-Laelth

Those rugged individuals using our public infrastructure and public educated workforce think they can really recreate a world in which they're just as successful without government picking up the tab?

Fools.

that got rich, did get rich by hard work, but he doesn't act like most rich people. He and his wife still hang out with middle-class people and they both treat us with respect.

It's usually middle-class and poorer Republicans, that think every rich Republican got rich through hard work.....like Romney, ha,ha.....you can't convince them otherwise.

be the first one to tell you so....can't understand why he's a Republican, although the other day he shared that his granddaughter, who is on scholarship at UT, and seemingly a very bright young lady, decided to change parties....she's now a Democrat....couldn't help the big smile that welled up inside of me that I couldn't keep hidden.....

cement structures....you know, like yard ornaments, benches, etc., he was fortunate to do well in that business that he then branched out and opened a store that carries all kinds of yard ornaments, as well as many other items. He was able to open up a second store in a nearby city and another one in Houston...he was so successful with that business and was making enough money that he was able to buy a huge ranch and started breeding "Brangus" cattle......he finally sold the stores, and no longer sells cattle, but still has many in his 1000 acre ranch. He still works, although up in age, and has many other business ventures that supply him with cash......he's a real gentleman, not arrogant or self-absorbed like so many that are not even as wealthy as he is.

my wife and I would be rich. We both worked two jobs for years just to scrape by.

How much money can you have before it's assumed you got it by exploiting others?

although I doubt you'll receive a reasoned response.

Would start to put one in the hoarding class, IMHO, though not necessarily.

Otherwise, no one would ever be able to save enough to retire without joining the hoarding class.

them. Like the Kennedy's are living off of, (or many of them) someone in past's generation money. (Of course if anyone has seen "Gray Grardens" they would know some get left off but even those women eventually got help from Jacki O when she found of about them.)

...gets paid more than all the combined paychecks of all 100+ the wage workers under him. He got where he is the old fashioned way; he inherited it from his daddy who built the company and did all the hard work for him. If we are lucky, he might show up three days a week.
He also has a rich sister who is on the payroll. She doesn't bother to come to work at all. We direct deposit her huge "princess" paycheck into her bank account because driving 12 miles to pick it up is too much work for her.

The CEO where I work makes ... hellifiknow. Not exactly sure who I would ask to get that information as talking about what you make at work is pretty much taboo, and asking about upper management pay is unheard of. As far as where that CEO is??? Not sure what kind of answer I would get if I wandered up to his office on the second floor and asked his personal assistant where he was. Most likely some sort of inquisitive look before politely asking me to leave her office ... and about thirty minutes later my direct supervisor asking me WTF I was thinking, assuming I was not simply escorted from the building.

A CEO is generally an elected representative of a corporation, corporations generally do not get passed down to offspring. Large amounts of shares of corporations get passed down. If this is the rare case and the corporation did get passed down and you have a CEO who is not qualified it is best he does not show up often ... lest he fuck things up. But, if the company you are working for is continuing to do business and keep 100+ employees employed I would assume that CEO is, in fact, doing something right.

As far as a sister who gets whatever cause she is related to whomever, not really any of your business unless you are a shareholder. My checks are direct deposited as well ... cause it's just easier that way.

I meant "president".
The topic of this thread is how bosses claim how he/she has earned his/her huge check because he/she works so hard.
Nice how you distracted from the topic at hand.

As for his sister being paid to do nothing because of chance of birth, the fact that she doesn't even bother to come by the office to pick up a check she didn't earn is totally is the point of the topic of this thread.

Oh, but how dare I question such unfairness. Clearly you think I should know "My Place" as a mere wage earner.

I'm just calling BS on your reply, that's all.

Now you may have well made a mistake, or it could just be fabrication.

How do you know how much the owner of the company makes? In most cases when you are speaking about someone who, by your comments, is making at least 3M a year, they will defer their compensation or take other means to avoid taxes. If not, and he is drawing straight salary then he should be commended for paying his fair share of taxes.

How is it that you know what you know? Certainly a "mere wage earner" would not have access to that kind of info.

And how do you know what his sister does?

It would not be unusual for a private firm employing over 100 people to have at least one sub company to control payroll, or lease property/vehicles ...

I remember the years when I was self employed that the people who worked for me assumed I did nothing all day ... after all, they never saw me doing anything.

As if.

This thread is about people who claim they are rich and worked hard to get there ... your post is a rant against what you think your boss does or does not deserve, and his sister too.

you are more concerned with how I know these things more than the fact that they don't work hard.
I've worked here almost 20 years. So I hear and see things.
For example, the president's office is near enough for us to see him in there most of the time reading the newspaper. He actually leans back and puts his feet up on his desk while doing this. So it's hard to miss. I mean, when he's not out golfing or attending a basketball game.
His sister tried to work here but proved to be too incompetent at her job.
What would happen if I proved to be incompetent at my job?

