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The Straight Story

(48,121 posts)
Tue Dec 31, 2013, 05:30 PM Dec 2013

Educators can't distinguish between childish games and real threats.

Last week, the Wall Street Journal's Alison Gopnik reported on research from professors Jacqueline Wooley at the University of Texas and Paul Harris at Harvard that showed a surprising degree of sophistication among preschool kids. Apparently, though they spend a lot of time in fantasy pursuits, they're actually quite good at distinguishing fantasy from reality:

Children understand the difference. They know that their beloved imaginary friend isn't actually real and that the terrifying monster in their closet doesn't actually exist (though that makes them no less beloved or scary). But children do spend more time than we do thinking about the world of imagination. They don't actually confuse the fantasy world with the real one; they just prefer to hang out there.

...

At South Eastern Middle School in Fawn Grove, Pa., for example, 10-year-old Johnny Jones was suspended for using an imaginary bow and arrow. That's right - - not a real bow and arrow, but an imaginary bow and arrow. A female classmate saw this infraction, tattled to a teacher, and the principal gave Jones a one-day suspension for making a "threat" in class.

...

You've probably also heard about the 7-year-old Maryland boy who was suspended for gnawing a Pop Tart into the shape of a gun. And then there's the case of the 8-year-old Arizona boy whose drawings of ninjas and Star Wars characters -- and interest in, gasp, zombies -- led to threats of expulsion. And, of course, there's the six-year-old boy charged with "sexual harassment" for kissing a girl. So much for Tom Sawyer and Becky Thatcher.

So is this steady stream of incidents an indication of widespread mental deficiency among America's K-12 educators? In a word, yes.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/12/30/preschool-kids-education-grades-column/4239891/

14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Educators can't distinguish between childish games and real threats. (Original Post) The Straight Story Dec 2013 OP
IBTL Seeking Serenity Dec 2013 #1
Seems to be true in the USA. dipsydoodle Dec 2013 #2
Widespread mental deficiency? Please. Bjorn Against Dec 2013 #3
Zero Tolerance makes people stupid. Iggo Dec 2013 #4
Perfect meritocrats pscot Dec 2013 #5
And of course there was the bullying and continued disobedience of that Arizona boy intaglio Dec 2013 #6
This is why I always roll my eyes at these stories Bjorn Against Dec 2013 #10
Instapundit on DU...lovely alcibiades_mystery Dec 2013 #7
Fuck that shit. LWolf Dec 2013 #8
A threat seattledo Dec 2013 #9
Steady stream ... GeorgeGist Dec 2013 #11
That is from Pajamas Media...the Instapundit. madfloridian Dec 2013 #12
I dislike zero tolerance...but it is not the fault of the teachers. madfloridian Dec 2013 #13
Glen Reynolds says so? Really. El_Johns Jan 2014 #14

Seeking Serenity

(2,840 posts)
1. IBTL
Tue Dec 31, 2013, 05:34 PM
Dec 2013

You do know that Glenn Reynolds is a conservative professor/columnist. While that factoid has nothing to do with the substance of the claim, I just thought I'd point that out 'cause I doubt it's gonna get a very positive response here.

If I'm wrong (which I can be in spades) and it doesn't get locked, I'll respond to the substance of his column.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
3. Widespread mental deficiency? Please.
Tue Dec 31, 2013, 05:48 PM
Dec 2013

How long ago did that Pop Tart incident happen? People keep bringing up the same couple of stories over and over again and pretending that they indicate "widespread mental deficiency" as this right-wing blowhard calls it. The truth is however that while there are certainly cases of bad judgment these news reports usually do not tell the whole story as the school is not allowed to talk to the press about behavior problems of the child so you hear the parent's version of events but not the school's.

intaglio

(8,170 posts)
6. And of course there was the bullying and continued disobedience of that Arizona boy
Tue Dec 31, 2013, 06:18 PM
Dec 2013
And, of course, there's the six-year-old boy charged with "sexual harassment" for kissing a girl
and both the girl - you know the person harassed, the one who suffered - regarded it as creepy and her parents regarded it as sexual.

But of course you don't care about the girl only about the poor lad who suffered so badly because boys are so much more important.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
10. This is why I always roll my eyes at these stories
Tue Dec 31, 2013, 07:49 PM
Dec 2013

There are some people that obsess about these stories of kids getting suspended for toy guns, but there are often details like the ones you mentioned that go unreported because the school is legally prohibited from giving the details of what actually happened as doing so would violate student confidentiality.

People act as if the school is freaking out over a perfectly innocent act, but we have no way of knowing what actually happened. Some of these stories of kids getting suspended for playing with imaginary guns could be making real threats against other students and we would never know by the news reports because the school would not be able to report such a thing to the press.

If a five year old kid pointed his finger at me and said "bang bang" I would not take it as a threat, but if a known member of the Mafia did such a thing to me I would see it very differently. While I am not suggesting any kindergartner is the same as a mobster when viewed through our eyes as adults, you have to remember that these are not adults we are talking about these are kids and to a five year old victim of bullying the pint size bully could look very much like a mobster in their eyes. I know that if I had a kid who was being bullied and that bully were to point their finger at my kid and act as if it were a gun I would view it as a threat against my kid and I would want something done about it. Maybe these incidents involve bullying and maybe they do not, but the fact is that none of us know all the facts of these cases and it is tiring to see people attack the schools based on media reports which usually only tell part of the story.

 

alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)
7. Instapundit on DU...lovely
Tue Dec 31, 2013, 06:22 PM
Dec 2013

Any other conservative wingnut bloggers for us to promote today?

Oh, of course, that's just an "attack on the messenger." Sure. And sometimes the messenger tells me all I need to know about the credibility of the argument.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
8. Fuck that shit.
Tue Dec 31, 2013, 07:25 PM
Dec 2013

And anybody who feels like they need to pile on to the growing trend to bash my profession.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
13. I dislike zero tolerance...but it is not the fault of the teachers.
Tue Dec 31, 2013, 10:53 PM
Dec 2013

It is a fault of the system in certain districts. Some are more tolerant than others. In some districts teachers can be marked down or suspended for not taking action.

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