When I read that was his 4th tour, I knew that he didn't fly off the handle for nothing. This guy has been seeing death at every turn. I read another one where an Iraq vet shot his 11 year old sister.

They are not being taken care of.

I've known plenty of people who's deployed 4 or more times, though.

He's a drill sgt now.

He used to be the nicest guy around and now he's a complete alcoholic jerk. I don't know what happened to him there, but he's nowhere near the same man we knew before.

Why isn't the military dealing with these multiple deployments?

With Iraq going away. It's not the military's fault. Civilian leadership dictate the size of the military and the missions its given.

were expected during Vietnam? Or WW2 or others? I'm curious. I have no idea.

You could then re-up for additional tours, with the usual incentive for conscripted troops being to reduce your stateside service. Re-ups were generally 4-6 months more (three tours could be less than two years, if you considered each re-up a tour). Career military and officers could re-up for longer deployments, but deployments longer than the 12 or 13 month initial deployment were strictly voluntary.

World War 2 deployments were "for the duration," as deployments generally were in all previous wars. Of course, that rarely meant continuous combat duty, as units were often rotated out, sent to rear positions, and the like.

for your answer.

I wonder why this voluntary action dosen't seem to work the same way now days?

1) The reason tours could be limited to 12 months is because you had a virtually endless supply of fresh troops through conscription. It should also be noted that the fact of conscription also raised voluntary enlistment numbers, at least through the early periods of the war (1965-1966). You didn't need to send the same guy back because you had a new guy coming off the conscription assembly line that day. Not so much in the "professional" military. When everyone is "career" military in theory, everyone is treated that way for deployment. Career military people generally did more than their 12 month tour in Vietnam, too.

2) Voluntary re-up was also a function of conscription: you had a two-year commitment (in some cases, three) with conscription. Twelve months of that may be in country. Then you had another twelve to do in some horrible bore factory like Leonard Wood - a fucking nightmare for a 20 year old. So, the military gave you a choice: take another 6 months in country, and you're done, finished, DEROS and out. Now, you might think that anybody in their right mind would sit in Leonard Wood for a year rather than hump the Central Highlands for even another day, and that's likely true. But the vast majority of people who served in Vietnam were NOT "frontline" combat troops, but logistics and other rearward support. The vast majority. Vietnam had some ludicrous "tail-to-tooth" ratio, meaning the ratio of support troops to combat troops. So, quite likely, you weren't spending your time taking hilltops at Dak To or humping the A Shau Valley (though, certainly, a fair share were doing just that), but unloading beer or pushing paper in some rear position, or sending out artillery from some Americal Division super base, never saw the fucking enemy even once. In which case, taking the extra six months rather than a year of being shit on by some old sergeant stateside seems pretty appealing.

we were give a 30 day leave between tours. I believe the Marines were required to serve 6 months, but were incentivized (ie: you WILL do it) to serve 13 months. It's been a while, but I believe that is correct.
(I for damn sure remember jarheads busting our chops about that one extra month!)

Afghanistan has been going on for how long now? Ten going on eleven years? That's nine too many. The only way to win in Afghanistan is never to go in, but if you find yourself there through some stupid accident LEAVE IMMEDIATELY. Now to be fair, for 8 of those 11 years we had a total dumbass for President...

But as of three years ago, we have no excuse.

We should be three years gone from that fucking place, if not more. That little surprises like the Koran burning incidents, the corpse desecrating incidents, thrill killing sprees, and the family executions keep happening should be no surprise at all. These are all implied in the decision to go to war and then squat on an alien people for a protracted period. President Obama may have no prior military experience to inform him of these pitfalls, but he can fucking READ and REMEMBER at least as well as I can. He had the example of our descent into barbarism in Indochina and Mesopotamia right in front of him, and he chose BADLY anyway.

but it was still too long. I initially supported going into Afghanistan directly after 9/11, but bush wanted Iraq first and foremost. The longer we stayed in Afghanistan, the worse it got. It pains me to say this, but we need to divest ourselves of that country. I do not believe there is any more we can do there.

But then she is a Dem female and gay so Thugs would just shrug and say "So what". She does not deserve rights.

for the rest of us

were enough of a taste for me.

As people here call him all kinds of names, they forget...

There is a good chance that his lawyers will earn him at least leniency. I will not be too shocked of all he gets is "a slap in the wrist" if they prove what I suspect is going on. In that case I expect outrage from usual quarters.

We should be talking of the very broken force...

And yes even the military justice system has to take into account the mental state of the accused. In this case the court martial will be not just of the sergeant... that is the obvious one. The whole army and repeated deployments will be at trial too.

And there is no way that the Army is going to come out of this smelling bad...so let's be realistic, he's got about a 10-20% chance of leniency, but it's more likely he'll spend time in prison, get busted, and receive a dishonorable.

I worked at JAG for about 3 months once, the judge has a lot of leeway...things may not go as easily as you think. Look at the current case of Major Nidal...how long has it been since he shot those people at Ft Hood?

