That's just what Colorado's law enforcement officers and courts need to spend their time doing - investigating every single instance when a pregnancy doesn't work out.

Because, you know, every single time a pregnancy fails it's because of abortion.

...to a womans health ranging from hemorraging, toximia, sterility and even death, that womans doctor would be guilty of 1st degree murder and the woman an accomplice to murder because they chose to terminate it?????

WTF???? Seriously? And yes to any Fundie reading this or Right-Wing lunatic Catholics (who I know quite a few - one in particular) "terminating an ectopic pregnancy" is an abortion, even though many of you seem to make exceptions there when I have had discussions about how they feel life begins at conception and yet seem to make the exception on an ectopic pregnancy. Then they dont call that abortion...they never seem to see their own bullshit hypocrisy at that moment in time....they just come up with something they feel comfortable explaining away. But yes, terminating an ectopic pregnancy is an abortion, and if you make exceptions for that, your whole argument of "life begins at conception" falls apart. An ectopic pregnancy can never become a person. Never. But if you say that aborting a fertilized egg is 1st degree murder, are you going to make Doctors risk being murderers? Are you just going to make women wait till they hemorrage, rupture or die of toximia? And if they dont die and go into emergency surgery, be sterile and never have children? Or will you just make an exception to an ectopic pregnancy being "murder" and call it instead "murder committed in self-defense" and make your hypocritical exception?

To quote another DUer, I hate these people with the power of a million Supernovae....

Women are just vessels. Vessels for sperm. Vessels for fetuses. That is all.

We are not living, breathing entities.

If the right wing completes their goal, even corporations will have more rights than women.

To quote another DUer, I hate these people with the power of a million Supernovae....

I remember straight out of College reading Margaret Atwood's book "A Handmaids Tale"....

I remember thinking it was a powerful work of fiction....that the country and government of Gilead, a theocratic, militaristic, fascist, corporate run government in what was once the United States of America, where women had no rights and were only there to be impregnated for the ruling class could never happen....never.

And here I am, two decades later thinking the american Taliban-GOP is working in that direction very quickly....how long before we lose more rights, wear red gowns and be covered and have our names changed to biblical names or refering to who are "masters" are? If these people in the GOP keep it up, we are there....their vessels with no rights.

Hi CrispyQ....I remember we joined DU years ago around the same time and I would see you post...that was back in the days of BushCo. And I thought we needed to get off that path....so how the f*ck did we end up here in 2012 w/ what is happening?

> I know a young woman today, in her early 30s, who cannot have children & thinks that reproductive issues do not affect her.

> I know another young woman, late 20s, who wants to have children, so thinks that the current reproductive issues are not her concern.

> There is the neighbor boy, who at 17 or 18 still lives at home, but they took in his pregnant girlfriend. I don't know them well enough to know if parenthood was something they chose, or if it just happened, but I suspect, considering their ages, it just happened. What a difference sex education & availability to birth control would have made to this young couple.

> Several years ago, before my elderly mother passed, she told me she no longer cared about women's reproductive issues because they didn't apply to her. ~gasp! It was a horrid rift between the two of us.

I'm sure.

Religion.

Period.

The three women I mentioned in my post are not religious. They just think that because it's an issue that doesn't concern them now that they don't need to pay attention to it. I fight for these issues for ALL women, at ALL points in their lives - not just for me, for now.

on the hospital paperwork.

I was pregnant and very happy, looking forward to motherhood. Through ultrasounds and blood tests, my OBGYN informed me it was not a viable pregnancy. I was either going to miscarry or had an ectopic. There was no heartbeat in the uterus and my hormone levels were unstable. I had a D&C and it was determined that I did not miscarry but had an ectopic pregnancy. They gave me a medication to terminate. The doctor told me the cells would dissolve. When I signed the paperwork it said "abortion". I remember clearly because the nurse pointed it out and told me not to worry about it. As if the medical coding was the thing I was worried about.... However it has stuck in my memory because I always think... if they make "abortion" illegal, how would you terminate an ectopic when it is legally and in fact an abortion?

