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Recursion

(56,582 posts)
Mon Feb 3, 2014, 06:44 AM Feb 2014

The one verifiable quote by Woodrow Wilson about "Birth of a Nation"

"I do not approve of this unfortunate production."

That's per Imtiaz Ali, Bombay filmmaker and film historian (he gave a talk last night).

It's interesting: Bollywood directors take early Hollywood incredibly seriously and pretend that post-1970 Hollywood (once the "auteur-director" fad came in) doesn't exist. I asked him about that and he said that the Mumbai pendulum swings a different way, not between director and studio, but between studio and actor. There's probably a lot to be said for that view.

Anyways, Ali had fished through every White House and US press archive he could find, and could only find that one single quote by Wilson on Birth of a Nation. Everything else was simply something the studio claimed. Just thought I would get that out there.

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The one verifiable quote by Woodrow Wilson about "Birth of a Nation" (Original Post) Recursion Feb 2014 OP
On the evening of March 21, 1915, President Woodrow Wilson attended a special screening at the WH no_hypocrisy Feb 2014 #1
The only source for that quote is the movie's producer Recursion Feb 2014 #2
Point taken. no_hypocrisy Feb 2014 #3
Birth of a Nation - now there's a film to talk about el_bryanto Feb 2014 #4
Similar edhopper Feb 2014 #5
My mother loved it - I never could get into it myself. el_bryanto Feb 2014 #6
"Gone With The Wind" edhopper Feb 2014 #7
Why don't you read the book. That way, you might get it. n/t Egalitarian Thug Feb 2014 #9
I'm more likely to read "The Wind Done Gone" el_bryanto Feb 2014 #11
And that's exactly why there are so many things you don't, and likely, Egalitarian Thug Feb 2014 #12
So I'm really missing out by not getting Gone With the Wind? el_bryanto Feb 2014 #13
It's not Gone With the Wind specifically, it's your incurious nature. Egalitarian Thug Feb 2014 #15
You don't really know me at all el_bryanto Feb 2014 #17
Yes, I do. One of the greatest failings of youth is the lack of understanding that you Egalitarian Thug Feb 2014 #18
Oh? Well that's interesting. I'm always interested in self improvment el_bryanto Feb 2014 #19
This message was self-deleted by its author Egalitarian Thug Feb 2014 #22
Well, there you go. n/t Egalitarian Thug Feb 2014 #23
You are really a nice guy. So basically I have to read that racist pro-slavery book el_bryanto Feb 2014 #24
It's not an argument at all. I thought that that was clear. My mistake. Egalitarian Thug Feb 2014 #26
Also while we are at it why don't you bother Edhopper - he's not keen on the movie/book either. nt el_bryanto Feb 2014 #20
To what purpose? n/t Egalitarian Thug Feb 2014 #8
I was a bit surprised about that quote steve2470 Feb 2014 #10
And thus the explanation... Egalitarian Thug Feb 2014 #14
hm didn't know about the bewilderment, thank you ! nt steve2470 Feb 2014 #16
The difference between intellectual experience garnered through a life in academia and the Egalitarian Thug Feb 2014 #21
Wilson was a notorious racist. former9thward Feb 2014 #25

no_hypocrisy

(46,133 posts)
1. On the evening of March 21, 1915, President Woodrow Wilson attended a special screening at the WH
Mon Feb 3, 2014, 06:33 PM
Feb 2014

After seeing the film, an enthusiastic Wilson reportedly remarked: "It is like writing history with lightning, and my only regret is that it is all so terribly true."

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/jimcrow/stories_events_birth.html

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
2. The only source for that quote is the movie's producer
Tue Feb 4, 2014, 06:54 AM
Feb 2014

That's my point.

Note, "Woodrow Wilson reportedly remarked". The "reportedly" is because the only source for that is the advertisement posters the producer used in the South.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
4. Birth of a Nation - now there's a film to talk about
Tue Feb 4, 2014, 09:57 AM
Feb 2014

Because it is revolutionary in the way it uses the camera and tells a story - but the story it tells is a horrible one. How do you square that circle? I guess you just watch it for it's technical aspects and then go watch Intolerance which is a better film reportedly.

Bryant

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
6. My mother loved it - I never could get into it myself.
Tue Feb 4, 2014, 10:10 AM
Feb 2014

But that at least has the romance angle; if you take it as Scarlet O'Hara's story, well, she's a flawed character from our point of view because she's a unapologetic slave owner, but she progresses through the story and learns a lesson.

Which come to think of it is that she needs a man to take care of her.

Yeah - I just don't get Gone with the Wind.

I do enjoy Charlie Chan movies though; and those have plenty of old fashioned racism in them.

Bryant

edhopper

(33,594 posts)
7. "Gone With The Wind"
Tue Feb 4, 2014, 10:16 AM
Feb 2014

refers to the glorious life of the Southerners before the Civil war blew it away.
I don't remember Scarlet regretting slavery, just that her pampered life had her obsessed with things that made it difficult to deal with hardship when it came. And it's portrayal of slavery was grotesquely pleasant.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
11. I'm more likely to read "The Wind Done Gone"
Tue Feb 4, 2014, 10:31 AM
Feb 2014

And more likely to read a nonfiction historical account then either.

Bryant

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
13. So I'm really missing out by not getting Gone With the Wind?
Tue Feb 4, 2014, 10:38 AM
Feb 2014

In a world of thousands of things to read, why does Gone With the Wind deserve my attention?

