and\or mixed up details. most of what he said was true, but he's getting crucified right now...

Well, if you're going to do an expose you'd better not embellish your material or make shit up. If you do, you blow a yawning hole in your credibility and that of everybody who promotes your work. Even if most of what he said was true, the fact that some of it wasn't means he deserves to get his butt kicked.

It didn't hurt Andrew Breitbart at all. It doesn't hurt Fox News at all.

And I'd argue it has. Outside their circle of inbred knuckledraggers, nobody takes Fox, Breitbart, or especially O'Keefe seriously.

so I disagree with your conclusion.

inbred knuckledraggers. I doubt there are many professional journalists or people who can walk upright who think Faux is a serious news outlet.

We better quit "taking the high ground" and get in the mud if we're going to defeat them. A person who takes the "high ground" doesn't really give a damn about our side winning, frankly.

fighting effectively doesn't necessarily mean getting in the mud as you put it. And just who are YOU to loftily decide who cares and doesn't care about a liberal agenda? Fuck that dogshit to hell, honey.

So that is a rather gross distortion of the situation. It is unfortunate that daisy made some of his content up, but he is not a journalist, not a documentarian, and the onus on fact checking was on Glass and TIA not Daisy.

TAL gave him multiple opportunities to back out.

He lied and said it was all true.

If he had said, on one of the numerous opportunities presented to him, "This is a docudrama" or such, he would have been in a different place right now. Even he knows this, as can be clearly discerned from the interview with Ira Glass.

Didn't speak to a 13 year-old worker
Didn't speak to any workers harmed by n-hexane
Didn't speak to 50 or 25 or 12 workers in an unauthorized union
Didn't speak to a man whose hand was injured making Apple products
Didn't visit dorms with cameras in the rooms (maybe didn't visit any dorms)
Didn't see any guards with firearms

He lied for effect ... that is the whole story. Any truths are lost or never existed.

Marketplace's (was it Ky Risdal?) said it wasn't difficult to contact the Chinese translator. Glass has worked with the Marketplace crew on many TAL episodes. He couldn't have called them up??? That doesn't pass the smell test.

He's lucky Ira isn't literally flogging him.

Last edited Sat Mar 17, 2012, 11:39 PM - Edit history (1)

He put a performance artist on as a journalist, and didn't fact check the artist's story. Do a retraction, take personal responsibility. Leave it at that. I don't need to hear an O'Reilly'esque smack down on NPR. Undignified.

TAL piece. I do plan to listen to it later today.

If Ira didn't take some responsibility in the end, I am disappointed.

And while Daisey is a performance artist, he presented his material as fact. The fact checking, done way after the piece aired, should have been done earlier, I agree.

And I thought the interview was as respectful as something like that could be. My comments are downthread.

I think Ira Glass took personal responsibility. He did as much fact checking as he could do and Daisey's lies kept him from getting to the truth. He clearly regrets having run the story at all and appears to have come away with a valuable lesson. Finally, I think he was incredibly restrained under the circumstances.

I never felt uncomfortable for a moment. Daisey is a liar and a fraud and deserves every bit of scorn being heaped upon him right now. Ira Glass is an American treasure and he should do whatever he needs to do to preserve his reputation and that of his show.

Things that are untrue, LIES. I think a thorough debunking of the story was necessary, and is what a real journalistic enterprise such as NPR should be doing.

That's a major distinction there.

He did visit the factory but the translator disputes some things (that happened 2 years ago). We can't know for sure whether everything he said is true but Daisey stands by a large chunk of it.

Is it plausible that this person could have been entirely unaware of the stir that Daisey's show was making all over the web, worldwide media, etc.?

I don't know enough about how effective Chinese censorship is or isn't to know if this part of things passes the smell test or not.

On the face of it, I want to say, how is it at all possible that this person who speaks both Chinese and English, who is plugged in enough that she was easily tracked down by Rob Schmitz from Marketplace, who lives in or near Shenzen, where one would think the fallout would cause some stir - how is it possible that she could be unaware of the size of the story she was intimately a part of and not check to see what Daisey was actually "reporting"?

But is that possible? Is news and access to news and information so restricted in China that she could have remained unaware of the widespread circulation/popularity of Daisey's story? How restricted, specifically, is news and information in Shenzen?

This is something I would like to understand better.

(Oh, and edited to add that my question relates to the idea that if she did become aware of what he was reporting, why would she wait until now to correct it, or not show any active desire to correct details of events she was said to have participated in, if she knew these things didn't happen?)

She was unaware of either his stage performance or his TAL appearance. She knew very little about him. She knew he was a writer.

He says he lied about her name and his inability to contact her because he thought she would object to being a part of his *monologue*. She says she would not have objected. He later says he lied about this because he knew she could unravel his lies.