Each and every miscarriage will also have to be investigated (whether the woman is at fault in causing the miscarriage), because the miscarried zygote or fetus is now technically a person. Like, I don't know, the woman was in a car accident followed by a miscarriage. So I guess whoever was at fault in the car accident would then technically be up on manslaughter charges. Or maybe the woman didn't take her prenatal vitamins like she should, or "allowed" herself to become too stressed out at work...

Anyway, you see where this is going...and it's fucking lunacy!

This is going to cut into their coffee breaks.

for the murder of their sperm.

Should the accused be found guilty, the plaintiffs will be issued a large pile of fist-sized rocks.....

they mean well. Can't we just let those who are more Christian make those decisions for us? Who are we to question such wise laws?

they deserve to live in a totalitarian theocracy. These nazis need to go!

I literally hate the rabid fascist and all the harm they have already caused and are still trying to cause every single day. Even Obama kowtows to the richest, proposing a 28% corporate tax rate - unbelievable! I feel totally helpless since the economy has robbed my family of so much income, I can't afford to give money to progressives the way I did for the last good dozen years. It's really mentally challenging to go from very comfortable to afriad to spend any money becasue I can't rely on having enough income to pay the bills.
MFers.

This has to do with CONTROL.

In a modern society, brute strength is not the most important success factor for a male or anyone else. The male edge has been the superior strength of sexual dimorphism. Also the limitations of gestation and child care on women. Which is not such a big factor as it was, either.

This seems to be causing a panic among the boys.

I'm not trying to attack religion itself.... in fact I respect religion, but when it oppresses or harms people, I will call it what I think it is... fanaticism. Fanatics exist in every group out there... it's not religion but those who are allowed to use it for their sick deeds.

down the throats of women and the rest of us.

BTW - abortion is legal under Federal law. Federal law trumps state law. How can these types of bills that make abortion a crime be legal?

we must use all we have to battle and stop this attack on women's civil rights.

except for the bank fraud they took away from the states when they did the Mortgage Fraud settlement.
I am seeing very selective enforcement.

At legal pot shops.

Banksters, oil big wigs, corrupt politicians, not so much.

The rage is building.

And it is very much because of this selective enforcement of the law....based on your wealth.

Shits gonna hit the fan soon.

As a violation of Roe v Wade. Which specifically says that the embryo is not a person (in sec. IX?)?

Though if there is enough popular support? Enough states could override Feds? And/or publicize the issue.

...of these laws in so many different places, that we will be years repealing and overturning them all.

That, I think is their real strategy. Get a couple of hundred of these laws on the books and then insist that each be fought individually.

We're drowning in local, state anti-abortion laws. Passed by republican state legislatures

Unfortunately, the c. 2006 elections or so, elected massive Republican majorities, in the US congress ... and also in state governments. And they're now passing hundreds of anti-abortion laws.

It was the new, 66%+ Republican supermajority in Texas, that passed the transvaginal sonogram - forced rape - law. With a republican supermajority, there was no hope of stopping it.

And worse? That law somehow passed one federal appeal, in the local Louisiana appeals court.

So far in fact, federal appeals are not working. So you are right to raise the alarm; could go either way. And right now? The most successful attack on Pro-Life laws in history, is now underway. "Thanks" to republican supermajorities througout the US state legislatures especially.

This is the most serious and successful attack on abortion, since Roe v. Wade.

upon repeal of Roe v. Wade. They know that they can't enforce them now, but they anticipate a Republican appointed Supreme Court will one day overturn Roe v. Wade and then all of the state laws will already be in place.

Repukes and the Taliban...birds of a feather.

Welcome to Christianist Sharia Law

"first degree homicide"? They are beyond despicable. Now it's open season on women and the medical staff who treat them.

Maybe WOMEN should leave Colorado and let the men rule it by themselves.

I grew up in Colorado, left there a long time ago, always had a soft spot in my heart for my home state, still know some very nice Coloradans, mostly female, but now awfully glad I'm not one of them! There were a lot of male chauvinists in my life there, but never thought it would come to this.

these folks never give up, do they?

I'll be making calls on Monday.

to tell the Teabaggers, "Hey we fucked up! We elected you!"

Let's hope America uses that opportunity. In the mean time....

...women, not so much."

That's the whole "pro-life" attitude in a nutshell.

to pull back on women's rights. What they are thinking to pass such an egregious bill?! Insanity.

