On the other hand, I'd pay my last $50 for the opportunity to see Glenn Greenwald publicly humiliated and his credibility destroyed.

opinion on what a whiny a$$hole greenwald is.

I have a different opinion than you.. and you can't deal with it so you have to resort to name calling.

You are the one name calling ("whiny asshole&quot .

I could deal with your different opinion, as long as it actually relates to public policy rather than the praise or vilification of some people who have absolutely ZERO power inside the U.S. government. Let's talk about our elected officials and bureaucrats who are making the NSA's out-of-control spying possible, rather than Greenwald and Snowden.

DU members.

Funny, anyone with brain should know nobody is ever swayed by such obvious subterfuge. Yet here it is, day in and day out...

And don't look for any reasons why we should love the big brother spy program because they don't have any that will make any sense.
But welcome to DU...and thanks for speaking up.

I really do not like Greenwald. Of course Brazil and Germany are aware of spying. These countries have access to the results of these efforts. The fact that Greenwald is shocked that everyone is not buying his bullshit is amusing to me.

If he had worked half as hard to expose spying on U.S. citizens and international diplomats under Duhbya, then I would've taken him seriously. Sorry, but I don't now.

Now he's just another Rightwing Libertarian doing the bidding of the Koch Bros and other assorted Libertarian billionaires by trying to discredit this administration and the Democratic Party in order to get another Republican in the WH and give Republicans control of Congress.

Fuck Greenwald and the Snowden horse he rode in on.

and rec'd.

Well said.

Sid

so obvious what this little charlatan is all about.

fuck the little turd.

But let's not forget that the original Patriot Act was signed into law in October 2001. I never heard Greenwald whine about it up until the country sentiment began to change.

The political tides began to turn against Duhbya and resulted in Democratic wins in 2006. Democrats regained some power in the House and the Senate, showing that the people of this country were turning against Duhbya, and that's when Greenwald began critisizing the Duhbya regime. In contrast, he had been anti-Obama from the moment the president was first inaugurated.

And for a guy who passionately loathes invasion of privacy for U.S. citizens, he was pretty much incognito with regards to the original Patriot Act that was FAR more invasive than the one we currently have.

And let's not forget that Greenwald actually supported Citizens United, so I don't believe he's so against the Koch Bros as you believe.

I'm sorry, but he's lost all credibility with me, based on his own very well documented past. He has no one to blame but himself for that self-inflicted wound.

So you are woefully and ignorantly wrong.

The first book, "How Would A Patriot Act" was a NY Times best seller. Given that it was a scathing critique of the Bush regime, one could make the argument that it contributed to a 2006 Democratic win.

in 2005...and from the beginning, he was critical of the Bush administration, the surveillance state, torture, the Washington press (his usual targets). Also, as I assume you already know, Greenwald's position on Citizens United is shared by the ACLU (and not because Greenwald and the ACLU are Koch Brothers fans). Again, the excerpt I included in my last post makes clear Greenwald is a Koch Bros critic (not "another Rightwing Libertarian doing the bidding of the Koch Bros and other assorted Libertarian billionaires by trying to discredit this administration and the Democratic Party in order to get another Republican in the WH and give Republicans control of Congress&quot :

<<For billionaires to see themselves as the True Victims, to complain that the President and the Government are waging some sort of war against them in the name of radical egalitarianism, is so removed from reality — universes away — that’s it’s hard to put into words. And the fiscal recklessness that the Kochs and their comrades tirelessly point to was a direct by-product of the last decade’s rule by the Republican Party which they fund: from unfunded, endless wars to a never-ending expansion of the privatized National Security and Surveillance States to the financial crisis that exploded during the Bush presidency. But whatever else is true, there are many victims of fiscal policy in America: the wealthiest business interests and billionaires like the Koch Brothers are the few who are not among them.>>

From the preface to "How Would A Patriot Act?":

I knew GG was full of shit when he came out with a full throated endorsement of the Citizens United ruling. He's a 1%'r, and his paymasters are fuckin' assholes.

all the right people, I see. Need a friggin' snorkel to read these threads through all the frothy whining.

MSNBC is undermining the Republican agenda:

Note that none of the recent anti-Snowden and/or anti-Greenwald threads contain anything new. They just have hate they want to spew, as they are in this thread, and in lots of others. I corrected one poor slob who was going off on Greenwald today for an article Greenwald didn't even write. This particular OP is based on a made-up notion--that "Greenwald is upset". Those words were invented by the OP, and latched onto by several hangers-on who just aren't intellectually curious enough to ask themselves how the word "upset" was introduced. The most revealing part of the last 6 months or so, at least in my experience, has been the ease with which some Democrats tell lies about Snowden/Greenwald/NSA. I've been made to understand very clearly that some of these people are much more interested in winning than in uncomfortable truths. It was a shame to find that out about some of my fellow Democrats, but now that I know it, I'll never un-learn it.

I have to use an incognito mode tab in chrome to even read this thread. Using ignore list to tune out the greenwald smear merchants has really turned their sneering lip-curled hate fests into mostly echo chambers. Good riddance to fallacious arguments and roffle waffles.

and think, man, there are a lot of gullible people in this great land of ours . . .

Especially from the US.

We are supposed to be the bastion of freedom, but now it has been revealed, with official documents, that we are spying on everyone, at home and abroad.

Well, fortunately we still have brave souls around who are willing to put their necks out for the rest of us, to get this debate started.

I give them my sincere thanks for being very successful in that regard.

Keep up the good work Snowden and Greenwald

Especially since we have all been taught that only those countries, communist/socialist, are the evil ones who stoop to such anti-freedom acts of spying on everyone, and now it turns out that we make them look like pikers.

