It's very helpful and based on pretty good research and science.

BUT, I think a lot of chiropractors get into woo--lots of herbal stuff, vitamins, crystals, etc.--that has nothing to do with the bone stuff. I usually tell my guy I'm not interested.

there are some benefits to chiropractors. It just is. And they help people, but like all other professions there are some who are just plain out shysters.

My high school son was in severe pain once at school -- pain in his chest -- so I took him to his pediatrician. The only doctor who could see him at the time was an osteopath. The osteopath asked him a couple questions, did a couple maneuvers, and instantly the pain was gone. It turned out that my son's back was growing faster than his muscles could keep up with, and something had popped out of alignment. The pain from that got referred to his chest. I asked the osteopath what he had done. I said it looked like something I'd heard that chiropractors do (never having gone to one.) He said that that's because chiropractors learned it from osteopaths. He also gave my son instructions on exercises to do to help strengthen his back. It's been ten years and the problem never recurred.

I wouldn't see a chiropractor for anything else, but I know many people besides my son who have benefited from their treatment for back pain. My father, also, who would go from time to time when his sciatica was acting up. This is why many M.D.'s will give referrals to chiropractors and insurers will pay for them.

not in the least

Cracking and numbness in jaw, headaches .... gone.

"Woo," alright ....

Woo-hoo!

I still have pains every time I cough, and every few months my back gives me excruciating pain.

My regular physicians said, "That's too bad." They never suggested any way to fix the problem.

My chiropractor gives me an adjustment and I'm immediately better, for at least the next two months or so.

The two work well together, especially since the acupuncture is addressing soft tissue damage/stagnation.

As a teen, I did something to my hip and it became very sore and inflamed. I could hardly walk at all. I went to the family doctor who gave me painkillers and referral to physio. None of that helped so she then sent me to an orthopedic surgeon who gave me multiple x-rays, found nothing, so there was no explanation and he sent me on my way with muscle relaxants, anti-inflammatories and more painkillers. I was 16 at the time. The painkillers did nothing, and I had to quit the anti-inflammatories because I developed severe acute gastritis (which has continued into my adulthood as chronic gastritis). Months passed with no improvement with the meds and physio, so my mom took me to a different doctor. Same song & dance except told me I needed bed rest. That didn't help at all, everything got worse...when it got to the point I couldn't put any weight on it at all, not even to stand up my mom decided to take me to the new chiropractor in town. I was a science geek at the time, reading all the new journals that came out in our library and I balked because I thought chiros were quacks. My mom insisted, and practically dragged me there. The chiro took one look at my lopsided shuffle (I was leaning on my mom to 'walk') and told me exactly what I had, positioned me and cracked my hip. It was instant relief. Instant. When I stood up there was no pain when I shifted my weight. I basically walked out of the office without even a limp.

I still have hip problems, but as long as I go in once a year or so, my hip holds.

I've had other back problems that weren't helped much by a chiropractor, but I still think they are immensely useful for some things especially when western medicine is stumped. I agree they often get involved in some quackery but chiropractic treatment by itself isn't woo.

or you don't know that it worked, or something, and it's still woo.

Or so we are told in this thread.

chiropractic and a Teeter Hang up. They can be good for spinal issues...but its relief not a cure for anything..

But all that other stuff they claim ...allergy relief etc. That's woo

Basically, you're just hanging upside down

its traction using your own body weight. I love it....Osteo doc had me order a Hydraulic traction device for my neck that cost $800! The Teeter Hang Up works MUCH better and for much less cost....

I think the Teeter starts at about $300?

According to the customer reviews, the cheap ones are equal to or better than the Teeter and other name brands. I believe it, the thing is built like a tank. I've been using it for a year with zero issues.

I got my Teeter for $150 off of Woot.com.

Frankly I'm sick of DU claiming it. Do you believe that natural herbs (and the compounds in them) are inert?

Crystals are 100% woo, so you're 1/3rd right.

It's usually tight muscles that pull the skeleton out of alignment. If you could keep your muscles relaxed and reduce knots and tightness, I doubt you'd really need a chiropractor all that often.

I find chiropractic helpful when I really mess up a joint from working outside or just doing something wrong - but I have fallen into the chiropractic can cure other ills in the past and it's never worked for me. But insurance covered it all.