She appears genuinely surprised when the MarketPlace reporter tells her the things Daisey is saying about his trip. I believe that she had no idea what he was saying.

journalism should do. Call it out and point out that it was a fraud!!!

Daisey was asked point blank on more than one occasion if what he was presented was completely true, and he lied and said it was.

He's despicable and a coward.

But this is what happens to liars. They almost always get caught up in their own lies.

ira Glass and his staff share the blame here.

"Daisey lied to me and to This American Life producer Brian Reed during the fact checking we did on the story, before it was broadcast. That doesn't excuse the fact that we never should've put this on the air. In the end, this was our mistake."
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/blog/2012/03/retracting-mr-daisey-and-the-apple-factory

He clearly does and expresses true regret for having aired the program.

It's not a mistake he is likely to make again.

His complaint that Daisey lied to him repeatedly is irrelevant. You don't fact check by asking the author. You fact check by independently verifying facts asserted by the author. Glass did not do that. Market Place demonstrated just how easy it was to fact check Daisey. And as Glass stated, the blame is his. Daisey is not a journalist and demanding that he be held to journalistic standards is ridiculous.

He's been lying to his audiences.

he essentially says "no".

Because it would hurt his "best work".

Con.

I have. There are many sections of the piece that are clearly fantastical. I think perhaps you have no idea what you are taking about.

Too bad sixteenth century English journalist didn't get Shakespeare's written confession to being a liar. That would have been beneficial to the world as we know it.

Last edited Sat Mar 17, 2012, 11:39 PM - Edit history (1)

The part of the show with Marketplace's journalist was fine. That took up the first third of the show. Then there was the public shaming of Daisey by Glass which went on for far too long. It was unnecessary, undignified, and reminiscent of Faux News interrogations.

I don't blame him for being upset. It wasn't acceptable to have so much dead air while Ira was trying to extract an "I'm a liar" from Daisey. Ira looked like a bully there.

It came across as Ira wanting Daisey to take all the responsibility without Ira taking any. It's Ira's show.

to find the Chinese translator. It doesn't sound like it would have taken much to have done a proper vetting of Daisey's material.

Glass needs to take the majority of the responsibility, and quit trying to get someone to say they're a liar on the air.

especially when when the FF came in the next week and tried to rationalize his lies. Ira looks like the paragon of restraint.

They basically focused on very immaterial facts that Daisey spoke of. Yes, Daisey misrepresented and even lied, but his narrative had truths to it. I didn't like that they required him to say "this is fictional" because 80-85% of his monologue reflects truths. At the end Charles Duhigg uses the "supply chain" argument, which, in my opinion, is an Apple propaganda argument, and I think it's total bullshit. Duhigg otherwise is OK, I simply do not like that they used this argument because it reverses all the good work these journalists do (Duhigg's iEconomy piece is very strong).

I'd love to see Daisey redeem himself by doing research on the true supply chain and how electronics use components from the Congo. Conflict minerals. If Daisey does it he needs to document every single thing because in theater, in monologue, you don't have a standard of proof that people come to expect in journalism. It's too easy to get caught.

Unless, of course, Daisey just wanted to "push an emotional narrative" and doesn't care one way or another. He does still use Apple products, presumably, so maybe, in the end, that's all it was.

I'm glad it still opened peoples eyes, though apathy will return in due course.

... because it was "This American Life" and it coincided with what I had been conditioned to believe.

Daisey screwed over Glass and you and me .... he gave Apple every bit of cover they would want. He made stuff up out of whole cloth.

The last 12-15 minutes with the N Y Times was illuminating, but the damage has been done and This American Life does not have the legs of a N Y Times (re: Jason Blair), they have been hurt badly. Ira did a good job in damage control.

Daisey misled everyone when he sold his story as fact. I didn't take it as humiliating and it's the only way he's ever going to get out of this, by owning it and talking about it and being a humble as Glass was about their own mistake in not fact checking. There's nothing wrong with being angry about this. And I'm by no means vilifying Daisey. He made a huge mistake and let his desire to tell a story get away from him. This has happened to other--James Frey, Rick Bragg, Patricia Smith--and they've dealt with it in various ways that have had varying results. Frey never did seem to get it but the others have gone on to restore trust and have good careers.

As to shark jumping I thought it was incredible radio. I almost held my breath. I have great admiration for Daisey for being willing to talk and to think about the whole endeavor.

Frey's fake memoire made Oprah look bad, but Frey's lies were entirely self-promoting. I guess that's why I cringe less when Oprah shamed him. And it's Oprah. I expect more emotion from someone who regularly interviewed leading celebrities.

With Glass, I expected more of a "On the Media" approach. A simple apology that he dropped the ball, and less "just say you're a liar" interrogation. Doesn't help that Daisey's piece made one of largest corporations look bad; whereas, Frey's piece didn't cut into anyone's profit margins that I know of.

that doesn't fit your personal meme. Some of us heard the story with a different outlook.