Do these people even understand how the morning after pill works?

Yesterday my husband told me that he drove by a Planned Parenthood (we live in CO) and there was about 6 pro-life protester and only one pro-choice counter protester. It just upsetting that most of us can be busy ignoring the loonies and then they get this crap pushed through to the front line.

Explanation here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysistrata

This is a war just as heinous as any war fought with weapons, so if the Greek women can withhold sex until peace is negotiated, so can we! I'm almost semi-serious: we can live without men for awhile (there are toys ) but these repressed Christofascist nut jobs who think that sex with women is their God-given right...well, I'd like to see how they would react to not gettin' it!

After all, these bastards don't want women to have contraception, so I guess total abstinence is our only way, right??

The only problem I see with an otherwise excellent idea is I fear your Lysistrata will fail unless you can get the fundy women to join you.

It is their husbands that are causing this and the husbands that support the equality of their mates are not the problem and will likely be the only ones that are affected. If they are true mates they will understand and support their wives but the cultists will likely go on as if nothing different were happening.

Or perhaps I am underestimating the power held by the mistresses of the holy rollers, they may very well be on board with the idea.

All I've found is the summary, which is distressingly vague.

Here's an article: http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_20192390/bill-personhood-status-fetuses-killed-or-hurt-by

Thank you for the link to the article, though!

To go to Social Security to get a SS number for her fertilized egg.
To get the SS number they need to declare a name and sex and date of conception
for the records.

Also, get the little cluster on an insurance policy.
And if she should lose the pregnancy...anyone
in anyway involved can be held liable.

Get ready Law Students for a whole new case load.

Tikki

Considering that anywhere from 60-80% of all pregnancies spontaneously abort, often without the knowledge of the woman, why not take advantage of this?

Dear Mr. Insurance Company:
I had sex with my husband on March 17, 2012, then I had an unusually heavy flow, with cramps, at the end of the month. I KNOW I was preggers, because I could sense that god had gifted me with a wonderful little daughter. It was more than a Mother's intuition.
Therefore, I demand payment of our policy limits of $1,000,000 of our term life policy which covers all members of my family.

Proof of our legal, unprotected sex act is available upon demand, on DVD, VHS and Beta. Please enclose a check for 29.99 for shipping and handling fees.

With tears and trepidation,

A regretful almost mommy.

I never know where this State is going on an issue...

I'll be going to Denver for the first time on the 28th of April, though. Time to march.

Just avoid the nuts about 60 miles south of Denver.

And definetely visit the People's Republic of Boulder.

Get in some skiing (some resorts do open until May)

If you must go south, go to Manitou Springs, which is a liberal area in a sea of red. Visit the Pikes Peak via the cog railroad.

Or hike (5 hour hike) or drive up the hill. It's your choice!

Pueblo and Trinidad are safe areas for liberals too.

I'm roughly midway between Denver, Phoenix, Albuquerque, and Salt Lake City. Also known as the middle of nowhere.


Yesterday's weekly Friday noon protest.

Looks like a nice little town I visited the other day - a town called Williamsburg, Iowa..

It's a neat little town - the one with the big outlets on the other side of town.

There's no big outlets... anywhere...

If my memory serves me correctly, this is one of Warren Jeffs flocks that live in that area.

I just moved out here. It's a big and mostly empty county. I know Utah's pretty weird, though...

eta: Just looked it up - they're in Mancos, a cool little town 10 miles east of Cortez...

make sure that they didn't kill a person?

I am having a difficult time finding non-cuss words to express how I feel about this.

we live in. Thanks to the Rethugs and their shills on the Supreme Court we now live in a time where fetuses and corporations share a characteristic - they are both "persons".

Thanks for sharing. I needed a few laughs among all this bullshit.

Not that there is a fundamental difference between them.

superstitions carry more clout than my reliance on fact and science?

This just gets worse every day.

This is evil and stupid.

Do they think that this will win them votes? Have they simply lost their minds?

as soon as a woman gets a positive pregnancy test, she can take out life insurance on the "person" in her uterus and if she has a miscarriage, she can collect the life insurance on that person?

Their legislation is becoming more and more Taliban-like on women's (health) issues.