I was have some shoulder/neck/back pain and was prescribed several messages along w/ physical therapy that were covered by my insurance.

But I can just make a phone call on my own, schedule an appointment with a chiropractor and it's covered by my insurance. No doctor referral or doctor prescription needed. No so with massage. I'd much rather have a massage for my aches and pains than a chiropractor. Most of my aches are from stiff/tight muscles, not bone misalignment.

However, we are in Canada so it is supplemental insurance (dental, eye care, prescriptions etc) through their employers. My parents go for a massage appointment once or twice a month. Between my parents putting their 2 policies together, they are 80% covered.

BTW, you are right that the muscles affect your skeleton. When I was pregnant with my 4th child, my hip (see above posting) was super messed up and I was going 3 times a week to be able to keep walking. Finally the chiro told me I needed to work on my muscles to make the adjustment hold. I went for a massage, plus the chiropractor gave me some exercises to try to strengthen specific muscles. Also, I was under strict orders to go home and ice my hip right after my appointments. It worked like a charm. I decreased my appointments to once a week and after the baby was born I only went once and was fine for years afterwards.

The massage place my parents go to also has an in-house chiropractor, so some do see the connection.

before doing any adjusting. It's wonderful. I was shocked the first time I saw him when he did so much muscle work on my back before adjusting it. Way more beneficial than the lame roller table at most chiropractors. Just wish he was on my insurance.

and some are dabbling in serious woo, including homeopathy and other "alternative" options. It's too bad.

Tiny magnet clusters to treat poor blood flow at about $350 a pop. Pathetic.

Woo sells, but doesn't heal.

Never, ever let a chiropractor touch your neck.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/update-chiropractic-neck-manipulation-and-stroke/

Sid

helped after the accident. PT helps (and lord knows I have had lots and lots)...but nothing like a good chiropracter and my Teeter hangup. In fact if it wasn't for the first chiropractor I think I would be on disability by now. Last Osteo doc wanted me to get the computerized injection into the spinal chord. Had I listened to him and done it...I could have been one of those last year that might have gotten contaminated with Meningitis from that treatment....

There are not many good treatments for injured spines...Chiropracters cannot work on everything...but some the can. (if your finger joint is out of alignment and you crack it back...you feel relief...this is the extent of it analogy wise though).

who got rid of my headaches.

for my chiropractor!!

in the same way that acupuncture and phrenology are.

There's something awesome about people believing that the shape of your skull, and the bumps on your head, determined your personality and abilities.



Sid

that you avoid chiropractors that believe in phrenology. You don't want somebody trying to manipulate the shape of your skull.

Sid

Sid

buyer beware. If any ad sounds ridiculous, then just don't ever do business with it.
(I have had good results with chiropractic, but a couple of them were more interested in selling otc supplements.)
I didn't go back to them. BTW, I haven't needed chiropractic for more than 30 years.

...I remember someone telling me he needed to slow down because of a backache. I told him, "When my back hurts, I do some sit-ups."

It was a narcissistic thing to say but there was some truth to it, also. We can cure most of what ails us without giving up our autonomy (and our cash) to an 'expert'.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

an ache from overworking or straining my back is improved with exercise. Last year I went to the gym when my back was sore, and it always seemed to improve and heal better.

On the other hand, the slipped disc/pinched nerve kind of sore back, where you can't stand up straight or really move much without pain - rest is about the only thing that helps that.

on edit: I don't really have any opinion about chiropracters, having never been to one.

"Woo", among with many other things, also rhymes with "humorless asshole"

Lord knows just about every wacked out nutty medical woo has some M.D. vouching for it.

I had a perforated ear drum from a sudden ear infection while I was travelling to see my parents. So I was far from home but luckily here in Canada, I just went to a nearby MediClinic. After getting my prescription for antibiotics and painkillers, the doctor tried to sell plastic surgery to me and my mom! Seriously! He was opening up a bunch of laser treatment and plastic surgery centers in town and was trying to get clients for himself. Geez. He was trying to get my mom to try the new laser facelift.

most chiropractors figure that out for themselves and become common-sense physical therapists. (While keeping the label)

Thus visiting a chiroprator for a sore neck might be beneficial... as might a good massage.