Just one deployment, Desert Storm...a little shooting, but they missed!

Another is how the military already looks.

They are already under trial in the court of public opinion.

I expect some time and dishonorable. But if they were thinking capital, SecDef already blew that for them. And that was a political statement.

As to Major Nidal, I missed he actually deployed, regardless medical corp, unless field medic, is usually no longer anywhere close to the shooting.

That fact that he had a previous brain injury and PTSD, not to mention losing part of a foot, should have been enough to not send him on another tour.

I've known of John Browne, his attorney, since the 70's and he's good.

It sounds like he had no business being sent back for another tour.

People knew about his history and still he was sent there. I hope some heads roll for this because they will have had a hand in what happened.

granted,he just had a blown up leg.....

one more deployment after that one

in the hospital and now he's been re-deployed???

This is the kind of stuff I expected before we invaded and occupied Afghanistan over ten years ago.

That is why I was so militant against doing it. I knew this kind of thing would happen if we did.

Glad you made it home.

Don

traumatic brain injuries can cause personality changes, loss of impulse control, and rage. A severe head injury is a common factor in many serial killers, for instance. Couple that with PTSD and the stress and strain of four deployments to a combat zone and quite honestly the military has some questions to answer about how it screens for fitness and about its policies in deploying soldiers for multiple combat tours.

At some point, doesn't this multiple-deployments thing constitute "troop abuse"...?

The first was in Iraq.. He's now in Afghanistan.. inside the base that people came to protest against for burning Koran's.. Anyway, he says its 10 times worse than being in Iraq.. On top of it all, they have this over all mission of "winning hearts and minds".. so if Afghani's start throwing rocks, they can not retaliate or protect themselves (just duck and cover).

He was recently on a convoy transport, the Afghan kids pulled up beside the transport for a bunch of humvee's and started stripping them of parts. By the time they realized it, there were missing doors and bumpers and tires... They are intruders and if they are stupid enough to bring in expensive shit, they take it and there is a general "winning hearts and minds" type of attitude. Its frustrating as all hell to be a soldier on more of a humanitarian mission. If this guy had become frustrated by these day in and day out types of issues that happen, he may have just snapped. I know my brother in law is so ready to come home... and they aren't doing shit. It doesn't matter if they leave tomorrow anymore than if they extend it another year.

I do know the soldiers wish that the govt would take some money and build up a WPA and Army Corp of Engineers so that they could leave the armed services and have a job that they know and that actually does something for America.. because the current mission is just a waste of money for tax payers.

as a contractor.(after 4 tours as a soldier)

Why do I keep seeing images of Christopher Walken in "The Deer Hunter"?
It makes me so fucking sad.

was more than enough for this ole jarhead.

it is part of our culture at this point. It doesn't matter what the cost to human beings.

I do get that some people, especially someone who has been injured and has been deployed so many times, can crack.

But we could say the same for those we call 'terrorists'. They too are traumatized from decades of war in their country, from living in fear of the occupiers, from seeing their loved ones killed and tortured and imprisoned.

If we are going to extend understanding, and I think we should, to a soldier who went on a rampage, then the same understanding should be extended to those fighting in their own country against an invasion they did not want and under which they have suffered greatly.

End these wars. I think those of us who opposed all of them, including Afghanistan, from the beginning, are not surprised at all at the results, which is why we tried so hard to stop them. And still we are hearing the drums of yet another War, this time with Iran, by the same old chicken-hawks, none of whom will ever be anywhere near the battle-field, not even to collect the spoils for which all of these wars are fought.

There is no noble cause, there never was.

Makers.

It goes on and on and dibilitates everyone involved.

I read the experiences here and it it's devastating...but, I'm of the Vietnam War Generation. Lost several classmates who never should have died and watched our country torn apart by it.

This is like reliving it. And, so many worked so hard to stop it all.

Reading here...and seeing it replay...

I fear, though that we will be into Syria, Iran and then Sub-Saharan Aftrica. It was laid out in the Project for New American Century way back...and it's playing out the way they wanted. The rest is only "glitches" in their plans. And, this administration is no different. They are working the plan according to their timetable ...but, it's still the plan that's in place.

He'd gotten back a few months before from his third EOD tour. He knew he was going back for number four. What the modern military does to the young people on the "point of the spear" is unimaginable, and 4 combat tours for anyone but a very senior lifer was totally unheard of until very recently.

It was inevitable that one of these soldiers would eventually turn the gun in the other direction.

He did four tours but they have had it far worse then this guy could ever dream of. He wasn't there selling cookies.

in another situation that is occuring at Madigan - medical part of Lewis-McChord. This is where soldiers diagnosed with PTSD are re-diagnosed as not having PTSD by the psychiatric unit there. The head of Madigan has been suspended while there is an investigation. He lectured the employees on how much it costs to cover a soldier's PTSD diagnosis.
He even reversed diagnosis of traumatic brain injury when the MRI showed damage to the brain in another soldier.

