My wife sometimes makes me shut up about it though.


Generally, though, she's right. I can be obnoxious and the older I get the worse I get about it.


20something years ago when I was first realizing I didn't believe I was pretty quiet though.

And my response is often provided with no mute button

I know exactly what you mean.


My wife no longer lets me answer the door on saturday mornings if she thinks that knock might be one of the local flavors of religious visitation. She doesn't want the neighbors to hear ...lol

I will walk proudly around town in my Atheists of Utah shirt and watch 'em scatter. But I do understand that there are better people than me out there, who actually care about their neighbors ' feelings.

I feel as if I have to hide this part of myself--so people will not think that I am a tool of the devil!!

I wish I could be more like you--and just not care. However, I feel as if I would be judged. I feel
that you are being more authentic than I. Maybe that is something that will come with time. I'm
42, but only in the past decade or so have I realized that I don't identify with any organized
religions at all.

I'm perfectly comfortable with being loud n' proud. Others aren't. Eventually you'll find your comfort zone too.

it either. religion or lack of it is a personal thing.

I'm more than happy to debate co-workers, family or whomever on the subject. I don't hide it at all.

Do you realize that there are many Christians at DU who are none of these things?

...and I have friends who attend church on Sunday--who are kind, wonderful and they truly
live their lives in ways that mirror Christ's teachers. However, I will say that the vast
majority of religious people that I have met--do not fit this description. They ARE judgmental
and very closed minded. I would also say that most of these highly religious types who
are negative as I described--are also very far right politically.

You should probably go visit a Unitarian Church in your area or something. Also, I really don't think it's just the Christian religion, such attitudes go across all cultures. It's a matter of human character and not of the religion itself, in my humble opinion. There are many religious people that are not "judgmental and very close minded" - look I don't like fundamentalists either, but at the same time, I don't hold the religion itself to account, I hold the people who distort that religions message to account.

Also, we do have a non-factionalist Religion group and an Atheists and Agnostics group at DU.

Because that is what is driving the Repukes over the cliff, and taking us with them. This war on women is being run by the Christian Right. It's the Repukes that make Christians look bad. If they are upset at us for judging all Christians the same, they better speak out against this war on women. But we already know that won't happen. As a matter of fact, it's getting worse. If Christians want to change hearts and minds, they better speak up for ALL to hear. Because this group is the New Christian American Taliban.

mostly Christians is probably that the country is 80+% Christian, and the extremists have the ear of the media. Look in other countries to see the same from the majority religions there.

That doesn't make what they do right though.

.... the un-Jesus flavor of Christianity is getting all the juice and the real Christians have nothing to say.

The good human character is far easier to find among Wiccans, Druids and any of the Buddhist traditions.
For the most part, Christians are not typically among the Unitarian variety, but rather the Baptist or Catholic variety. Where I live (and most places I have visited south of where I live, they are rather nasty and close minded, they hide it behind smiles but make sure you get the message.)

Perhaps NY and the dozen states I visited are unusual and REAL Christians elsewhere are different, just not in my limited experience among only a fifth of the states.

...especially if you look past the social issues. John F. Kennedy was a Catholic, Jimmy Carter is a Baptist. I understand the antipathy to religion here, but at the same time I don't understand the antipathy to religious tolerance and tolerance of religion, those are liberal principles too. I think it is rather strange to reject both of those things and still claim to be liberal or progressive. It's not the religion primarily, it's the personality that makes the person.

Here WNY, the baptists are of the fundamentalist variety, like fundy adherents in most Religions, they have chosen to spend their time showing a lack of tolerance for others, even other Christians (they like to say that the Catholic Church is a cult and run by Satan) There are little published comic book things they hand out, one explains how evil Catholics are (something about the church being a great whore), another that is a favorite of mine is the one where a kid is driving with his friends and just before they crash and burn his one friend casually asks him if he is saved, another friend made fun of the guy and after they died the friend turned out to be satan. Funny stuff.

I have been told I would burn forever if I did not claim that Jesus was my personal best friend and savior. They tell me it does not matter if I do good or bad, only that I join them as that is the only way to be saved.

Catholics around here are nicer and less insane, but look down on me because I quit the church to study eastern philosophy and along the way became a witch, I have been told by reps from both camps I was evil and will burn someday, for eternity apparently because I won't join them.

