For three hours Yanukovich cajoled and bullied anyone who pushed for Ukraine to have closer ties to Russia. A handful of deputies from his Party of Regions complained that their businesses in Ukraine's Russian-speaking east would suffer if Yanukovich didn't agree to closer ties with Russia. That set him off.

"Forget about it ... forever!" he shouted at them, according to people who attended the meeting. Instead the president argued for an agreement to deepen trade and other cooperation with the European Union.

Some deputies implored him to change his mind, people who attended the meeting told Reuters. Businessmen warned that a deal with the EU would provoke Russia - Ukraine's former master in Soviet times - into toughening an economic blockade on Ukrainian goods. Yanukovich stood firm.

"We will pursue integration with Europe," he barked back, according to three people who attended the meeting. He seemed dead set on looking west.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/12/19/uk-ukraine-russia-deal-idUKBRE9BI0E320131219

And on reddit a sticky to live streams/etc:
http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1vwshh/ukraine_revolt_livestream_sticky_post/

Lots of poverty and limited access to food.

A common complaint is that what's the use of free universal heath care if there is no food.

because the EU's main interest in the the Ukraine is their fertile farmland which seems at present to be underutilised.

Or lack of $$ is the issue...dated a woman from there for awhile

their citizens.

in order to get a big loan from Russia as a reward.

3 guesses... first two don't count.

Pass on the first two guesses.

So I'm not sure the protesters would be all that happy in the end. Ask Greece, Spain and Portugal.

This is yet another case of the big power blocs using righteous indignation for their own strategic ends. Yet another case of protest being highjacked (cfr Egypt).

And the US is heavily involved - as attested by under-secretary of state Victoria Nuland handing out cookies and tea to the protesters, and thousands of people forming a chain around the US embassy to protest the perceived meddling.

Not saying Russia is such a lovely player, by the way.

Ethnically (religion, language, etc) the west was on occasion part of Lithuania, Poland or Austria-Hungary and is more central European. Parts of western Ukraine include Galicia, Ruthenia, and Bukovina. They are mostly native Ukraine speakers, since the Poles were deported and the Jews were killed. The eastern Don basin and Crimea include more native Russian speakers and some provinces there were historically Russian before Stalin redrew the map. For example, Crimea was historically part of Russia.

Unfortunately, they do not seem to be able to adopt the Czech and Slovak solution of peacefully splitting into two countries.

All they need is a nice trilateral agreement between Russia-EU-Ukraine. Simple. Solved instantly.

But everyone wants to eat their cake and have it too. And Russia can't risk giving too much influence to EU because Ukraine is a sort of new Iron Curtain they're trying to build.

.... Putin has no interest in any agreement that brings the EU to his borders. He's trying to rebuild the old Soviet block under a Russian lead "Customs Union." And he's willing to use extortion to do it. Heck I would be surprised to see Russian military intervention to "protect Russian interests."

that's how I understood it too. Of course, that's "only" the historical background. This thread needs a list of parties involved in the kerfuffle today, and a little recent history on the political evolution of the last couple years.

Ukraine does have some coal, but that is in the Don basin in the industrialized east. In fact, that is why the east is industrialized.

NATO politics does not allow for neutral countries. You are either with us or against us.

There are all sorts of official and unofficial organs supported by outside interests at work in Ukraine.

The miracle is that it is less violent than Syria, another country in the grip of meddling outsiders.

We would probably agree that the choice should be up to the Ukrainian people.

no one now knows exactly where they lived there. But, they were farmers and they spoke Ukrainian and Polish and cooked a lot of Polish food. From what you are saying - it sounds like they must have come from the western part.

Documents the millions killed in the Ukraine by Stalin and the Soviet Union prior to the start of WW2. That will explain why the people of the Ukraine want nothing to do with aid from Russia.

what a novel idea! I'll add something more substantive in a minute.

But we won't, of course. Too many people in our government have to stick their noses into everything. I just wish that it was their lives on the line when they decide to get involved.

Next thing you know they'll be sending 'peacekeepers' into Ukraine. Thanks to all the international corporations in America, there is no place on the globe that escapes 'American interests.' They balk about getting health insurance for people and giving people food stamps, but we can afford to throw around money in countries where we aren't wanted. I wish Americans would pay attention and get as fed up as I am, but I know they won't.

Two out of the three opposition parties are closely allied to conservatives in the EU, and the third are neonazis.

The Batkivshchyna (Fatherland) party, still lead by the imprisoned Julia Timosjenko, has status of observer with the EPP, the coalition of christian democratic and conservative parties in Europe. It's represented in the streets and the talks by Arseniy Yatsenyuk.

The second party is UDAR (Head butt), lead by boxing champion Vitali Klitschko, who lives in Germany himself. This party is a creation of Merkel's CDU and its arch-conservative thinktank the Konrad Adenauer Fund.

The third party involved is Svoboda (Freedom), which is arguably the most active. They are extreme right-wingers and cooperate with the Front National in France. It's lead by Oleh Tyahnybok.

Isn't it grand how the West comes to the rescue in defense of the right to protest (never mind OWS or Blockupy or spanish protest laws that mirror those of Ukraine now)? Well, I'm not buying that narrative. I do support people of any persuasion protesting and trying to find redress for their grievances.

EU or Russia. The status quo is to trade with Russia who supports the Ukraine economically with necessary bond buying whatever.

Gas issues will become a red herring. Russia has reduced the price of gas, the Ukraine still gets transit fees for gas to Europe but when Nord and Sud pipelines come onstream the Ukraine will be bypassed almost completely.

The opposition have a preference to trade within an EU agreement. I'm not sure how they think that will help the Ukraine the economic consequences of which seem to be a €220 billion black hole which would not otherwise occur. I might have more faith in the opposition if they at least made some proposals with regard to that subject.

It is possible that some are biased by the thought of Schengen visas which would accompany an EU trade agreement. If that is so then they simply don't understand the constraints of those visas which for Ukrainians would be the same as for example US citizens visiting Europe - 90 days and then go home same as the similar reciprocal agreement for Europeans visiting the US on the visa waiver program.

The vested interests of the USA on this subject are most likely connected with the desire to get the Ukraine into the anachronism known as NATO.

Funny how Romney thinks Putin is doing better on foreign policy than Obama and yet...Ukraine.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)[/center][/font][hr]

Yanukovich was going to sign a pro-EU agreement. However, he took a trip to Russia and met Putin. He came back with a signed pro-Russian document. I can imagine what Putin said to him. After that, all hell really broke loose.

So threads like this are helpful to fill in the missing pieces for me. Thanks!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)[/center][/font][hr]

Putin precipitated this with his threats to cut off trade with the Ukraine if they signed the agreement with the EU. There was no need for that, of course, Ukraine could have maintained existing trade ties with Russia, but Putin was having none of it. Of course many of the usual suspects will some way to blame that on the U.S. as well.

With the coalition of unlikeable groups such as the white supremacists being involved. Kerry's proclamation of 'standing with the people of Ukraine' sounds wishy-washy.

But at least the U.S. is making public pronouncements in an attempt to defuse the situation. Whatever Putin is doing behind the scenes, he has had little public presence in the matter when it comes to crossing to our side of the world.

When Obama/Kerry say something, the entire world listens.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)[/center][/font][hr]

... But make no mistake, Vladimir Putin wants to rebuild the Soviet Empire and he's willing to be damn nasty to do it. Remember his background in the KGB, he knows EXACTLY what he's doing here.

waste the time to tell someone to look something up themselves when it would take the same amount of time and effort to offer something substantive.