While leaving the rest of us paying the bills.

Last edited Sun Jan 5, 2014, 08:36 PM - Edit history (1)

It will be, though ... and it will tell us a whole lot about the folks who are doing it.

I vow to do my best, with the help of friends, to block any democrats seeking to support a "Grand Bargain".

Corporations that don't need it and will only enlarge the bottom line with zero expectation of job creation. Borrow money because we are getting less due to the tax cuts and start to rebuild the infrastructure to create jobs that the "job creators" do not create because they are not the job creators.
It sound more like a corporate shakedown just to let the government do what governments are supposed to do.
Simply more of the same old tax cut bullshit…fuck them.

Imagine what a final deal could look like.

And it's still a bad plan. Being "slightly more progressive" than the current tax structure isn't much of an improvement. I like Wyden but some of his plans are definitely not good. That's why I wouldn't support him in a presidential campaign.

The current bottom rate is 10 percent. He would be raising taxes on low-income Americans.

He proposes a corporate tax rate of 24 percent.

Wyden has many good ideas but his tax plans are generally horrible.

no income tax on 36 grand or below for a couple

Standard Deduction Amounts for 2013
•Single: $6,100
•Head of Household: $8,950
•Married Filing Joint: $12,200
•Married Filing Separately: $6,100
•Qualifying Widow/Widower: $12,200
•Dependent: $1,000-$6,100

it would depend upon how high he lifts the standard deduction. Currently the 10 percent rate only covers the first 8900 of income. The difference if he raised it by nothing would be less than 500 so if he raised the deduction by only 500, and it sounds like he is raising it by a lot more than that, then he won't have raised their taxes.

A standard deduction is fine, but they'll be sujected to a higher tax throughout the year.

though I concede that likely some amount of their earnings would have a higher marginal rate, but if he raised the exemption by say 9000, then no, none of their income would be taxed at that higher rate. But bottom line, it isn't the marginal rate but the total rate, which matters. To take one example, say Mitt Romney, in addition to his investment income mowed lawns. Now his investment income would be taxed at the capital gains rate of 15 percent after the deductions and exemptions but his lawn mowing income would be taxed at the current maximum rate of 39.9. But his real tax rate would still be 15 and not the nearly 40.

They get paid to let the government fix the roads so that they can make more money. How is that not grand?

before any 'bargains'.

I'm letting you know.

Really?

n/t

ACA was not a "grand bargain." No Republicans voted for the plan, which did raise taxes on high-income earners and the wealthy to help pay for the law.

Reported when the law passed in 2010:

And of course they still didn't vote for it, but they did get him to abandon many beneficial aspects of the legislation such as price controls on drugs and the public option.

You can provide all the little blue links you like but it was only four years ago. Most of us remember.

"And of course they still didn't vote for it, but they did get him to abandon many beneficial aspects of the legislation such as price controls on drugs and the public option. "

The problems negotiating ACA were Democrats like Lieberman, Lincoln, Nelson and Pryor.

"You can provide all the little blue links you like but it was only four years ago. Most of us remember."

And then there are facts:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024270235

As for "drug prices," Medicaid, which has one of the best drug programs, was strengthened by the ACA. Something that needs to happen with Medicare.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024270235

I know you think ACA is the best program to ever get enacted by congress (along with every other bill Obama's supported) but the facts don't change. Most of us do remember what happened.

the stimulus wasn't a "grand bargain" either.

n/t

. . . as the legislation was being crafted. The administration made repeated concessions to Republicans during those negotiations, and got virtually nothing in return.

"The administration made repeated concessions to Republicans during those negotiations, and got virtually nothing in return."

...out of committee is one thing. Passing a bill that expands Medicaid to 17 million Americans is not "nothing." That was not a bill Republicans would support.

And it fixed a few problems created by Republicans: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024270235

As Obamacare Sign-Ups Surge, So Does Conservative Rage
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024270300

Just let the little blue links sweep you away.....

That's excellent. Wouldn't you agree?

and neither had a Grand Bargain. So I'm letting you know.

It seems a bit pedantic to me but it's your God given right to pick nits if you like.

it fits some bizarre hatred of our government or Obama, then it's your Constitutional right.
Who are these officials who "branded" them? Do you have pictures?

It's certainly not a problem when your hero gives away the farm before the other side has a chance to put an offer on the table, is it? I can't help it if you have some need to grovel at the feet of a politician who doesn't give a Damn about you, but I'm not going to be coerced into joining you there.

Obama has screwed up repeatedly with these grand bargains of his and you can't make that fact not true through bullying or very bad attempts at being clever.

but I didn't know you thought he was out to get you personally. LOL
There have been no grand bargains, none. It doesn't matter what you believe to either Obama or me.

Like most who feel the need to protect Obama from all criticism, you've provided nothing to this thread other than insults and misinformation. Good-bye.

and it was necessary.

he was running against Obama in case you didn't know. It sure wasn't a "grand bargain".

Is that your contention?

so it sure isn't a grand bargain. So no, it isn't my contention, its just that I didn't realize you had no clue about how the Federal Reserve Bank works.
Let me make this simple, so hopefully even you can understand. Not only does Obama have nothing to do with the FED buying $85 billion a month in government bonds, he can't stop it by himself.

n/t

Plenty of failed attempts.

Don't you realize how stupid your argument is at this point?

Once the short term stimulus runs out we're left with a smaller tax base which needs to be made up somewhere else. Guess who gets to make it up? It won't be the wealthy.

Too bad our president never seems to learn that lesson but he then doesn't have to worry about feeding his kids.

"Too bad our president never seems to learn that lesson but he then doesn't have to worry about feeding his kids."

...the President made a deal to extend unemployment benefits for a year, some people were outraged.