I have a question, the fundy adherents here are enthralled with John Calvin and some sort of prosperity spirituality, is this unique to this region or is it a common thing?

I remember him historically as a bloody cruel man that liked to burn people among other things, according to what I have been told, you can tell who is "blessed" and in grace because they will become wealthy (the wealth being the blessings it would seem). The poor are also being punished by God. These guys scare me and hope they are only local locos

...but there also is a racial divide. And I would also hazard from what I know that Western New York is/and has been a hotbed of religious fundamentalism from the 1830's onward. A number of religious traditions originated in Western New York, which is also commonly known as "the burned-over district" from which Mormonism and Millerism sprang forth and other sects found home. So yeah, you live in one of the most fundamentalist Christian areas outside of certain areas of the South. At the same time, Western and Upstate New York were also places where abolitionism and the women's rights movement were strong: John Brown is buried on his homestead in North Elba and Senaca Falls Convention was of course held in Seneca Falls, New York.

John Calvin was controversial even in his own time, and part of the reason he is remembered as cruel, was because so many people even in his Christian polity of Geneva plotted against him. The Christianity of Calvin was contemporary with that of Martin Luther and the Anabaptists.

The the idea that there is an association between prosperity and spirituality is hardly uniquely Calvinist, it is pervasive throughout Protestant tradition, but is strongly associated with the Calvinists. (See: Max Weber - The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism.

In way though, you naturally of course have set yourself up in seeming opposition to their faction, and so they of course don't like you. At the same time, when you give them the pleasure of being afraid of them they are achieving their goal. They are in my opinion, and that of many others, fundamentally divorced from the message of Jesus Christ of Nazareth and should be ashamed of themselves for perverting his words so, do not give them the respect of purporting them to be anything other than somewhat heretical.

Remember this when you think of what the Christian faith truly consists of:

I may not be a Christian, don't believe I can even quantify my journey using any label, but my first favorite teacher was Christ and his message appears quite clear. I took him to be a raging liberal consumed by love that should have been listened to.

A man that I always felt understood positive Christianity better than others I have read was CS Lewis, I still read his non-fiction for insight. The start of my real search began with Joe Campbell however.

I have since come to believe not only "God is neither a Baptist nor a Methodist; He is neither a Presbyterian nor a Episcopalian. God is bigger than all of our denominations." but I would add that God is neither Christian, Nor Buddhist, Nor Wiccan but rather all and none.

I would consider it rude to push my small beliefs on others, I find it rude when others do so to me (not necessarily harmful, but very rude) I will try to suffer them better in the future and even thank them for taking the time.

I feel very similar to you in my beliefs regarding the big questions. I think it's never best to fight fire with fire, but with water!

Aloha.

I never bring it up with any of my clients who ask, nor do I ask them. I deflect.

That said, I spent 25 years in Wheaton IL where the first question anyone asked socially was "what church do you go to?" If you said none, therein ensued any number of possible reactions:
1. Stony silence and turning away.
2. Genuine concern: did we need help finding a faith home?
3. Conversation either positive or negative: why don't we believe (endure an evangelical sermon exhorting us to believe), or straight out being told we're "going to hell".
4. Social shunning for my kids and I as "known" atheists.

In my career, "horses" are the religion and nobody actually practices a "faith". Competitions are on Friday, Saturdays and Sundays - all three days and if you can't compete any of those days for religious reasons, then you are out. So nobody knows professionally what anyone believes, our sport has consumed any of that.

...and I live in an upper-middle class suburb. The women wear designer track suits to the grocery store. You get the picture, I'm sure.

I feel that at least 90 percent of the people here attend church regularly.

Also, you brought up your children. I worry about that as well. I don't want them to suffer and to be
outcasts. That's not fair. My husband and I have lots of discussions with the kids about religion,
morality, philosophy and humanity. I teach them about all world religions. I also teach them that judging
people is wrong and the importance of being a good person. We have discussions about the meaning of
life and about their place in the world--almost every week. However, morality doesn't seem to matter
to people--as much as how often you go to church.

Seems like you understand what I am talking about. I often wonder if we would fit in better in a bigger
city or in a more liberal city--like Seattle.