REAL Chiropractic holds that almost all diseases can be treated by adjustment of the spine... leukemia, diabetes, whatever.

And it is grade-A quackery.

The belief that our bodies get "vital energy" from the brain.

Chiropractors used to as a whole discount even the germ theory.

And this "baby neck cracker" is a quack.

Chiropractic itself didn't get "accepted" by mainstream medicine due to evidence.
It was forced on MD's due to political lobbying and lawsuits.

I have seen and will see people say "I feel better due to chiropractic!"

The placebo effect is pretty strong.

All, and I do mean ALL, scientific tests of chiropractic show it to be quackery. Woo.

http://www.skepdic.com/chiro.html

that advertise woo treatment. But my neck gets relief...no doubt about that.

from a surprise jump off the couch I couldn't stop. (They're prone to spinal problems, obviously.) Traditional vet said they could do back surgery, five thousand dollars, and that there was no guarantee it would get my dog walking again.

I did research online with dachshund owners who'd tried traditional and non-traditional routes--because I was desperate, of course--and decided to go doggy chiropractic every two weeks, I think it was, and acupuncture. The acupuncturist also had my dog on Chinese herbs. I was also praying my ass off.

In maybe three months of this, I opened the door to his dog crate expecting to have to scoop him up, carry him out, hold him up while he did his business. Instead he stood up and walked out with a little hobble. The hobble went away in another few weeks. Traditional vets told me to get used to a paralyzed dog; I was shopping for dog carts. "Woo" got him walking again. He's old now and not in fantastic health, but as far as his mobility goes, you'd never suspect he was once paralyzed.

I've no idea how it works or why it works, but it works. And was I ever grateful.

if you don't know the hows or whys, then you don't know it works, period. It sounds like the paralysis wasn't irreversible and was correctable, so its not only possible, but likely that the dog's body was able to heal in about 3 months, despite what you were doing, at least you didn't cause the dog further harm. The veterinarian may be a jackass, but that doesn't validate the woo you prescribe to.

I do...and have had MUCH Physical Therapy...AND a couple chiropractors along the way...its not all woo.

this:

http://www.medicaldaily.com/chiropractor-causes-complete-paralysis-46-year-old-woman-develops-locked-syndrome-after-therapy-rips

People, particularly defenders of bullshit like Chiropractic are overly critical of "traditional medicine" i.e. stuff that works, yet then go to quacks and think that its all unicorns and rainbows.

medicine and alternative medicine.

n/t

the things that give me better relief...even more than pain medication....chiropractor and the Teeter Hangup.

Just saying...I think I know my own slipped discs in my neck pretty well. I wouldn't wish it on anyone...

We use chiro and acupuncture on our sport horses on a regular monthly basis. Treatments administered by licensed main stream vets.

Horse won't endure the saddle before a treatment, won't fuss at all abou the saddle after a treatment. Their brain is the size of a walnut , they can't rationalize or manufacture a placebo response.

I'm glad you were open to trying it for your dog and so glad he found relief. I could care less if some anonymous internet poster thinks its woo. As the owner and caretaker of these animals I'll do what works to find them pain relief.

Oh and by the way the US Olympic team travels with the best vets on the planet who all are trained and administer chiropractic and acupuncture on the team horses. So you're in good company.

head. Upshot was I couldn't raise my head and it made me drastically pigeon-toed in one foot. The medical doctor told my parents essentially that what they saw was what they got..he could not help me.
I was finally taken to a chiropractor. I was still going until around age 5-7 (can't remember it was a long time ago). This man made me whole again..no looking at the ground, no pigeon toe anymore.
I have no problems with a chiropractor. (haven't needed one since)
That was when things worked as they were supposed to. Now pretty much everything doesn't. I'm 71 now.
Edited to add:
I don't even have any back problems at all.

treated me for eight months, three times a week, for free back in the '80s for some residual problems I had after having meningitis/encephalitis. My insurance would only pay $500 toward chiropractic, and he thought that was wrong. I did get better and I was very grateful.

He never stepped outside of the boundaries of his discipline. When I went to see him a few years ago for some pain in my leg, he very quickly determined that it was probably arthritis and not something that he could help and sent me to an orthopedist.

I'm not saying that there aren't chiropractic quacks, but I think if you get a skilled and ethical one, they can be beneficial.