Bryant

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
15. It's not Gone With the Wind specifically, it's your incurious nature.
Tue Feb 4, 2014, 10:43 AM
Feb 2014

That you even ask why this book deserves your attention, clearly demonstrates the issue.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
17. You don't really know me at all
Tue Feb 4, 2014, 10:49 AM
Feb 2014

I am a very curious person interested in all kinds of things; but I can't be interested in everything at once. There is a whole world out there of materials to read and watch and listen to. You have to decide what you are going to be interested in.

And based of what I know of Gone with the Wind it's not worth my time; if you know differently make the case. But just insulting me isn't really the answer.

Bryant

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
18. Yes, I do. One of the greatest failings of youth is the lack of understanding that you
Tue Feb 4, 2014, 12:17 PM
Feb 2014

are not unique. That most of us have already been there. thought that, tried that, and learned what it yields.

OTOH, if you're over 35 - 40 and still don't understand this, it's certainly a waste of time explaining it. I've read your writings for over a year now, so I have an idea of where you come from and where your are.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
19. Oh? Well that's interesting. I'm always interested in self improvment
Tue Feb 4, 2014, 12:21 PM
Feb 2014

Where do I come from and where am I? What's your analysis of my character?

I'm 42, so I'm not a youth.

Bryant

Response to el_bryanto (Reply #19)

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
24. You are really a nice guy. So basically I have to read that racist pro-slavery book
Tue Feb 4, 2014, 01:05 PM
Feb 2014

Or else I'm narrow minded and juvenile. What a piece of crap argument.

Bryant

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
26. It's not an argument at all. I thought that that was clear. My mistake.
Tue Feb 4, 2014, 01:23 PM
Feb 2014

Pretending that you won't read Pulitzer Prize winning novel because it's "pro-slavery" and racist is perfectly indicative.

I'm still waiting for recursion to answer the simple question posed at the beginning of this.

I don't expect an answer, the reason is clear to most of us, I was just curious as to whether he had the courage of his convictions and would come right out and say it.

Most likely, any reply will be feigned innocence.

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
10. I was a bit surprised about that quote
Tue Feb 4, 2014, 10:29 AM
Feb 2014
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodrow_Wilson#African_Americans

Several historians have described Wilson's policies as racist;[182][183][184] some also describe Wilson personally as a racist.[185][186]

In his book, History of the American People, Wilson depicted white European immigrants with empathy while African American immigrants and their children were regarded as unsuitable for citizenship and unable to assimilate positively into American society.[187] Wilson believed that slavery was wrong on economic labor grounds, rather than for moral reasons.[187] Wilson idealized the slavery system in the South, having viewed masters as patient with "indolent" slaves, whom Wilson believed were like "shiftless children". Wilson held contempt for the belief that African Americans could be free and self-governing.[187] In terms of Reconstruction, Wilson held the common neo-Confederate view that the South was demoralized by Northern carpetbaggers and Congressional imposition of black equality justified extreme measures to reassert white supremacist national and state governments.[188] Wilson viewed blacks as related to the animal world, having illustrated an elderly black man with monkey features.[188] Wilson publicly and privately referred to blacks as "darkies".[188]

In 1912, "an unprecedented number"[184] of African Americans left the Republican Party to cast their vote for Wilson, a Democrat. They were encouraged by his promises of support for minorities. However, once in office, Wilson's cabinet members expanded racially segregationist policies. Black leaders who had supported Wilson in the 1912 election were angered when Wilson placed segregationist white Southerners in charge of many executive departments,[184][189] and the administration acted to reduce the already-meager number of African-Americans in political-appointee positions.[182][189] Wilson's cabinet officials, with the president's blessing, proceeded to establish official segregation in most federal government offices – in some departments for the first time since 1863.[184] New facilities were designed to keep the races working there separated.

Historian Eric Foner says, "[Wilson's] administration imposed full racial segregation in Washington and hounded from office considerable numbers of black federal employees."[182] Segregation was also quickly implemented at the Post Office Department headquarters in Washington, D.C. Many African American employees were downgraded and even fired. The segregation implemented in the Department of the Treasury and the Post Office Department involved not only screened-off working spaces, but also separate lunchrooms and toilets.
 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
14. And thus the explanation...
Tue Feb 4, 2014, 10:41 AM
Feb 2014
However, once in office, Wilson's cabinet members expanded racially segregationist policies. Black leaders who had supported Wilson in the 1912 election were angered when Wilson placed segregationist white Southerners in charge of many executive departments, and the administration acted to reduce the already-meager number of African-Americans in political-appointee positions.


Wilson was the first President explicitly installed in the White House by the banking industry to do the bidding of his masters. He was completely out of his depth and constantly bewildered by what was done by the people he appointed at the bidding of his patrons.
 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
21. The difference between intellectual experience garnered through a life in academia and the
Tue Feb 4, 2014, 12:39 PM
Feb 2014

experience gained through living in the real world. I believe that Wilson had nothing but good intentions and believed that he could determine outcomes. He had no previous experience with the people that would eventually run his White House and set his agenda, and he found himself helpless once elected. He was a southern racist (the first southerner elected to the White house in over 40 years) who campaigned on having no obligation to any of the bosses, yet he possessed no experience in dealing with them.

He was the quintessential front man conned by TPTB, largely through the idiotic notion of compromise, into implementing their plans to achieve their goals, much like our current President.

former9thward

(32,030 posts)
25. Wilson was a notorious racist.
Tue Feb 4, 2014, 01:09 PM
Feb 2014

What he said or didn't say about the Birth of a Nation is besides the point.

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