Last summer I moved from Texas to Massachusetts, and let me tell you, it's like night and day. I'm not even in a city, I'm in a pretty small town about 30 miles from Boston. Not one person has asked me, my husband or my daughter about church or religion since we've been here. It just doesn't come up, and I think it doesn't even occur to anyone to ask about such things.

It's wonderful.

A couple of our friends have a son who spent nearly 10 years in the south in the USAF. In 2010 he married a girl (I cannot even call her a "woman&quot in Texas, and brought her up here when he got transferred.

She wasn't even here two weeks before the complaints started.

She literally hates everything about Massachusetts. Everything.

And has the nerve to call New Englanders "rude" while she sits on her Facebooking ass doing nothing but insulting the entire area and its population.

So thank you for your kind words about my home state.

It fits with my experience. There are loads of great people in Texas, but there are plenty of hypocritical assholes with no manners, too. It's a real shame that the latter seemed to outnumber the former in the area where I lived. I really wasn't sorry to leave.

I, too, am from the midwest--I grew up in a very small town--my sister's called it the buckle of the bible belt. My family left the church in the early 60s-and were outspoken about it. I felt discriminated against in school. In fourth grade a teacher (who belonged to the church we formerly attended) asked everyone in class one-by-one which church they attended-I was going to lie. But she called on every child except me (same thing happened to my brother--a different teacher). I would hope that this kind of attitude is diminishing--however--the first word my son learned how to spell in school was "Jesus". My son said the teacher wrote it on the chalkboard--I immediately called the principal and told him it was inappropriate. To the principal's credit he agreed.

Hilarious!

As for the kids, well, it's not easy for them. When we lived in Wheaton, a lot of the kids actually "grouped" together with their fellow church goers, or with other religious organizations they were members of (Awana, Youth for Christ etc). Yes there were also those who grouped together because they played the same sport or were in band - those are the types of groups I would always encourage my kids to try to be involved in. They were never going to fit in with the religiously oriented cliques of course. Parents play a large role in how kids will sort themselves into friendship groups - either subtly or even overtly. My kid would THINK that a particular girl was their friend at school but then there'd be a birthday party and she wasn't invited - yup, parent had drawn the line.

I actually came to dread meeting new parents in Wheaton as I knew the inevitable question would follow. Since I've always encouraged my kids not to lie, I'd set the example and just say none. When they inquired if I wanted to try "their church", and I'd politely decline, the uncomfortable moment came.... There's no easy way to get around it. I really hear ya there.

We've since moved and my 15 year old is flaunting her non-belief as a badge of individuality. VERY outspoken about it. I have no idea how this is playing out in her school dynamics at this school. In Wheaton that would have been a pretty risky maneuver.....

Its a huge relief that professionally this issue NEVER comes up. And in my new community (still in the midwest but farther west of Chicago), it's never been mentioned here either.

and I must say it leads to the usual interesting conversation around the High Holidays. Passover can be all kinds of fun with my half way fundy brother.

No, it really did not happen the way it is written, really.

Just to confuse people, sometimes I will just say Unitarian.

With a few close friends and family, I'll speak my mind, but with a lot of people it's just easier to keep quiet and have a peaceful day.

though even my parents and brother don't know. There's nothing to be gained.

my immediate family knows but my relatives don't.

Which means ALL of them. That freaks out the Xtians.

Because most of them are polytheistic, Old God..Young God.. Bad God and the pigeon God.

Trinitarians...argue with me on that!!

I wish Barry Lynn would use the quote I gave him on TV.

I tell people what I think, and get trashed for it regularly. No matter how badly I'm trashed, how many people think I'm a troll, or how many think I'm just dumb... I keep telling people what I think and how I feel.

Chip away at the stone.

Good song lyrics and a good philosophy.

Really, though, I never have to hang out with any of the weird ones. Most people I know are sciency/spiritual. If that makes sense.

Religious zealots scare the fuck out of me. I keep my distance.

If one came near my family, I think I would react quite badly, though.

--at many UU churches. Theists and Christians are also welcome. There is an old joke about Unitarinans believing that there is, at most, one God.

are atheist/agnostic. Very open about it too.




What Unitarian Universalists Believe

Unitarian Universalism is a liberal religion born of the Jewish and Christian traditions. We keep our minds open to the religious questions people have struggled with in all times and places.