Seems to me this man, who doesn't do anything, has offered you twenty years of stability. There are a lot of people all across this country who wished their boss was as incompetent as that.

So he's reading the newspaper ... no idea what field you are in but there are notices for bids and all sorts of things a president of a company would find useful in the newspaper, every single day.

Lots of contracts and deals are locked up over a game of golf, and taking clients to sporting events is ... well, his job. When our sales people take our customers to ball games they expense it, and there are plenty of workers on the floor who think that these sales people don't do squat ... yet, the work is there on the floor and they have a job because of it.

Lots of people see and hear things, hell some people here think I know very little ... and they are wrong; some people think I know a lot ... and they are wrong. You think this person doesn't "work hard" because you see him reading the paper with his feet on his desk, the horror!!

Yet for the last 20 years you have had a steady job, should everybody be that lazy.

Still doesn't explain how you know what the owner of the company makes. Or his sister.

I'm sure he does. His father built the company. It's his money. He can shut the plant tomorrow and pocket all of the money if he wants to. If he wants to pay his sister for doing no more than being his sister, that's his choice.
I am also grateful for the job. The president's staff is doing a great job of keeping this business going so well for so long.
But that's not the topic. The topic is does he work hard for it. Remember?
Sitting on your ass reading a newspaper looking for leads is hard work? Going to ball games to entertain customers during working hours sounds like fun!

I simply gave an example of a boss who's rich because he inherited his money, not because he worked hard for it. In response, you are defending a person you know nothing about because you assume I just want to rant. Calling me a liar because a lowly wage earner like myself shouldn't know what the more important executives are doing.

But if you must know, I have several friends in accounting. The reason I don't explain to you in greater detail is because this is an era when working class people have no rights. They can be and have been fired for something they said on the internet. Are you trying to get me fired?

And I give zero fucks about those who think I did not earn it.

Is their hard work making them rich?

He knows how much he pays his employees. Unless he lives in a bubble, he has an idea of how they are doing. That is, unless he gives "zero fuck" about them.

I have had coworkers that one would suspect is much "richer" than am. That is because they financed 95% of a huge house and buy expensive cars (and toys, clothes, etc.). However, I live waaaaay below my means and put about 40% of what I make into savings. I certainly don't feel bad that I have accumulated what I have because I choose to live on so much less than my peers do.

In the legal profession it's quite important to make sure your employees are not compromised by heavy debts. your entire business would be at risk if they were susceptible to bribes or blackmail.

You are fucking comedy GOLD.

That's why she's happy to be paying taxes in Britain now at the top rate

http://www.businessinsider.com/jk-rowling-on-high-taxes-2012-9

Rowling loves her country, and she wants her kids to grow up there. And, as someone who once depended on the safety net designed to help those going through hard times, she feels a debt to her society.

Here's Rowling in the London Times (via Chris Bertram of Crooked Timber and Frank Black) :

I think we may see much more such ethical behaviour soon, but I'm usually told I'm a dreamer. Regardless, I'm happy to learn of JK Rowling's position.

No one and i mean no one would be wealthy with out help from taxpayers or from other wealthy who did take advantage of others for their wealth, no mans a island, not even athletes or artist, systems and help matter and no amount of hard work can change that, no one does it completely solo even though we would like so much for this to be true.

If you can not understand we are connected and those connections determine more than anything what we can achieve in life i would say you are incredibly short sited.

If I work my ass off in college and then in law school, hook up with a firm and then work my ass off and make partner -- I should feel bad about my success both career and money-wise?

If I open a diner that sells kick ass home cooked meals, and then am so good at it I open a 2nd location and add a food truck - I didn't work hard.

So that makes you a parasite, or something.

Now I haz a parasitic sad. Damn me and my hard workin ass.

"They" are saying your employees are at least a big part of the reason for your success and should be given credit. "They" are also saying that the government helped you with the roads and schools that helps your business be successful. If you are paying your folks a living wage, you are one of the good ones, regardless of your personal work ethic. If you are not paying a living wage, you are one of the bad ones, again regardless of your work ethic.

Why aren't they rich as well?

If anything, you argument is disproving the point you are trying to make. If everybody has equal acces to those roads, one of the biggest remaining variables would be work ethic.

College and law school are not free. If you were able to do all that stuff you had one of four funding sources:

You have family money behind you.
You play sports well enough to get an athletic scholarship then studied hard enough to attract money for law school.
You are in an ethnic group that hasn't got enough lawyers, and are brilliant enough to receive a lot of targeted scholarships.
Or, like most lawyers, you took out enough loans to build a skyscraper in Bangladesh.