President Obama: 'Time to Pass Bipartisan Legislation to Extend Emergency Unemployment Insurance'
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/04/1267148/-President-Obama-Time-to-Pass-Bipartisan-Legislation-to-Extend-Emergency-Unemployment-Insurance

Well it does for me. I'm tired of half truths and downright deception. Buh-bye.

"Does the blatant propaganda never end? "

..."propaganda" about stating that people were outraged when the President made a deal to extend unemployment for a year?

"Well it does for me. I'm tired of half truths and downright deception. Buh-bye."

Do you really believe that simply making a statement like that, unrelated to anything posted, makes sense?

The other link is to the recent Weekly Address.

Are you saying that the President calling on Congress to extend these benefits is "propaganda"?

because it's a starting point. Ultimately, the turd is in the American voter's pocket. If they keep electing republicans that wish to destroy them and give their limited, but worked for, wealth to the rich then so be it.

Let the republicans blame Obama for everything.

...won't agree to any common cause with the WH, so they'll wheedle and whine and then shut down the government or something. Anything to avoid a bargain of any sort. Obama would likely give away the farm, but the republicans won't accept it from him.

No more tax reductions for profitable corporations!

This country can't continue for much longer with leaders who strive to outdo each other in coming up with bad policies.

start pushing local government officials you like into state government, and start pushing state government officials you like into federal government. It's a long-term project, and it will require regular devotion of many hours of your time to door-knocking and phone-calling

You want a public better attuned to the issues that concern you? Then start educating people with teach-ins and street-work and other outreach. That's a long-term project, too, and it will require regular devotion of many hours of your time to educate yourself, not only about what the issues are but also about what the locals think the issues are and then about how to convince other people to think about the issues the way you do

You really want to win some of these fights? Then don't go it alone: start building organization to win. And that's yet a long-term project that it will require regular devotion of many hours of your time to educate yourself, to get people interested in, and involved with, community issues and labor issues so they can direct organizational strength at political campaigns and legislative fights and regulatory struggles

You want to whine without having much effect on anybody except getting them depressed and unmotivated? Then just bitch about the President without showing anybody how to get involved effectively

Do you really think you're the only one who has ever made a phone call or canvassed for a politician?


So I'll let you "whine" and "bitch" about how mean people are being to your hero while I advocate against his "grand bargains."

If you want this country to go in a direction that's fundamentally not corporatist, you're going to have to undo about 80 years of policy first (including, incidentally, a lot of the New Deal, so we'll need something to replace that, also), and that's only going to happen after a long, long time where you start at school boards and city councils. Complaining that "Obama is staying within the governable spectrum of current politics" just seems kind of puerile.

There are many of us doing exactly what you mentioned but you automatically assume we're not, which is bullshit. We advocate, we canvass, we run for office. Generally with far less money because our candidates aren't being bribed with massive campaign contributions from corporations.

Mostly, yours is just another tactic used by those who don't want real progressive policies enacted. Slam those who advocate for real change as pot smoking losers so you don't have to discuss the actual policies.

Many of us are sick of these "grand bargains" and we're saying so. If you don't like it, start your own thread praising his brilliant policy that makes the working class pay for roads the rich will use to make more money.

I merely remarked about what works and the amount of effort required to succeed

I didn't vote for Mr Obama because I thought he would win our fights for us: rather, I voted for him because I expected that under his administration we would be able to conduct our fights in a more favorable environment than under his opponent. His election, to my view, did not absolve us of further responsibility to organize and fight but simply improved the conditions under which we might do that

Politics is something like war: whatever one hopes to obtain as objectives, the actual possibilities depend at any moment on conditions in the field, and there are other issues such as logistics, materiel, organization, and personnel

To produce serious change, it will be necessary to engage large numbers of people in the task of producing serious change -- and for a considerable period of time, too

If you only want to complain you aren't getting the change you want, then the simple fact will unfortunately be that you will never obtain that change, because you won't be engaged in the work of discovering what social and economic forces actually produce and reproduce the status quo and what pressures are necessary to modify the current situation

You'd know the reality on the ground. I don't think using words like "your hero" to someone who has been in the trenches is in very good faith.

There is not one office for which I get to vote that is held by a Republican or even a 'moderate Democrat'. That was accomplished by years of organizing and election reforms, which we have done. Done.
How about YOUR State? We have record setting turnout in nearly every cycle. How do YOU do? Who is YOUR delegation to the Congress?

you denounce a call for more organizing work as "smug crapola"

It takes all kinds, I guess

maybe Bernie Sanders will run in 2016.

Bernie Sanders: Supporting the Unemployed (updated)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024240453

so I'll guess your effort -- to portray my call for more organizing work as evidence I'm somehow "Third Way" -- is really nothing more than yet another example of somebody trawling for a reaction on the innertubes

Last edited Mon Jan 6, 2014, 02:21 AM - Edit history (1)

eom

That flaw is attributable to the character in the Kabuki Theater production we are witnessing, but I doubt that the president is operating under that misconception.

when is anyone going to audit the thousands of local govs for corruption, misuse and fraud? The Corps perched in local communities shouldn't get any federal funds if they never pay federal income tax back. (at least to match the 'free gov money')

To be a bargain, the groups negotiating have to be on different sides. When one side offers tax cuts for corporations and the other demands more tax cuts for corporations, what you're watching is not a bargain, it's a confidence trick.

So the official talking point now is that there haven't been any grand bargains? You know, from the people that cheered grand bargains in the past before everyone figured out "Grand Bargain" translated from Third Way means "Fuck You, Peasant!"? That would be funny if it weren't so relentlessly sad.

by corporate fascists who have purchased politicians in both parties and are looting this country and driving it into the ground.

And they have built a propaganda machine.