We believe that personal experience, conscience, and reason should be the final authorities in religion. In the end religious authority lies not in a book, person, or institution, but in ourselves. We put religious insights to the test of our hearts and minds.

We uphold the free search for truth. We will not be bound by a statement of belief. We do not ask anyone to subscribe to a creed. We say ours is a non-creedal religion. Ours is a free faith.
We believe that religious wisdom is ever changing. Human understanding of life and death, the world and its mysteries, is never final. Revelation is continuous. We celebrate unfolding truths known to teachers, prophets, and sages throughout the ages.

We affirm the worth of all women and men. We believe people should be encouraged to think for themselves. We know people differ in their opinions and lifestyles, and we believe these differences generally should be honored.

We seek to act as a moral force in the world, believing that ethical living is the supreme witness of religion. The here and now and the effects our actions will have on future generations deeply concern us. We know that our relationships with one another, with diverse peoples, races, and nations, should be governed by justice, equity, and compassion.

mentioned. It is a beacon of light in a rather nasty and regressive belief structure known as modern Christianity.

With luck, the Unitarians will continue to evolve while the hate filled American regressive Christians slowly die off from hate and lack of interest.

I even went to their Homestead summer camp. It was a great resource for Atheist and Agnostic teens. Ethical Culture is wonderful too. I graduated from their Alternative High School. My entire graduating class went on to four year colleges and most when to top tier schools.
Children and families can benefit from Atheism.

this is a timely post. just ran into this last weekend. why can't i be as free to say i don't believe in gawd, i believe in love, as someone else i just met is to interject jeezus into the conversation? it is offensive. i begin to perceive it as the tyranny of the majority.
i think about it quite a bit. i have strong spiritual beliefs and they are mine. they are just as valid as any, just as invalid as any, but they are mine. i don't try to make them yours, why do you try to make me believe what you do?
i don't mean you coffee cat. i mean evangelical (often, only so-called) christians.

Although I did have an uncle who was a Lutheran pastor/minister/whatever they're called but he lived in Wisconsin and we lived in Illinois so we never saw him much. My dad (the pastor's brother) never went to church. When I was 8 my brother and I went to Sunday school twice before my mom let us quit. But we did get a free bible out of the deal which I still have to this day, lol.

I grew up in a family of non-church-going agnostics. Yes, I remember being asked in school "what religion are you?". In middle school, I answered honestly by disinerestedly shrugging my shoulders. By high school, I was annoyed by the question and I thought it was more fun to lie and say "presbyterian" "methodist" or "episcopalian". The question was absurd to me.

I had a good friend in HS who flat out said she was atheist. I knew I wasn't an atheist, but I didn't understand the word agnostic.

I learned you have to have an answer ready whenever people ask you what religion you are, or what church you go to. Especially when you're growing up in a community of church goers.

There is no problem with being religious. But there is a problem if they want their religion imposing its values on MY country and the laws which govern it. I will NEVER shut up or be put in any "closet" for standing by the Constitution.

I refuse to live in a theocracy, and I refuse to be told that I'm either wrong or somehow lesser than they are for standing by the Constitution as the supreme law of the land. If they believe that God's word is supreme, they're more than free to live THEIR LIVES following it. But I have the right to choose or reject that position as well, and I deserve the right to have a secular government which accommodates ALL of us, which gives each of us equal protection under the law.

Sometimes I look around at things and do what I call a values assessment, making sure that I'm not prejudging things or refusing to see something because it doesn't fit some preconceived blinder I might've had. I have looked at this from every possible viewpoint and I still fail to see how someone could ever call themselves a patriotic, loyal American while simultaneously trying to push one religious doctrine into the public square - into law. We are the real patriots; anyone pushing a religious government IS advocating AGAINST what this country is and has been since its founding. It's they who are the radicals. And it's they who are wrong.