I think "woo" is broadly defined which suits only the individual who uses the term. I've heard oncologists specifically referred to a "woo", textual criticism referred to as "woo", even philosophy as a whole referred to as "woo".

For myself, I define woo as "an imaginary term used by the lazy to illustrate scorn in regards to those things they have little knowledge of." I imagine it's not entirely inaccurate.

...The gave us a list of medical 'professionals' they would not pay for if we went off base for treatment.

Chiropractors were right above witch doctors on the list.

in spmewhere around 40% of cases) doesn't mean that it isn't a valuable drug. I have several family members being treated with it for severe psoriatic arthritis and it's been close to a miracle drug for them. My wife (Chrons Disease) is required to use a similar biologic drug every eight weeks to keep the Chrons at bay. As long as she receives it regularly she is in almost complete remission. Sorry it didn't work for you.

They used me as a guinea pig woth my AS. You can do better with an anti inflammatory diet with that.

with some patients doesn't mean that it won't work well with others. Anecdotal evidence doesn't disprove medical fact.

I just dont believe in enbrel. $250 a week wasted.

It's so sad and disgusting how we don't take ownership in our care. It's pure lazy and as my father used to say - Lazy will kill ya!

she did an xray + lots of diag stuff. xray showed my spine was out of alignment from a fall. she fixed it but along the way, it was extended as she was correcting my odd scoliosis in my 20's. so i'd say it works.

the only ones that call it "total woo" (some of it is) are those that have never had spinal injuries...

He never treats anyone without x-rays and careful examination. He studies nutrition constantly, my doctor never does.

My chiropractor thinks in terms of food as a healing process, my doctor thinks only prescription medication. Prescriptions save lives of course, but nutritional knowledge makes life better.

If you don't like one, just don't go. Please don't discount the success many of us have with them.

If your spinal issues that's causing leg or arm pain isn't bad enough for surgery (I have soft-tissue scarring near the main ganglia around the L2/L3 that causes leg pain and numbness on occasion), then a chiropractor who has actualmedical training in nerve, bone, and joint problems might be a good person to visit several times a year to make sure that spine remains in an alignment that relieve the stress on the affected vertebrae or nerve clusters.

But Indigestion? Infertility? Ear Infections? Infant problems? Hello, Edgar Cayce...

Maybe a chiropractor can help if there's problems in adolescent skeletal development, but anything other than that is just profit-making woo.

And I'm saying this as a family-trad pagan who acknowledges nature spirits...

Haele

I have been a bricklayer for 40 + years. When my back goes out of alignment, I can barely get around, and it's quite painful.
Ten minutes on the table and I'm good to go. I swear by it. That's my kind of woo!
What does "scientific" medicine give us? Dozens and dozens of drugs that later bring class action lawsuits because so much harm comes from them. I avoid doctors and hospitals as much as possible. I went for stitches about 25 years ago.
When your spine is out of alignment (subluxation), your spinal cord is pinched and the nerves that come off the spine are affected.
Depending on the location of the subluxation, these pinced nerves can adversely affect many things. Why is that woo?
As far as herbs go, many of our medicines come from nature.

... by their own profession to stray from that by claiming to be a cure-all. They'd be much more respected if they grew up and entered the modern era. As it is, the best are overshadowed by the snake-oil salesmen.

I think that chiropractic's founding in 1895 is an important clue. Chiropractic was developed when patent medicines were still all the rage, and fantastic claims were made for their efficacy -- but they really need to come into the modern era.

My mother used to mock chiropractors the same way she mocked faith healers. But after a life-changing back injury -- I'd say a good 7 years into this misery -- a new neighbor hauled her off to her own chiropractor and to the hot springs. It made a huge difference in the quality of her life.

Doctors of osteopathy are "woo" as well: http://www.mercola.com/forms/background.htm
And so are Medical Doctors:

Jesus Christ.

The reasoning of the OP seems to be that one chiropractor engaging in "woo" makes all chiropractors practitioners of "woo." To be consistent, that same reasoning same should be applied to other members of the medical profession.

I presume the OP believes Mercola is engaging in "woo" (based on prior interactions on this general topic) - therefore, by the same reasoning, the OP should believe all DOs (Mercola's training) are practitioners of "woo," because Mercola is.

