We, as a people, keep falling for rich people (ever heard of self funding candidates?) who talk a good game to get elected and then govern like rich people.

And THEN, like the dumbasses we are, we're surprised when they don't understand the plight of the middle class and poor.

We LET THEM BUY OUR GOVENMENT. Hell, we voted for them to do it.

Remember this headline:

Half of Congress Members Are Millionaires, Report Says

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/10/us/politics/more-than-half-the-members-of-congress-are-millionaires-analysis-finds.html

I mean keeping Reagan out of office would be good; but the repeal of Glass Steagel happened on Clintons watch.

Bryant

“Congress not only seems more responsive to policy desires of the very rich, but increasingly they are the very rich,” said Josh Bivens, director of research at the Economic Policy Institute, a liberal Washington-based research group that focuses on income inequity and poverty. “They probably know far fewer people cut off by the failure to extend unemployment benefits, and that makes them less sensitive to just how much damage that cutoff is going to cause.”

Politics is an extension of the popular will and values.

The popular will and values keep electing outright blatant bastards -- and we also keep electing people who talk a good game, but don't mean it.

into law but they had a veto proof majority so it didn't matter. Every person in Congress that voted for that was elected by someone. Your cop out blame Clinton language is exactly why we find ourselves in the position we're in. Minimum wage and it's increases came through mass protest. Ditto civil rights. We have a media we can't count on to tell the truth to the masses, we have to do our best to make sure our fellow man know the truth. The tea party members are active in everything from local school board elections up to the president. They give their time and money. Shoot, there are videotapes of those guys going to training to learn how to clog up message boards with their message. That's dedication. We have to give more and work harder than ever before during the elections. The good news is that it will be worth more than at any other time.
go back and read your statement and then ask yourself if you truly think you're part of the solution or part of the problem.

What about when the Clinton Cabinet members shut down and humiliated one of their analysts who was looking at regulating the derivatives market?

Bryant

legislation. The point is, it's done. What are we going to do now? Popular support wasn't behind a lot of bank regulation and similar legislation to help control Wall Street. If for no other reason than people had no idea of the potential effect. We do now. Even agencies that protect the average American like the Consumer board or the NLRB are in existence but under constant threat from the right. They're blocking nominations of appointees (which has now been stopped) and they're trying to defund the agencies every opportunity they get. The business interests are fighting every single chance they get. They aren't sitting back saying, "well, the consumer agency is law now. Might as well give up and play nice." They're still fighting every regulation, every dollar and every appointee. We have to do the same.
We will get back from our government what we put into it. Minimum wage legislation for $10.10 per hour would give that worker an almost 40% pay raise over the next couple of years. How much should one person fight for that kind of increase in income? It's not just political ideals. If we don't spend the time, money and energy fighting against big business we'll spend the same time, money and energy working for them for the same pay. It's a no-brainer, really.

"They" had a veto-proof majority, so he HAD to sign it.
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.
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I think not.
Bill Clinton had a wonderful opportunity to Stand on Principle without any real consequences,
but chose to Go along with the show anyway.

How about telling the whole story?
I think the more power you have over things the more responsible you are for the way things are. Most of us have a vote and our ability to talk to each other but we don't have the Koch's power.
Our power lies in our ability to work together on common goals.

educate and fund candidates. Their power is barely threatening when you consider that for every million dollars they spend it takes less than ten cents from each person on our side to match it. We can do even more damage if we donate plus boycott their products and those who support Republican causes.

Here's the simplest example I can think of. For presidential elections I have two choices: vote or don't vote. Now, it's pretty well determined that (1) I will vote and (2) for the Dem. What would you suggest I do differently?

and don't enable hypocrites.

dollars by all of us equal the millions spent by the wealthiest. You can help get the message out on websites, twitter, facebook. You can sign petitions, march in protests and keep yourself educated as to the biggest problems. We aren't losing because we don't vote for the right person. We lose because it's all we do.

Until Americans nut up and accept our individual responsibilities as citizens, nothing will change.

Good OP!

politics and the ones we elect, however we have facilitated all of it, especially with our "consumerism"...we are distracted by shiny shit and can't focus elsewhere. Shiny shit in consumerism distracts you as much as "hope" in politics.

Not saying we can avoid contributing to the multi-national exploitation...But we have to look at ways to cut back on support of bad practices and businesses -- and demand better behavior and look for alternatives as much as possible.

And not let ourselves get distracted by so many shiny objects.

Oh it's easy and great fun to point fingers at pols and voters and all of that but...where does it get us except more divided?

Nope, the force that drives this runaway train is greed, pure and simple. It's all about the money. Where does all the money that fuels corruption come from? You and me!

Americans are conditioned to buy. Keep buying! It will make you happy/healthy/more beautiful/sexy/rich/smart!1!

There are those without who can barely buy what they need, they subsist. There are those who make just enough. There are way more who make more than enough (in varying degrees) to keep the status quo nice and steady. Oh sure many who are in this position like to cry poor or make a lot of noise about the poor but do nothing else. Some even truly believe they have it pretty rough because they cannot afford everything they want.

Stop buying things you absolutely do not need and the rich will suffer for it. Keep buying whatever you want, justify it as you like and watch nothing change.

Now let's see what happens. The last time I posted such a thing someone got very defensive about their spending habits and refused to apologize (something like that) cause they worked oh-so-hard for their money!1! Will any so totally miss the point this time around?

Julie

My Wife & I went On Strike in 2005.
We cashed out, sold everything else,
and bought Rural property in the South.
We moved there in 2006,
and live there now.
Wall Street can live or die without our money or concern.