The food thing? That's almost always family money or your own scrimping, saving and credit card debt. You can't get an SBA loan for a restaurant because almost all restaurants fail.

No one gets rich on their own.

It happens.

Bill and Hillary and Chelsea, Robert Reich, Al Franken, John Kerry, Mark Warner, Jimmy Carter, Claire McCaskill, most Kennedy's, etc, etc, there's plenty more...

oh, and Barack and Michelle.

What should we do with these folks?

I put Horatio's name in quotes for a reason: we are looking for a name of a person who decided he was going to be rich and, through hard work with no help from anyone, became rich. Suddenly your list evaporates. Expand this to the people who fit into Alger stories - hard work and rich benefactors - and you cover almost everyone there.

My response was to the following...
"Nobody gets rich from hard work, they get rich by taking advantage of others who work hard"

I find the above to be rather nonsensical. Too many things are undefined, to begin with.

and others I supervise, who, through their hard work, live comfortably.

but I still am living very comfortably because of my hard work.

and because of my hard work, I've moved up through the ranks to the position of Supervisor.

workers in Asia making the 1% wealthy, which is what the thread is about.

I can't read it any other way.

And as far as how you read it, well, that's on you.
I hope you have a good day today, hope you're not in the extreme cold of the country, if so, stay warm and safe.

..... chime in to one of these threads with the right-wing BS (I know coincidence right?).... "I never received a pay check from a poor person" after he bragged constantly about being a fireman. When called on it he claimed he worked hard and some of their budget (turned out to be like 5%) came from private payments/insurance.

LOL. Same shit different day.

And the sign up date correspond with the other poster leaving. How WEIRD!

your command. That is why there is a CMJ for the conduct of personage for the Armed Services.

But that doesn't mean exploitation is happening at some level. There's usually some physical component of your job/business that has either involved exploitation overseas in mining, manufacturing, etc., low wage domestic labor, or you benefited from some sort of government help.

you're a producer or a parasite, both can be rich. Our economic problems stem not from too many rich people who make things but from too many rich parasites who suck up wealth and produce nothing of value in return.

In fact, nobody has ever even told me that they "got rich", let alone how.

but what, I'm not sure.

What's "EPIC!!!!" about this?

rec

K and R.

This type of knowledge will get our pov out of the emotional and into the grounds of reason where real world solutions can be found.

I've not read the book yet, but am wondering if raising the minimum wage comes up at all? These entrepreneurial types are frugal, intelligent, and hard-working, but I wonder if a study comes up as to exactly what percentage of their wealth is gleamed from keeping those wages down, and artificially creating an underclass to do the dirty work?

if that was part of the study/analysis.

I do recall that in one of the appendices they listed the occupations of the people they used for their study population and I am pretty sure that some (or more) do employ people and you can assume that some of them are paid at or near the minimum wage.

Much has changed since the tech boom of the 90s.

The right parents, the right location, the right timing, knowing the right people.

ie: women and other "minorities" will always make less than white males - at least in the US - I don't know if that holds true for entrepreneurs but I'm guessing it does.

I would imagine it holds true for entrepreneurs as well. I'd bet it's still easier for a while male to borrow/raise start up money than it is for a minority.

A lot of people I know who are successful (not sure they qualify as rich) did it by working crazy hours and/or moonlighting in college to get the degree they needed for their success. They lived on three or four hours of sleep a night for years. This could be near to impossible for a person with health issues.

Look at the idiot wingnut and point out that they would like to be rich too....

....so they'll never have to work again.

We earned our very modest retirement by having the good luck to work union jobs for much of our working lives and the very good luck of remaining relatively healthy.
We got the comfort part the old fashioned way, we inherited it. Not a fortune, but a lot more than we'd have otherwise.

you did or did not do? That you are in control of everything?

Oh...never mind...

had their 1st house paid for by Mummie and Daddy and inherited both parents homes and money. The wife is constantly telling me how "hard" she and her husband had to work for everything they have. They don't contribute to anything or anyone that I know of. Cheap and greedy.

We don't get together a whole lot.

Oh and on edit of course bitch and whine about how their tax dollars go to support deadbeats.

but it doesn't lead to riches. Personally, I don't care. I like to work and I'm good at what I do, and its beginning to look like I may be able to retire someday - health insurance is affordable to me now, and I've a little bit put away. That's wealthy by the standards of much of the world, and by the measure of nearly all of human history. Good enough for me.

My parents started poor but my father worked hard and gave us a middle class upbringing. My wife's story is similar. We both had student loans that we paid off long ago. We worked hard, invested wisely and lived prudently. The house is nearly paid off and our retirement is well funded. We're pretty well off and some might even say rich. We didn't exploit anyone and we used the same infrastructure that's available to everyone.
It pisses me off when I see rich people stereotyped because I know the people who are doing it would be screaming if they saw a racial, sexual or any other kind of stereotype applied. That smacks of hypocrisy in my opinion.