We want TAL to thrive and Ira had to do this or suffer the Rather/CBS stigma.

for Ira's head?

I find that laughable. The country isn't whipped up in a pro-cheap-Chinese-labor-sentiment similar to the pro-war sentiment the country was in when Rather was fired. I'm not buying your personal meme.

of course they are raking him over the coals.

uncover reprehensible labor conditions. Send a real investigative journalist.

I'm beginning to think so. This American Life aired a piece by Apple stating that they could find no evidence of child labor. Now, if I were airing a scathing piece of one of the most profitable corporations in history, I would make sure all my ducks were in a row.

But there are some who would let a "performance artist" spout lies regarding one the largest, most powerful corporations on Earth on their radio program. To each his own. It's a good tale of how to NOT throw caution to the wind, eh?

Even if he thought it was for a good cause, he lied and misrepresented.

I had listened to that episode of American Life and, in turn, passed on his lies to people that took me at my word since I good Daosey at HIS word because Ira took him at HIS word.

Ira is taking responsibility and forcing Daisey to do so as well. Bravo.

I wish everyone was as responsible as he is.

NPR journalists said it took one Google search, and one phone call to find the Chinese translator that Daisey used.

What lies from Daisey did you pass on? The number of people that he talked to? Apple countered the underage workers in the original broadcast, if I recall correctly.

This week's episode was a low-point of This American Life.

It was a very, very "This American Life" moment.

FYI


APPLE, CHINA, AND THE TRUTH

...

But Daisey lied. He made up things about his trip, and the show’s attempts at fact-checking failed to uncover them. It all fell apart when Rob Schmitz, a seasoned reporter who is the China correspondent for the public-radio program “Marketplace,” got suspicious and tracked down the translator who’d worked with Daisey. It’s worth a listen, but, in short, Schmitz discovers that Daisey made up scenes, never took notes, conflated workers, never visited a dorm room, and so on. Watching it unravel from Beijing makes me wonder: What does the debacle say about how we all look at China? Why were so many people so eager to believe it?

more...
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/evanosnos/2012/03/mike-daiseys-mistakes-in-china.html

Thanks for the link. The following was telling in that just doing a rudimentary fact check would have indicated the fabrications in Daisey's story. It shouldn't have been aired.

sorry, not gonna blame the victim on this one.

The TAL show where Glass initially aired Daisey's monologue, Glass said that there were problems with Daisey's claim of Apple using underage workers. That should have been enough to not air the show.

I'm one of the worst person for catching foreshadowing, but even I could see that this was going to play out as Daisey being discredited, and true journalist shying away from covering the harsh labor conditions at Foxxconn.

I feel played more by TAL than by Daisey.

I've never heard of Daisey prior to Glass giving him a national microphone on TAL. I'm sure he would have been ruined without the Faux News-like haranguing from Glass that Daisey confess to being a complete and total liar. Glass has always struck me as pretty savvy in catching lies, or exaggerations. Why did Glass choose to drop his journalistic standards and air Daisey? And then why the over-the-top public shaming?

Friday, March 16, 2012

"This American Life" has raised questions about the adaptation of AGONY/ECSTASY we created for their program. Here is my response:

I stand by my work. My show is a theatrical piece whose goal is to create a human connection between our gorgeous devices and the brutal circumstances from which they emerge. It uses a combination of fact, memoir, and dramatic license to tell its story, and I believe it does so with integrity. Certainly, the comprehensive investigations undertaken by The New York Times and a number of labor rights groups to document conditions in electronics manufacturing would seem to bear this out.

What I do is not journalism. The tools of the theater are not the same as the tools of journalism. For this reason, I regret that I allowed THIS AMERICAN LIFE to air an excerpt from my monologue. THIS AMERICAN LIFE is essentially a journalistic ­- not a theatrical ­- enterprise, and as such it operates under a different set of rules and expectations. But this is my only regret. I am proud that my work seems to have sparked a growing storm of attention and concern over the often appalling conditions under which many of the high-tech products we love so much are assembled in China."

http://mikedaisey.blogspot.com/

Two big egos playing and bickering while others are toiling in misery.

One of them should listen to NPR's news. Apple is was deemed "the world's most profitable company" in Feb, 2012. If ever I were going to dot all my i's and cross all my t's, it would be when I would say scathing things about a powerful and profitable corporation.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=147633651

Apple was in no way let off the hook.

I did appreciate the last quarter of the show though I didn't find it redeeming. My thoughts are that many others didn't make it past Glass's attempt to extrapolate a liar's confession from Daisey. My partner left the room rather than listen any longer.

Seems the news part of the show was buried.

Seems to me as though the information and the entertainment of This American Life remain consistent, unchanged by this little imbroglio-- therefore, I do not see it, in and of itself, jumping a shark.

What you may see as an over-reaction by Ira Glass may be seen by others, with just as much validity, as a measured response.