We should NEVER be quiet because we are right.

and I am not proud of being such a cowardly old woman.

but I am a follower of a minority faith. I'm also British and religion is much less of an issue in public life here. While (from memory) about two-thirds of the populace identify as some variety of Christian, it is overwhelmingly seen as a personal and private matter. However, I would suggest from what you say that your discomfort is less with your faith (or lack thereof) and more with the kind of people who publically declare themselves as Christian these days. I would also suggest that such people are not following the teachings of Jesus (I have a lot of time for Jesus's teachings of peace and love, even if I don't consider him divine) but have forged a new religion. A religion which is, like Mormonism, an offshoot of Christianity but academically distinct from it. Whereas in most cases, a faith gets drawn into politics, this new faith exists directly because of politics. It melds fire-and-brimstone Christianity with ferverent nationalism and extreme-right political views. In fact, it's whole reason for existing is to provide a stamp of divine approval on far-right dogma; a faith which exists because of and in symbiosis with an ultraright political agenda. For many years, I worked on one of the internet's biggest religious sites and I saw many "Christians" who were really adherents only because they believed it gave them license to hold views of hatred, intolerence and viciousness.

Any religion (including my own) has it's fair share of assholes. That's just the laws of statistics and human nature. If you find that it's the assholes who are being represented; well, that's the state of the modern media for you. Sensationalism and outrage rule the day. Pat Robertson saying something outrageous sells more copies and gets more viewers than Pastor Bob feeding the hungry.

It's unclear from what you say what you believe in or whether you still believe in anything. However, I would suggest that where you place yourself in terms of faith should be guided by how you feel and your own relationship with your god(s), not by how anyone else chooses to use or misuse their religious beliefs. Faith is a journey, not a destination and if, when you look within yourself, you find that you no longer believe, that's fine. There are any number of wonderful people who are athieists or agnostics. Likewise, if you find that you still hold some belief, that's fine too. You can work to change the perceptions of people who feel just as you do. There are still Christian groups that believe in and try to follow the teachings of Jesus, that try to feed the hungry and look after the planet and so on. Just Google "Christian Left" and you'll find plenty of people who still believe but hold various lefty views. But what I'm saying is, let it be your choice, your thoughts and feelings, your relationship (or not) with the cosmos. Not a reaction to the behaviour of others. Don't let other people define you, they always get it wrong.

I especially agree with this: "...I would suggest from what you say that your discomfort is less with your faith (or lack thereof) and more with the kind of people who publically declare themselves as Christian these days." I think that's really true. Often, the people who care/are nosy enough to ask can make you feel like you've answered incorrectly and immorally if the answer isn't the same faith as theirs, or at the very least isn't Christian.

I think it's interesting/funny that England, which has an official state religion and doesn't make a big deal about it, is so much more laid back about Christianity... from what I've heard and read, it just doesn't enter into public discourse or politics. My impression of a C of E vicar is of somebody warm and cuddly and accepting... as in Eddie Izzard's "cake or death?" Either choice is fine with him.

step down to the religious zealot's level doing the work of the devil. Religion today is nothing less than brainwashing, a political movement, hypocrisy and money. It's all about power and control, and self-anointed tin gods.

I always say what I mean and mean what I say.

I am a self-actualized individual with courage of conviction who has no problem at all living my own life no matter what others think and or say.

But as I get older I see no more reason for me to hide my views on religion than Christian family and friends need to hide theirs. As long as they allow me believe as I choose I keep quiet. If they give me crap, I give it back.

though there is that thought during the pledge of allegiance, and when god is invoked in presidential addresses and so forth. I think of it as a matter of officially bowing to the great oz, and ignoring the curtain for "the greater good" of sometimes-suffering people.

Keeping in mind the most frequent mention of god at funerals and so forth.

I'm likely to get attacked ... Seriously -- no bumper stickers
around here. My car has already been keyed (small town parking lot).

Some joker in a Starbucks gave me a really creepy evil eye for about
45 minutes while I was reading "The Nation" magazine.

Who would Jesus key?

I don't feel any way about it, really.

Not like I have to advertise it, and not that I have to hide it.

I don't mention it unless someone asks. IOW, I don't feel the need to wear my religion or politics on my sleeve...

I don't argue with people over such things, either, like getting into Church vs State debates.

That never solves anything. Debates on such things can go on forever.

Politely telling someone that my beliefs are mine and not up for debate is a pretty good way to get that person off my back. I don't need to justify my opinions, and I won't.

If people want to view me as Evil because I don't go to church, then there's always my trump card...my child molester brother in law who went to church every Sunday and called me a "heathen" while he spent Saturday nights molesting little girls.