What a disgrace.

But at least the proverbial "cat is out of the bag" now, and so we have a chance to put these authoritarians, and their undemocratic policies back into their caves, where they belong.

Especially since this is very bad for business, too.

Bad for the Obama agenda too. And a huge pain in the ass. Nothing whatsoever was actually revealed to the public, other than that the NSA has cleaned up its act considerably since 2009, but the Obama admin sure took a hit.

Gee, who would want that to happen?

I see that your political concern trumps all others, so I am adding you to my ignore list.

I love that DU has that functionality as it makes discussing issues of concern with like minded individuals who are looking for solutions, rather than CYA political Band-Aids, much more productive.

As a politically active citizen of these great United States I take great pride that through our informed participation we can actually make our country better. I find it is a requirement to block out all the partisan noise, via media, and digital communications, to be more effective in this task.

Thank you, ucrdem, for being upfront about it

That's probably not what you meant, but considering the way the press has played along with their charade, I'd say something is rotten in Denmark and at the moment at least it isn't the NSA or USG. Incidentally Snowden claimed to be last employed by BAH, not the NSA:

This is exactly why I encourage folks to use ignore, liberally.

I had not added you yet, so as to give you the courtesy of finishing out this sub-thread, however, I will add you now so do not expect any further replies, since it is not worth my precious time (or anyone else's) to engage with someone who thinks that whistleblowers and the press are bad for democracy.

On to better discussions with like minded, concerned citizens, who wish to create a more perfect union, for us, and our children, by taking it back from those who wish to see it continue down it's present course (the past 6 decades) that only have the concerns of a small cadre of super rich special interests at heart at the expense of all others.

The internet is the great leveler, it will be the means we use to win, however, time is precious, as noted above, so we must not be distracted by those who do not wish this needed change to happen.

It is a gift, really, when folks reveal themselves so easily, many are much more discrete and will be much more successful in sucking up our time. So for that, I thank you!

And Snowball is no whistleblower. Anyway it's been grand. Salve et vale!

At Mon Dec 30, 2013, 11:16 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

And bad for democracy, too.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4253660

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

MIRT alert...somebody with 4 posts saying "I'm adding you to my ignore list" suggests a zombie

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Dec 30, 2013, 11:28 PM, and the Jury voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Really? someone with 4 posts who has recognized the value of Ignore all ready is a quick learner.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: Not just any zombie, but a Snowald zombie. Also: sullying the name of a great burger joint. For shame!
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Considering what's gone on here lately, no hide from me. Sorry.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Even if it "suggests a zombie" there's no hard proof whatsoever. Unnecessary alert if you ask me.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

Is there a way to see all your posts that have been alerted on?

I would not have realized this post had been alerted without your post.

So, by simply supporting the defense of the 4th amendment, is cause for an alert in some peoples minds, interesting.

Too bad the jury participants names aren't available, as I would add those 2 who voted to hide my voice to my ignore list.

As I have said before, after years of posting on internet forums, usually on tech issues, I find it saves a lot of time and head-aches to add to your ignore list liberally.

By simply adding 6 posters from this thread to my ignore list, it has made this thread much more savory.

Thanks again nomorenomore08 for sharing

And I think it's really shitty when those who kiss the ass of authority are given more leeway, on a left-leaning site, than those who speak up against the abuse of power.

And I agree, that it is a shame that such an alert would even be made on a democratic site, however, I do take heart that the members of the jury, such as yourself, preserved my voice, and for that I thank you, and the rest of the jurors for defending the spirit of this site

I take it as another sign that Americans do not approve of our democracy being trashed by a few, short-sighted authoritarians.

For even if they do not see the freedom and moral implications of these breaches of our freedom and constitution, they are completely missing out of the damage they are causing our American tech companies who now face serious concerns when competing internationally with compromised products.

This issue now has serious commercial concerns, and fortunately we now have a wise, and intelligent President, who can see beyond the partisan, and special interest concerns to deal with this issue, as he must ASAP.

Hard nowadays not to see him as just part of the machine, in his own way, but I still voted for him twice in part because I respect his intelligence.

it`s getting to seem that way.

and regularly invited for interviews U.S. news programs.

Greenwald is such an evil mastermind he forces, I SAY FORCES, news media to invite him on their programs.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

Just sayin'.

Our "transparent" government is pursuing and persecuting whistleblowers and journalists.

No our government is NOT persecuting Greenwald. He is not being "pursued" is he? Now Snowden the admitted criminal. Yeah he is...

Any more than Rosa Parks, et al, or Daniel Ellsberg were criminals.

Rosa Parks wasn't a whistleblower by the way...

Snowden HAS admitted his crimes....he has to go to court to prove he is a whistleblower...but he is a coward.


Okay 3 Founding Fathers AND Rosa Parks....

can Jesus be far behind?

Does that make her a criminal in your perspective of "the law".

BTW, under Roman Law Jesus was a criminal and was tried, and found guilty...clearly, from your perspective, he deserved what he got.

Shouldn't they have stayed and bravely faced the charges against them?

but some of us do not believe Snowden walks on water!

Not about the walking on water part, but the rest.

Why do you feel so threatened by Snowden's revelations of wrongdoing? Especially since "everybody knew it" anyway.

you made the comparison to Jesus!

and anyone reading it would laugh!

Can God be far off?

she went to court....

equating that to stealing top secret documents and then delivering them to China and Russia is a reflection on YOUR values.

Thanks to Snowden and Greenwald.

"if a dog will bring a bone, he'll carry one as well".

think Republicans are soooo stupid for voting against their interests defend this:



You defend them and they laugh in your face.

Excellent comparison!