I am thankful for the good fortune my wife and I enjoy, but I make no apology for it.

for every rich parasite there are likely 10 rich/well off people who got there the honest way.

Fresh out of college I arrived in San Francisco in 1985 with the clothes on my back, a 1971 Toyota Corolla on its last legs, and an Electrical Engineering degree. I worked my ass off and lived like a college student for the first 15 years of my career. I drove cheap used cars (all Toyotas). Now, 29 years later I suppose I could be considered "rich". The irony is I now work about half as hard, my outside investments make more money than my $150K/yr job with practically no real "labor" on my part. If you are half way smart with money, have planned well, understand the concept of "opportunity costs".... it will pay off well down the road.

to feel better about not being well off themselves.

you often have to be a motherfucker to get rich. being a sociopath doesn't hurt.

any of the lower level wealthy people I've ever met aren't the smartest people, but they have drive, gumption, and the keen ability to shut their heart off and get paid. Even if it hurts other people.

I've attached myself to people like this since forever. If you can make them even more money, they keep you around. You certainly don't experience hunger or being broke.

Even the poor buy cheap Wal-Mart crap (made by even poorer women and children in other countries) so they can make ends meet.

The richer you are, the more you took advantage of this very sick and corrupt economic system. Sorry that you feel you never took advantage of anyone to get your riches, but you did. And so did just about everyone in the US.

It is because our capitalist economic system is broken and full of abuse. You know that saying, "behind every great fortune is a great crime." You can say you never committed a crime to get your wealth but the crime was already committed by capitalists in your name, in the name of your country. The rich capitalist and corporations commit the abuse and you go along with it. They claim it's just how an economy works but it isn't. It just how the uber rich capitalist want it to work. Now they can say you are a criminal, just like them. You bought that shirt from them who abused other poorer people to get it. You participated in the crime by buying their products and keeping quiet about the abuse.

It's just how capitalism works.

On the one hand, when most people talk about working hard, what they really mean is they worked smart and hard and made consistently good decisions and made the best of their opportunities. I could dig ditches my whole life (or work in in a sweat-shop the like the OP's post), but I would never get rich, because that is not very smart.

And it is not all luck, like some posters assert. Luck certainly plays a role, and you almost have to stay healthy, but if you continue to do the right thing, you tend to make your own luck. And just so we are clear, I am talking about generically rich. Say top 10%. The ultra-wealthy, that usually has a lot of other external factors involved, especially inherited money.

On the other hand, I completely agree that everyone's success, no matter how modest, is built upon society's wealth built up over thousands of years. NO ONE "started from scratch". Even the penniless immigrant is standing on the shoulders of the billions who have come before her and bestowed our current societal riches upon her and her generation.

But when folks start to get so egocentric that they become dismissive of those people and institutions that have helped them, I have a problem. There are too many of that type.

Wealth is an incredibly complicated topic.

It is a many-faceted and nuanced topic. This graphic refers, I believe, to those snooty rich who demean, deny, disrespect and disregard the hard work of those who either work for them or those who - through no fault of their own - find themselves in financial dire straights even though they worked hard and played it smart. Those people are told they're "lazy" when that is far from true. They deserve a decent day's pay for a decent day's work and a safe working environment and healthcare. They deserve a decent job. Just some basics. But there is a certain arrogance on the part of some of these rich - the Koch Bros for instance (who inherited their wealth) - that others who for whatever reason find themselves in trouble financially - don't deserve a decent life - even if/when they worked for it. The graphic refers to those who got up the ladder - but then want to pull it up behind them, own it, lock it away so that no one else can use it. And who sneer at and despise those entities and people who helped them get to their station in life - ie: their/the workers, the public services they use or used, etc.

That's who it refers to.

Thanks for the post!

need to get out more.'

Editing to say I would unrec if I could.

see reply #69 above

CEOs aren't earning multiple millions, they're winning a crooked lottery; and real lottery winners pay taxes.

by working hard, with ZERO family help/nepotism, with ZERO trust funds, simply grunting away like a regular working stiff.

...rather than the hands-on high-achiever. (at least, that's what the image says to me)

a misunderstanding.

And I do very much agree Romney's wealth was ill-gotten, very much so.

Thanks.

Work smarter...

Some of the hardest working folks you can find are poor and working class at best.

Very few folks dig ditches to riches, nobody wipes asses to fortune, there is no stripping floors to wealth, nor are migrant workers picking produce to by yachts.

There folks in India right this moment sleeping under their desks from exhausting 18 hours of wage slavery, I bet not a one owns a Bentley.

I'm not trying to minimize anyone's efforts or imply that their gains are ill gotten but that the principle is dubious at best. Most folks in this world work hard for jack apple shit.