That usually brings a quick end to any guff I might get from the Religious Righteous.

But I'm pagan so...... I have felt discriminated by my polyamorous lifestyle choice.

If someone asks, I tell them. If a conversation is about religious beliefs, I tell them. I'm not trying to sell atheism, since it's just non-belief.

...and didn't even know the word.

I don't try to convert the "believers" but I'm always love to mention it whenever beliefs come up in a conversation.
Or when "what are you doing Sunday" comes up. Or even when the words "thank god" are appropriate. I love being an Atheist. I usually call myself a "Happy Atheist". I can see it freaks people out when they first hear it but no one ever tries to convert me. I feel a lot better about not believing in god that they do about believing so it seems to shut them up.

You don't have to explain why. Just enjoy who you are! Pat them on the heads and kill them with kindness. Show them that you are the person they would like to be. One of them might even shake off his shackles someday!

I explain my reasons for not attending as being honest with myself and not being a hypocrite by darkening the door of the church. IOW, on some psychic level my presence would be a buzzkill.

Right wing religion is about being afraid to admit that these religions are just 'flavor of the month' choices. It simply is a way that some people seek to add color their existence, to express the depth of emotions and into a meaningful whole. Our feelings and perceptions are sacred in any form of belief, everyone knows that.

Religion has been being used for centuries to regiment that self-knowledge to make a larger group that has had always had problems with the more powerful forcing themselves on the vulnerable. People seek an equality in thinking in order to protect themselves as part of the pack mentality we find ourselves in. Anyway...

Some of my friends and I were seeking out to recreate the social work aspect of the church and staying close to our own beliefs by joining a Quaker or Unitarian group. They respect me in seeking what I call a generic understanding of what reality and humanity need to do for a better world. So, no problem.

I know most scriptures by heart and at times we discuss the ones commanding unconditional love and service to others. Although at the present time, I am not sure how to implement that in my own life. That is what our churches used to be about, not right wing political dogma.

Because we are older and remember a time when church was not that way, the places we attended growing up supported as natural and Godly, even, the separation of church and state, secular social programs, paying your taxes to Caesar, etc. It was all part of maintaining what we saw as a humane and Christian social order.

Now that the Koch brothers, prosperity evanglists and the Randian preachers who condemn the poor to death in their sermons, we have no interest. The people that follow that are caught up into an emotional whirlwind that in the end will not serve them well. We speak to each other about the profoundly unChristlike churches now.

So, no, I don't feel oppressed, and say I respect whatever it is that gets them through the night, if they still must leave the infinite uncertainty of life to an external infinite. They know I changed and that I believe I am the Creator, of my life and destiny, up to a certain extent, on a planet of billions of people who don't know, or care about me either. My friends never had a conflict with people that were not believers, just thought they were missing something very comforting.

We have to grow up and accept the infinite possibilities of creation, that is, all those billions of people and the uncountable glory that this planet and our experience can be. I point out that in my opinion, the 'God did it' thing is the point at which the human brain simply cannot handle any more data, so they hand it what they can't comprehend to God, the Infinite, the Great Spirit or whatever. They agree with me.

IMHO...

In their hearts, they know that they are conning themselves with all of this. And they need converts not to save the souls of other people from going to hell, but to save themselves. And people that are afraid of facing their delusions are very dangerous.

I call it 'flavor of the month' since IMHO, it's much like people getting excited or territorial or defensive over their region, race, personal plumbing, schools, sports teams, consumer products, all of that.

It's not what reality really is, it's just a choice of how to define it. And that is something each person must decide, and that is actuallly sacred. Joining up with a gang of like minded people is not taking the responsibility of finding out the truth of one's self. Instead, the individual gives up thinking and surrenders to the pack. It's a lot easier to consume religion than grow your own.

And I will get off my lecturn here for a moment...

at myself

I lay awake at night and wonder if there really is a dog.

And proudly one. And I am proud of her for expressing to others how she really feels. I hate nutso Right Wing Christians.

I will say that there are many many more Christians than the in your face dominionist pricks of which you talk about. It's for the decent majority who I remain in the closet. When I encounter the in your face kind, I always find it stimulating and entertaining.

a couple of close friends. Many people would be quite surprised to find that out about me because I'm considered to be an honest, moral, trustworthy, generous person who genuinely cares about people. I certainly don't fit their idea of an evil person, who all atheists are supposed to be.