I feel for Bales and all the others who have been pushed to their limit and beyond. I am pretty sure that he did not have intentions of becoming a murderer as his previous tours can attest. I have not talked to anyone who doesn't feel for this guy.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017692555_madigan08.html

When I hear the armchair warriors yelling for war in Syria and Iran - I want to scream. It will be these same soldiers - volunteer army - who will be called to even more tours in war.

The other is dead from an overdose. He was a sweet kid who was vulnerable and came home with PTSD and a habit.

I'm sorry for what you went through. I'm a therapist and see people who've been there. You're right. Thank goodness, most of us will never know. That's what they mean when they say "sacrifice", eh? Thank you for yours. And I'm sorry it happened.

not in combat though. I remember as a kid in the 80's he would look around nervously when we took trips to the woods.

Even those who werent in combat come back a little off. I cant imagine what Bales experience did to him.

You're hunting for people who are hunting for you. Thou shall kill is an immoral concept. One tour,67 - 68 Tet, Operation Billings, Iron Triangle, War Zones C and D........
Came home alienated. We don't get over it. We learn to cope.

Why send him back after the PTSD diagnosis? Obviously, being in a war zone has affected him psychologically; unless a person is a sociopath, killing others, especially where the 'enemy' is not clearly defined, deeply affects one's psyche.

I'm actually surprised we haven't seen more of this. Heartbreaking all the way around.

There are victims all around.

I hope this tragedy means we bring 'em home. It is way past time, for all concerned; Them, and us....

so, yeah... we can entertain that.

I want to give this guy the benefit of the doubt, I seriously do. But I was under the impression that the TBI thing was being walked back, and had taken a backseat to "drunk".

Someone really fucked up here, and I am sick over the pain and anguish this guy caused.

Sound clean "rate." It's a fucking sad sorry state of affairs. Why can't Mr. President just get them the fuck out start drawing down tofuckingmorrow.

No, I never did have a tour.. but I get it. Love ya!!!!!!

It is disgraceful, sickening, criminal, IMO what they are doing to people... thiers and our.

"Would you let the system make you kill your brother. man? " "No, dread, no."

"Would you let the system get inside your head again?"

"No, dread, no"

It's you, it's you, it's you I'm talkin' to...

In this life, in this life, in this life,
In this, oh sweet life:
We're (we're coming in from the cold);
We're coming in (coming in), coming in (coming in),
coming in (coming in), coming in (coming in),
Coming in from the cold.

It's you - it's you - it's you I'm talkin' to -
Well, you (it's you) - you (it's you) - you I'm talking to now.
Why do you look so sad and forsaken?
When one door is closed, don't you know other is open?

Would you let the system make you kill your brother man?
No, no, no, no, no, no! No, Dread, no!
Would you let the system make you kill your brother man?
(No, Dread, no!)
Would you let the system get inside your head again?
(No, Dread, no!)
Well, the biggest man you ever did see was - was just a baby.

In this life (in this life),
In this (in this life, oh sweet life):
Coming in from the cold;
We're coming in (coming in), coming in-a (coming in),
coming in (coming in), ooh! (coming in)
Coming in from the cold!

It's life (it's life), it's life (it's life), it's life (it's life):
it's - wa - well! - coming in from the cold!
We're coming in (coming in), coming in (coming in) -
ooh (coming in), hey! (coming in),
Coming in from the cold!

It's you - you - you I'm talking -
Well, yes, you, bilyabong! (it's you);
ew! - you I'm talking to now.
We-e-ell, why do you look so - look so - look so sad -
look so sad and forsaken?
Don't you know: When one door is closed - when one door is closed,
many more is open?

We-e-e-ell, would you let the system get on top of your head again?
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Dread, no!
Would you let the system make you kill your brotherman?
No, Dread, no!
We-e-e-ell, would you let the system get inside your head again?
(No, Dread, no!) No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no!
Well, the biggest - biggest man you ever - ever
Did-a see was-a - was-a once a baby.

In this life, in this life, in this life,
In this, oh, sweet life,
We're (coming in from the cold) from the cold!
We're coming in (coming in), coming in (coming in),
coming in (coming in), wo-o! Yea-ea-eah!
Coming in from the cold

We're coming in-a, coming in-a, coming in-a, coming in-a!
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yea-ea-ea-eah!
Coming in from the cold
Coming in (coming in), coming in (coming in) -
(coming in) (coming in)
(coming in) from the - from the cold!

☮ccupy

with a sadistic streak, that had probably enlisted with the idea in his head of "killing as many 'rag-heads' as possible".

After finding out the guy was a 38-year-old staff sargeant with a wife and young kids, it totally shocked me, and figure that he had to be seriously fucked-up emotionally by the entire war experience to even think about doing what he did. An incredibly tragic situation all the way around.

Our society is responsible for creating these "Frankensteins". It is a direct product of the mind fuck that combat produces. No one wins wars, but politicians.

Good luck to you 11 Bravo.