then 5 SC justices.

No witnesses. Zimmerman can say Martin pushed or struck him. Then it's how the jury reads the "stand your ground" law.

I wonder how many times Zimmerman applied for a cop job. Can you imagine this sick fuck with a gun and badge?

I don't wish death on anybody, but Zimmerman won't last long in general population.


--imm

As long as there were no witnesses, all one would have to do is claim that they felt threatened.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002442421

This information in a great post by Are Grits Groceries.

In short, murder is all but legal in Florida.

--imm

describing the shooting?

Also I heard that two girls have stated they saw the event and apparently do not corroborate Zimmerman's story.

where two neighbors stated that while they did not see the actual shooting, they heard someone yelling for help and the yelling stop right after the shot.

Bad law, crazy (sort of) white guy, black victim/perp. Goes to a jury of -- whom?

See this post. Murder is legal in Florida.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002442421


--imm

What exactly did he perpetrate, other than acting "suspicious" in a white neighborhood? Shit, I do that every day.

I'm not calling him a perp. Zimmerman's lawyer will surely do it.

For the record, I think Zimmerman should be put away. I think he is a paranoid nut. If psychiatric help were available I'd recommend it, though it's a bit too late. If this were a civilized country, I suspect Zimmerman would have been scooped up a long time ago.


--imm

I agree that this might not have happened had Martin been white, since we, in the U.S. are conditioned to be generally afraid/suspicious of Black males, and particularly young Black males.

But, what is historically evident is that:

1) Had Zimmerman been Black, he would have been arrested, charged and tried, regardless of the race of Martin.

2) Had Martin been white and with Zimmerman being white, Zimmerman also would have been arrested, charged and tried.

In both cases, the Probable Cause for the arrest and charge is the shooting and death of an individual at the hands of another individual. Whether the shooting was in self-defense or not is a question for a jury.

This matter is a clear illustration of Justice Brennan's dissenting opinion in McClesky v. Kemp.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCleskey_v._Kemp

You can hear the terrified boy screaming for help in the background. All I can say is "Self-defense, my fat ass!" Ed Schultz had a vet call in this afternoon, who said that he runs into people like the shooter all the time. The first thing they ask him is how many people he killed over in Afghanistan/Iraq. The vet described them as military/police academy rejects, who turn to vigilantism in response to the rejection. It's kind of scary to realize that people like this shooter are not uncommon.

The atmosphere over in the African American forum pretty much is in solidarity with you.

Trayvon - to date - still has not done anything threatening or suspicious. This Zimmerman guy? He's a worthless piece of shit.

And you know what? He's not even racist per se - he's just using his 'appears white' privilege. Seriously - and have you seen his fathers statements essentially stating that his son 'likes the blacks and the blacks like him"? Yep - sitting her rolling my eyes.

The gun laws have been expanded such that just about anything goes for the "self-defense" claim.

See this post by Are Grits Groceries.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002442421

--imm

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002443146#post1

[div class='excerpt']776.041 Use of force by aggressor.
The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or

(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

Florida law says that you can't use this defense if you are the aggressor.

And I got angry all over again.

. . . . and that the vigilante was reasonably sure he was going to be harmed by the young man. Let's assume that for the moment.

As soon as the tape started recording the young man pleading for help, for his life, the tables were turned. The vigilante went from potential victim, to certain aggressor.

It is on the tape.

Clear as day.

"HEEELLLLLPPPP! HEEEELLLLLP! HEEEELLLLLPPPPPP MMMEEEEE!"

When city officials say "We don't need you to follow him" that means back off. The second that shooter disobeyed security procedures, he established premeditation. I agree he didn't intend to kill when he set our, but he did intend to violate the directives of the emergency response officials. Perhaps she could have said it more forcefully ("Don't follow him" instead of "don't need you to&quot but it's pretty clear that he was defying the will of the security professionals.

He should be treated like any other gang member who, contrary to actual city law, was marking out and "defending" his turf. This is lawlessness. This seems at least like 2nd degree homocide to me (depending on how the laws of the state run).

It really gets down to words. The cop will testify that he didn't tell Zimmerman to back off. Tape verifies it. There goes that part of your argument. There will be an argument for everything, and if it amounts to reasonable doubt in one juror's mind, Zimmerman walks.

--imm

I don't come to DU either to argue for the defense or the prosecution. I care about understanding more than everyone agreeing on how to see this horrible event.

But this is a jurisdiction that allows vigilantes to walk the streets, armed, looking people like Tayvon Martin.

I get more upset the more I hear about this.

The shooter followed this young man and gunned him down.

Justice demands the arrest and prosecution of the shooter.

.... his girlfriend, said he was being followed, felt nervous, etc.

This is looking worse by the day.

"Stand your ground" my ass.

Fuck the vigilantes.

K&R