I live in an area where it's not unusual for strangers to offer you religious tracts to read while you're waiting on the bus (happened to me yesterday) and where one of the first questions many people ask when meeting you is "Where do you go to church?" which is quickly followed by an invitation to attend their church. I'm not out to change anybody's mind. I just don't want to get into discussions on religion, faith or the lack thereof.

Did the SOP change?

I was going to highlight the sentences that applied...then found i was pretty much C& P the whole thing. So, I will simply say yes, me too.....with one little exception. Not only can I not relate or identify with the rabid fundies that would require an intertwining faith and politics, but they make me fearful and uncomfortable.

"I once wanted to become an atheist, but I gave it up- they have no holidays."

A company had a global calendar on its website which included the holidays observed in all the major countries around the world.

There are a whole lot of holidays if you combine them all.

OMG to OYG - Oh Your God!

Being from MA and raised Catholic the true test for me was what was the response of my contemporaries to the priest pedophile coverup; I actually went to school with some of the boys who were molested.

My response was to stop going and giving to a corrupt system.

When my husband and I stopped going to Mass and when we refused to allow our children to attend CCD ( they went to public school) I actually was confronted by a woman whose husband grew up with me( she was from a neighboring community). She directly asked me why she never saw my daughter in the local CCD program or was it because we were going to a different parish?

It NEVER entered her head that our family had rejected Catholicism itself because of the priest pedophile coverup, which, BELIEVE ME, had occurred at our former parish.

After my amazement at her nerve in asking the question I told her directly that we had left the church, that I could not in all good conscience attend the church or participate in a system where such things had happened to my/our classmates - reminding her that her husband grew up in the same environment.

She never spoke to me again; she would turn away - I believe it is called giving one the cut direct - at all school functions.

The same thing goes for my husband's family: they kept going and actually implied not so subtly that WE were at fault for not bringing our children up Catholic.

Now that my children are grown I actually think we gave them a gift of letting them decide for themselves if they want religion in their lives.

It is very freeing to become spiritual rather than 'religious' I have found.

I find myself feeling that there is a big distinction--for me anyway--between being religious and being
spiritual. I feel spiritual. I sense my own spirituality and that there is more to me than just my
body. However, I don't feel religious. I tend to recoil at the concept and the experience of it.

I don't need to be told what to think and what to believe--especially when these concepts are "faith-based"
they are not rooted in science or anything that you can verify. It's faith. I find that being asked to adopt
and accept without question--numerous beliefs, stories and opinions--is counter to my basic make-up.

I love science. I have always been curious. I love to question. I love how Carl Sagan thinks. To be
on this planet and to believe that you KNOW FOR CERTAIN the answers to questions that we can't
possibly know--seems odd to me.

I sense that most religion inhibits true spirituality, self actualization and the fullest expression of
our humanity. That's my experience. It's not true for everyone. I saw a Facebook friend comment
on how when she ran she felt closer to God, and that she listened to her religious music and that it
gave her such a lift. I thought that was cool. I run as well and I listen to Lady Gaga or other funky
tunes--and I get the same high. It lifts me up. People can get to that place in many different ways.

What bothers me is that many religions and religious people are not open to the fact that differing
viewpoints (or no religion at all) is ok and valid. They detest you. That's what I reject about
religion. It seems to tap into the dark side of humanity--in many instances. Closed-mindedness, fear,
harsh judgment, etc.--seem to be the enemies of spirituality.

I'm rambling I'm sure--but maybe others can relate. Or not. heh

and I try to live an ethical life.

But, I do hate hypocrisy and I will speak up when I see or hear it.
This keeps many who would question me at bay.


Tikki

I hardly ever bring up religion, unless it's in reference to something that is said or if someone brings it up first.
But most of the folks who know me know I am not religious and they seem to accept it and I accept whatever they believe in.

religious at all. The problem comes when you have children in school. Parents tend to group their kids away from parents they do not
approve of. I became friendly with one mom because our children loved to play together. She now knows that I am not a church
goer, but in not way does she know the depth of my feeling towards organized religion or my beliefs.