Pretty much anything attributed to him or his website is suspect and not to be taken seriously.

The OP posted an article about a single chiropractor who was practicing what the OP believed to be "woo" - as supporting his position (in multiple prior threads) that all chiropracty is "woo."

Using that same reasoning, I identified a DO who is a practitioner of "woo" and an MD who is a practitioner of "woo" (at least according to definitions of "woo" used previously by the OP.) Using the OP's logic, this means all medicine practiced by MDs and DO's is "woo"

Both of those statements are obviously ridiculous. Not all MDs and DOs are practitioners of "woo" even though there are individual MDs and DOs who are. Just as ridiculous as the OP's assertion about chiropracty, based on his presentation of an article about single chiropractor practicing "woo."

I've read the criticisms, and my "evidence" is my own experience. I find it helps. Maybe exercise would do the same. But I find it rewarding.

Yes, many chiropractors, including my own, have extended their services beyond chiropractic to a range of alternative services. And I'm looking at about a half dozen supplements on my desk that I've been taking on and off for about a year. And when I'm diligent, and watching my diet generally, I am satisfied with the results. Yes, again, maybe I'd have similar results just with a better diet (and that evil exercise). Part of the satisfaction is, I suppose, the idea that I'm taking care of myself, and it is rewarding to have someone take care of me as well, someone who spends the time, helps me focus on what is going on in my life, and is not pressured to see 8 patients an hour, etc.

And, perhaps unlike other chiropractors, mine doesn't hesitate to recommend conventional medicine when needed, for example, x-rays to help identify a specific problem I was having.

So, woo woo all you like. I'm a fan.

machine. I plan on trying that later today to see if it will help.

....here take these pain killers when you have back pain.

....which is about everyday when you consider I've herniated disks four times.

I see a Chiropractor....I don't need the meds for 3-4 weeks.

Now a massage works better IMHO for the lower back pain....but insurance doesn't cover it.

They really aren't that woo, but it is a business predicated on some weird medical theories. Many do get into some questionable practices like homeopathy, high colonics, zen meditation, etc.. Sometimes they do some good, much as any massager or physical therapist can. Often they treat people who have deeper medical problems than they can address and they shouldn't do so. Some realize when they are out of their depth and will refer a patient to a medical doctor. They are very much into making money and love auto accident and worker's comp patients. The guy I worked for couldn't get through medical school so he went to chiropractor college instead. I suspect many are like him.

One tried to tell me that he could cure my asthma, though.

I found a new chiropractor.

My back is all better. I still have asthma. Woo.

He advised her to get a better bed. Showed her the proper way to lift by using the legs instead of the back. Told her that her neck soreness is most likely caused by tension. Advised her to get a back brace and wear it when doing lifting. Suggested doing some exercises to guild up her back muscles. And he cracked her back which she said made that feel much better.

Destabilized my back. Told me he was going to correct a problem. It's been ten years. Had a back fusion, lived on pain pills for years, years of physical therapy, vitamins, acupuncture, massages the works. I rue the day I ever went to see him. Be careful people.

its definitely buyer beware, and there have little oversight and few clinical studies to test safety, much less effectiveness.

Wrenched my shoulder. Excruciating pain. Chiropractor reduced pain by half in a few minutes. Tremendous relief. The rest of the pain slowly went away. I get occasional back pains and go to a Chiropractor when I can't clear it up quickly myself. Cure cancer ? I wouldn't count on it. Know more about nutrition than an MD? Probably. I wouldn't rely on the chiropractic. How many medications is the average American taking? I'm 67. When I reply "none" to a doctor or nurse, they look stunned.

Chiropractic Not Covered
Acupuncture (from a licensed acupuncturist) $45 $3 $15 $40

She said that the California Chiropractic Association is working closely with State of CA governmental agencies to get chiropractic treatment covered by the next ACA open enrollment in late 2014.

Hope this happens!!

Chiropractic has benefited a lot of people - however some of the original theories developed by Daniel David Palmer, the father of modern Chiropractic are as far removed from science as acupuncture - But nonetheless - for a number of back and structural problems - a lot of people clearly have benefited and insurance covers them because the evidence supports that there is a benefit.

harass people whom you think are practicing "woo."