Do they understand why MENOPAUSAL women don't conceive? NO OVULATION. They do not understand the difference between the Morning After Pill and RU-486. Are they planning on prosecuting women already on BC Pills who forget to take one or two, and then double up on them? I suppose they think they too will run out and get the Morning After Pill? Wait. If they get this inch, they will take the next mile and outlaw all contraceptives on the basis they kill babies or PREVENT them from being born. Again, CATHOLIC teaching. All sex must be "open" to procreation.

How did these people ever make it to Congress without passing HS BIOLOGY?

What do we have running this country? A bunch of senseless, sexist, racist, homophobic, hypocritical porno freaks? I think so. If they'd keep it in their pants, there'd be no reason for any of this foolishness. The men who cause the pregnancies should be charged as well. Period. We have to get these creeps OUT of office and rescind their screwed up policies.

if it barely passes, Hick will veto it. It's DOA anyway.

ALEC or Americans United for Life must be working hard behind the scenes here. Republicans are usually good at taking each other's cues but this is looks like a well coordinated assault on rights.

That way no one will want an abortion, unless it is life threatening. There...problem solved.

Who is funding these oppressive and backward laws??

--Just like proposition 8-- every one of these laws has to be revoked and stricken off the books!!!

From their website:


On July 13, 2011, the Center for Media and Democracy unveiled this trove of over 800 "model" bills and resolutions secretly voted on by corporations and politicians through the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC). These bills reveal the corporate collaboration reshaping our democracy, state by state.
ALEC bills, which largely benefit the organization’s corporate members, have been introduced in legislatures in every state—but without disclosing to the public that corporations previously drafted or voted on them through ALEC.
Before our publication of this trove of bills, it has been difficult to trace the numerous controversial and extreme provisions popping up in legislatures across the country directly to ALEC and its corporate underwriters.

How un American to have to work in secret to fight against the rights of citizens--no??? I am so angry at these people, and so disgusted.

A guy from the company I work for is the ALEC State Chairman.

at least we know who they are.

theyor they know we will unite against the banksters and 1%, IMHO.

And tell the Republicans to shove it.

Man, I hope the state Dems can recapture the house completely and remove stupid teabaggers from obsessing on women's rights and focus on the REAL issues facing Colorado today.

That's JOBS people.

That's all I've got. I can't respond to this shit anymore.

they need to be crushed.

Seems to be the way this is going, or the way 'they' want it to go.

I want to kick some ass.

passing laws that involve women's genitals?

RFLMAO

where does it end?

does it end?

The facts are far too confusing and unclear - kinda like life,,, Their beleifs, in contrast, are sparkling clear and simple as can be, because they dont have to take reality into account.

Just keep chanting : A fact is a lie, and beleif is the truth! ,
A fact is a lie, and beleif is the truth!
A fact is a lie, and beleif is the truth!
A fact is a lie, and beleif is the truth!

The worst thing about this crap, IMHO, is that it is being pushed by people (like Dobson and his crew from the Springs) who are morally bankrupt , sociopathic, and fucked up like a can of worms

I've learned from experience not to get heated over claims like this until I see the actual law.
It is often different from what is explained in a few short sentences.

Here you go.....read it and weep....


http://www.leg.state.co.us/CLICS/CLICS2012A/csl.nsf/fsbillcont3/B2C357AC24743FFA87257981007F18F3?Open&file=1130_eng.pdf

Here's the original version - much longer and what the summary is talking about:

http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/clics2012a/csl.nsf/fsbillcont3/B2C357AC24743FFA87257981007F18F3?open&file=1130_01.pdf

The summary in Pachamama's bill refers to this, but not the actual bill that was passed. They vacated this bill, the one that was doing the definition of new felonies, and replaced it with the one sentence that says the death or injury of an "unborn member of Homo Sapiens" during the commmision of any other crime in the bill would allow prosecution of homicide or injury for the unborn member concurrent with the underlying charges.

So if someone attempts to murder a pregnant woman, but only kills the fetus, then the criminal can face attempted murder charges for the attack on the woman and murder charges in the death of the fetus. That's in the bill that was passed. Even if the mother didn't know she was pregnant, as in she just became pregnant the day before the attack, and the attack results in the termination of the pregnancy (something that might come up in the investigation), the attacker can be brought up on murder charges for the expiration of the blastocyte.