I think because so much time has passed in knowing me she would be interested to hear, but also afraid. The kids play and we
talk more surface.

When I lived in North Carolina, I was surrounded by Christians who happily wore their faith on their sleeve, and would try to convert me any time they found out I was an atheist.

Once the 7th stranger has tried to convert you in the grocery store, you stop talking about religion.

In contrast, when I lived in NY or CA, nobody gave a damn what religion I was.

In Colorado, the religious would happily let me know they were superior to me, but didn't try and convert me.

So you're going to see a wide variety of responses based just on where someone lives.

and had a TERRIBLE experience with the young Christian Talibanists who were utterly nasty about her lack of belief in their Jesus cult (she's a culturally Jewish atheist) and repeatedly told her she was going to Hell unless she converted. They would have the daily prayers-around-the flagpole crap, too.

Colorado has a lot of scary religious elements -- Colorado Springs/Focus on the Family, etc.

blah, blah, blah...

But bible-thumping is accepted as the norm. It's everywhere.

So, no one should blame us for feeling a bit of an outcast. There are laws made against atheists holding public office on the books today. We are a hated and despised group by the majority.

Not only that, I live in the South. Keeping quiet about my atheism is very healthy.

Just sayin'.

I believe that is very close to a direct quote from your own holy book. Why are you complaining about being asked to do what your own holy book requires of you?

We hang with liberals, so it's not a problem at all. A lot of them despise religion as much as we do, and the few "religious" ones we know are groovy liberal Christians, or else they're sort of vaguely religious/spiritual (they say they believe in some sort of a god, but I never know exactly what that means, and they probably don't either) and don't go to church or practice in any way. A few are drawn to Buddhism, which is more of a philosophy than a religion if I understand it correctly. If I get an inkling that someone is hardcore Xtian (or any hardcore orthodox believer in Judaism, Islam, whatever) I wouldn't really develop a friendship/relationship with them anyway. Steer clear of zealots, that's my motto!

However, if I lived elsewhere I'd have to be more careful (see the recent story about the guy who shot a soldier dead because he didn't believe in a god). There are a lot, A LOT, of militant religious loonies in this fucked-up country of ours. I have a relative who lives in the Midwest who tells people that he has "no supernatural beliefs." I like that because it subtly points out that his beliefs are based on evidence and theirs are the illogical, irrational ones.

I will say that with the rise of the Internet more and more of us are expressing ourselves, albeit often anonymously. It makes me happy to think that more religious people must be realizing that there are millions who aren't drinking the Kool-Aid. They don't like that because it fans the flame of doubt that probably 99 percent feel deep down. As Mark Twain said, "Faith is believing what you know ain't so."

eom

I feel utterly intellectually superior to the morons.

I used to be a Christian but got more and more doubts as the years went by. Then for many years I guess you could say I was in the closet, I didn't believe but didn't want to shout it out to anyone.

The last 5 years I stopped caring what anyone thinks and freely talk about what I believe.

I don't know if this is because I am older 55, or just have evolved with my views of life.

But my family says that I am not an atheist because they refuse to believe that I do not believe in Jesus. My daughter is also an atheist, but she does not tell anyone because she is a teacher. And she lives in South Florida and is in constant contact with her father's relatives (he is deceased, but we were divorced for many years) because they are all devout Catholics.

But then, I live in a fairly diverse and tolerant place. Perhaps if I moved to a more socially conservative area, I might feel differently.

It's Southern Hospitality.
They tell us to go to hell.

I already was told by one fellow, "If you keep meditating and worshiping Buddha, you're going to hell".

I corrected him. I said"First of all, you don't know who's going to hell and I don't either. Secondly,Buddha is NOT a god. He is a man. An enlightened man. He is revered but he is NOT worshiped as a god."

Redneck's response: "Ohhhhhhhh......"



People invite me to their church and I decline and tell them I'm a Unitarian. Then they glaze over because they don't know what that is. I am 60 miles away from the nearest UU fellowship, let along an actual church.

Then I got crossways with some pagans that met at a UU Fellowship. They said their drum circle was dying & they couldn't keep it going. I said I would keep it going. I said I was an atheist and wished them "Namaste" in an email. They got enraged at me for saying Namaste to them instead of "You sorry meaningless transient meatsack"????