I recall you hanging out in the Astrology Group in DU 1.0. I don't even believe in astrology, and it seemed odd to me.

EVERY time it's tested by science, it fails. Completely.

And are you saying that giving chiropractic to babies is not woo?

As to the astrology group, they were a colossal failure.
They never could show one iota of evidence that their pet beliefs in astrology had any validity.

In fact they threw a royal tantrum when I came up with a simple but concise test.

I severely detest woo, every year people including little kids are maimed and killed by it, and they lose lots of their own money or insurance money to these scam artists.

After a difficult birth, which may have involved vacuum extraction, or a shoulder dystocia, chiro and cranial sacral therapy is very effective to help babies who may be having difficulty latching. It is used a lot. Maybe you didn't realize.

my 2nd daughter had a fairly traumatic birth (although it was easier for me than my first, which ended in a C-section) with a vacuum extraction. She had a large hematoma and torticollis and wouldn't nurse on one side in a normal hold, so I would have to do the football hold on one side, and the normal hold on the other. I went to the chiro for myself after the birth and he noticed right away how my daughter was tilting her head to one side. He said he could help fix that. I totally balked but he said he wouldn't charge me and that it was incredibly gentle. He was right. It's hard to explain what he did, but for all those freaking out right now, there was no 'cracking' or anything like that at all. I couldn't even tell he was doing anything, he was just cradling her head and using his fingers to 'feel' her neck. That was it. She stayed asleep the whole time. The next time I nursed her, I was able to use the normal hold on both boobs. She was totally fine after that and even her doctor was amazed at how quickly she had straightened out her neck.

in just one treatment that way. Latching problems reveal lots of other misalignments since the human newborn needs to be squished in order to be born!

adjusted in seconds, and then tell me chiro is useless.

Chiropractors have amassed a mountain of anecdotal successes, but the tenets of the art/discipline/scam are wooful in the extreme. It's not homeopathy, but neither is it scientific medicine.

People who benefit from Chiropractic care don't give a rat's ass what that poster says about it anyway.

Those particular posts are just flamebait anyway...nothing new.

A sign of insecurity if ever I saw one.

but with some, they go too far. A good chiropractor knows his limits and won't have you coming to see him for nothing, just to bleed you dry of cash. I once saw a chiro who helped me with a vertebrae out of joint, then when I had a shoulder/neck problem I saw an osteopath. He didn't help me at all lol. He had me seeing him once a week. I didn't have to pay extra for him, I was living in the UK and I didn't have to pay extra outside of my national insurance contribution, but it was a waste of time. It eventually cleared up on it's own, at least that's how it seemed. I never felt better after seeing him, not even for a few minutes afterward.

Acupuncture I believe has it's place too. I knew someone who had chronic headaches swear by it. I also have chronic headaches but refused to even try it because at the time I didn't fully understand how it worked. I think if you have an endorphin deficiency which causes chronic headaches, which she had, acupuncture could help because it stimulates more endorphin production. I don't think it would work for everybody though.

If someone posted about a belief in Birtherism here, they'd probably get tombstoned quickly.

Likewise blaming Obama or Hillary for Benghazi.

Or the "Clinton Body Count."

Or creationism.

Or "Obamacare" paying federal $$$ for abortions all th way until birth.

Yet those who use that same demand for evidence, that we'd use on the above?
We get slammed big time, with "evidence" that just does not stand up to scientific scrutiny.

with every ear infection, which is what happens for most kids in the U.S.

Some don't. Can they help with spinal alignment etc? Yes...can they magically cure allergies? No...

Some people just want to believe that it does though...there is a market for that I suppose...

But subluxions? Curing croup? Oh come on that is woo.

And I, for one, am TIRED of hearing the term "woo." Dead sick of it. People are using it too much to describe things they disagree with.

As a matter of fact, I think that you are one of the major culprits in this--If I recall correctly, you are an advocate for genetically modified crops, and anyone who disagrees with you is labeled as an advocate for "woo."

Enough.

But I don't seen any reason to pay a chiropractor to do that. That profession came about in an age when plenty of respectable people (including FDR, if you remember) believed in the healing power of hot natural springs too, but it's not really applicable in the a modern world that has scientifically supported medical treatment for nearly every ailment.