The original bill seemed much worse, but this is bad enough regarding the legal recognition of the fetus from the moment of conception. It's not getting full personhood recognition yet, but it's getting there.

Yes, the original bill was much worse (as they always seem to be) but I believe putting it into context shows very clearly what the ultimate goal of these lbills are and of course to ultimately get in to law definitions such as "unborn members of Homo Sapiens" so that they are firmly codified into law and can thus eventually help criminalize any abortions and end the right of an abortion for women.

But I really am feeling that unless more and more women and men start speaking up for a woman's right to privacy and protections to her reproductive choices, we are going back to the days of back alley abortions and womens rights gone....as I mentioned in an earlier posting above "A Handmaids Tale" come true....

Finally, its no accident in my opinion that Birth Control has become front and center lately as an issue....Griswold v Connecticut was the case that Roe v Wade was based on with the 14th amendment and right of privacy argument. Since Griswold v Connecticut was based around birth control rights, the Pro-Zygote/Embryo Movement has decided that if you decimate Griswold v Connecticut and make Birth Control not a "right", then maybe they can undermine and weaken Roe v Wade. Its not coincidence that when modern birthcontrol in the form of the IUD and hormone therapy was available that women were able to start having more control over their lives and start getting more college degrees, Doctoral and Law degrees and moving into the legislatures and boardrooms. In the minds of these misogynistic chauvinist freaks who call us "sluts", this must be stopped.

I just am stunned beyond belief by this full assault against women going on....women and the men who respect and love them must stand up against this and fight hard....

the second version is the camel's nose in the tent.

What's next - miscarriages classed as a crime?

We must stop this war on women.

They will force all "sluts" because that is what we are in their minds - anyone that has sex must be a slut - to give birth - to children that could die immediately upon birth, or in a few days - and those children that survive will be treated as if they are the "unclean" there will be no monies forthcoming for healthcare, food, shelter or education from these so called "pro-lifers".

Probably conservative elements of the Catholic Church; Fr. Frank Pavone; EWTN, EWRN. And hundreds of Pro Life organizations.

It may be that some of these Pro Life, anti-abortion bills, will not pass. Or we might hope that, regarding those that pass, Roe v. Wade will hold against all this massive assault. So that many of these laws will be struck down on appeal to the Supreme Court. But we can't count on that; we need to stay alert here.

So far in fact, the State of Texas has already managed to actually, fully pass a law, requiring that all women considerating an abortion in the first two months, must have a "transvaginal" sonogram wand inserted into them. So that the embryo can be viewed. While the doctor is required to tell you about the embryo's heartbeat" and so forth.

A process that Doonsbury not long ago called coerced "rape." And which may in fact meet that description, legally.

The Texas Sonogram Law - or call it say, Republican Rape - looks like a very, very strong issue for the Nov. election.

Let's hope the even more severe laws are not passed.

Though? Rick Santorum recently suggested that he himself considered abortion to be murder, in effect. And we would expect to hear lots more about that, if Santorum is elected.

60 so far...

http://www.alternet.org/reproductivejustice/154586/how_the_%22pro-life%22_movement_puts_women_behind_bars

I can't even read the link. The title is too depressing. My only hope is the backlash that may occur. Just sad. Really sad. Can't even get angry, too sad.

Jess askin'....

Put on those Burkas. Seriously WHAT THE FREAK IS NEXT?! ARE THEY GOING TO TAKE AWAY OUR RIGHT TO VOTE?!

make it illeagel to men have viagra or their tubes cut.

It seems the only way this could be enforced would be to send in used tampons and pads for testing.

These laws are stupid and all the lawmakers involved should be fired!

a citizen initiated petition to get a referendum question on the ballot to negate the law. Citizens should initiate petitions in every state that would implement a change to their state's constitution requiring that no laws regarding and changes regarding women's health issue cannot be passed without a statewide vote by voters. That would at least give the citizens a chance to stop the madness (anywhere that isn't an insane red state.

What is happening to this country?!?! We elect a black president, and the right wing literally goes completely off the deep end. It it possible that deep down inside, even on an unconscious level, they're trying to punish the country. This is NOT just an issue for women. It impacts men too.