to me, this sums up our terrible misadventure in Iraq.

Part of history for us to be part of.

Insanity plus lack of compassion plus greed plus power is a bad recipe.

Unarmed, of course--wouldn't want anyone to get peppered in the face by accident.

I wonder what we could have done with a trillion dollars that would be better than bribing politicians and pouring it into the Wall Street singularity?

Thank the FSM that our "leader" deferred to his predecessor's plans...

a bad republican idea he couldn't bring himself to advocate.

C'est la vie.

I understand your reluctance to address the issue, you have no argument to make that doesn't sound like an advertisement for the republican party, so it's far better to just keep pretending that "nuh-uh" is an actual argument.

What are your specific criticisms of the policy and what are your specific suggestions either past that could have improved things or present that can improve things?

we've created while denying all responsibility for it), there is nothing to do now. Pretending that the collusion of ten years ago no longer matters, pretending that it was only those evil republicans that caused it all, and declaring that crimes committed by America are not crimes and we will never investigate, let alone prosecute the criminals responsible has already done the damage.

We broke the world in a childish tantrum. Own it.

but no every problem has a solution. Here's my specific suggestion- NOT GO TO FUCKING WAR IN IRAQ TO BEGIN with

However, bear in mind that McCain wanted the troops to stay in Iraq for 100 years, so the "both parties are the same" implication of the poster I was replying to is not entirely correct. The other points the poster made are valid though.

There is no way to undo all the hurt caused by the invasion but there are some policies that could alleviate the problems. But it may be difficult to promote them especially when there is a party doesn't even want to lift a finger to help suffering Americans right on their doorstep.

I'm hardly suggesting more troops, but hey you know what the say about ASSumptions.

10 years later. USA out, Al-Qaeda in.

Now remember this:

1965; Communist run North Viet Nam.

1975: USA out, Communist run over South Viet Nam.


USA! USA! USA! God Damn, We're good.

Which lucky country is going to get our help next?

Heckuva job!

there. It was inevitable.

Expect that to happen too.

business as usual for them...

Yesterday, I re-read Woodward's "The War Within," the last in his series on the Bush presidency. And I was thinking about how, because the media has largely dropped Iraq from its radar, the American public has forgotten it.

I was thinking about the boy who went to high school with my sons, and because of 9/11, joined the military upon graduation. He was killed by an explosive in Iraq. The largest piece of his body recovered was a hand.

There was a big military funeral for him. And I remember the new editor of the town's small, weekly newspaper wrote an editorial, that attacked the Bush-Cheney lies that led to the US invasion of Iraq. It is a conservative republican paper, but even its editor knew that boy died in vain.

Thank you for this, Friend Cali. I had been thinking of writing an OP about Iraq today. But this OP makes that un-necessary.

Your take on things is valuable and always thoughtful.

now we're ignoring Syria for Libya

Last edited Sun Jan 5, 2014, 05:00 PM - Edit history (1)

I hope they do.

security forces, but tend to be indifferent to the aspirations of Sunnis, Kurds and the few Christians left in the country. There are Sunni militias fighting the al queda people, but without coordination with the Shia dominated national forces, the chances of the Sunni militias are poor.

Yeah we go in, we bomb the country back to the stone age, we leave them without an infrastructure, and you want to see if they "have what it takes to defend their own country".

Wow.

but that's in the past... what matters now is what to do going forward. We cant continue fighting a war there so the only other option is for the Iraqis to defend themselves. Would you prefer we send troops back in?

Iraq under Saddam was a westernized state; women went to school, worked, drove, and generally improved the standard of living...which is, by the way, what happens when you educate women. There was infrastructure, and books, and a few things to make life bearable.

The sanctions made life unbearable for the civilian population, and things went to hell in a handbasket.

Then the US came in with shock and awe, and created chaos. The US protected the oil fields, but not the museums. A military base was built on top of an archaeological dig, antiquities crushed to dust, agricultural land destroyed, and the civilian populace terrorized.

In the chaos, the islamists got their chance. What the hell did anyone think would happen? Millions of Iraqis are dead, millions more displaced, and the general blame for all of it is US actions. Now, the US isn't there, and the general hope is that the Iraqis are able to defend themselves. No, they won't be able to defend themselves, and the blame lies squarely at the feet of American intervention...which destroyed the infrastructure, polluted the water table, and left the land littered with military ordnance, including cluster bombs, DU, and white phosphorus, along with any number of chemicals. Cancers are up, birth defects are up, and the hospitals and clinics are under-equipped and overwhelmed.

In all of it, the US has a huge responsibility, which they won't admit, for the destruction. This is the result of short-term thinking and perpetual war.

You either thought the invasion of Iraq was right and President Obama finishing the Bush pullout wrong, or you felt that invading Iraq was wrong, period.

It encapsulates tragedy- the death of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, the destabilization of the region, the reckless spending of a trillion dollars that we desperately need, etc, etc.

Now do you get it?

there are much more important things to talk about.. Like Woo and the Gender wars.

There is no "school of thought" here, the invasion of Iraq was a horrible, deadly, expensive mistake, and anyone who says otherwise is full of shit.