We grow a good percentage of our own food,
keep chickens and Honey Bees,
and use renewable resources (wood) for our heat during the Winters.

Our yearly goals are to !CONSUME! less
Produce MORE,
lessen our Carbon Footprint,
and make a difference in local Humanitarian Issues.

So far, so good.

Well done!

Bravo, bvar22. You have taken the first step to moving under the radar, getting off the grid, leaving the matrix! I wish you the best in your future. If more of us do this, we can win back our freedom.

The power the people have is no longer in the voting booth, as we have seen. It is at the cash register. If you shop at stores that pay slave wages, you are enabling that. If you buy products because they have a nice, socially conscious commercial, yet kill union organizers and steal water, you are enabling that. It's hard, fucking really hard, to forego comfort at the expense of principles. It's hard to be a part of this society which needs things like the computer I am typing on and still fight for fairness and equity. It's hard not to choose the cheapest item because in the end, it robs your fellow workers of pay and rights.

But the more we become conscious, the more we support good businesses, the more we as consumers demand products without traces of blood, we can shift. It's hard, I wish there was a manual so I didn't have to weigh every thing that I buy. I wish ethical companies and products were everywhere. But it is our elementary duty to do the best we can. Don't let them get away with it. We need to wake up from this glutton-induced slumber.

is to buy used things when I can. I know this isn't always possible but when it is, I like to do so so that I'm not fueling demand for stuff.

When I do buy new I too have to try to find locally or at least American made. It's as challenging a you describe.

Julie

But most importantly I have tried to pare myself down to absolute necessities. It takes a lot of work, but it is freeing on many levels. Many of my friends give me crap, but I find it one way to walk the talk.

The wealthy own the laws and the military/police.

I'm pretty sure I didn't cast a vote for that, but it happened anyway.

I'm pretty sure I protested against the useless Failure Führer wars in the 2000s, on both Bewsh AND Obama's terms (although the latter felt like I was at a Wrong Pall rally . . . lots of libertarians there . . . kind of rubbed me the wrong way), but war happened anyway.

I attended the "Million Worker March" in the mid-2000's, but wholesale corporate fuckery happened anyway.

So, unless I till the soil, give up what little possessions I have and live like a nomad and just tell the kid "you're not going to college because I decided to not continue living easily anymore; it just continues patriarch plantation capitalism.", I'm STILL part of the problem?

I'm not trying to antagonize, but there just doesn't seem to be a blueprint here beyond "You're part of the problem and that's THAT."

My point was that -- in both a general and personal sense -- it's important to look at all of the things we do or don't do (commission and omission) to enable it.

Sometimes I go to Wal Mart....Yeah, I know, but there are times when they have things I can't get otherwise. Every times I do that, i'm contributing to the Walton Oligarchs, and the rotten system they have built.

I try to go somewhere else whenever possible, preferably a local business. The more I do that the less I am contributing to the problem and more I am supporting the alternatives. And the more I follow those better instincts, the more I am contributing to a solution.

No easy answers, but we all have to look at our habits, and what we do and don't do -- and which politicians we support. Beyond the obvious of opposing the blatant shitheads, we also have to make those who claim to support us to walk the talk.

as much as my thin wallet, my lifestyle as example and my mouth can say but when you get shut down by those who are consumed by their consumerism and get death threats, when is that not enough? I'm too old to be out marching anymore, though I was doing that during Vietnam war and for decades beyond, I can't handle physical abuse at this point and I had to sequester myself to avoid any more personal damage.

I laud this OP and hope that others are inspired to act. I still do what I can but I have to pass the torch off to those who can take the abuse and hopefully help others see the light at the end of this sewer pipe.

I'm here, I vote, I try to convince others of the situation and why the current collective value set needs to change but the distractions are great and hard to get anyone to look away from for even a few moments to think for themselves. I'm close to giving up but haven't succumbed to it yet.

I do spend time going into a more spiritual place to keep my sanity. I have lots of role models, those are but two.

to make a difference and how good you feel as a result. I assume you think your protests against Vietnam and such were worth it. You are one who has done what needs to be done. Let others know it can be done and it makes a difference. You can be a cheerleader for a generation that hasn't realized they hold more power than they think. It's always darkest before the dawn. People are beginning to see the light and the power of the people. Look at those protesting last summer in Texas and N. Carolina, the folks that fought for minimum wage in front of McDonalds and other fast food places. You've led by example, people are getting the message and waking up. Thank you for showing it matters.

convince those younger than I am and talk things over with my cohorts but so many have bought into and become addicted to what they believe to be the mandated way of life and the convenience meme that they can't imagine what they could do to change how they contribute to their own demise, socially and biologically, they just can't break away from the norms they have been conditioned to see as mandatory for life.

Granted I confess to being footloose and somewhat fancy free in younger years when trying to fit in but it never was comfortable. I can't live with those values and i don't fit in because of it.

I can only reach those who are willing to hear what I have to say and who realize why I live like I do, and they are sadly, few.

or SHOULD be struggling.

According to IRS stats from 2010, 25% of the country makes more than $69,000.

Are those people struggling in the same way as those who make less than that amount? Are they struggling in the same way as the 50% who make less than $34,338?

Further, those numbers have not changed that much over the last decade, although in 'real' terms, the income required to get into the top 50% has fallen by about 9%, but much of that drop has been in the last three years of recession 2007-2010. Whereas inequality has been growing for decades.

Heck, I was reading about oligopolies in the 1980s.

There's a lot of factor that go into those numbers. The situation of people has to be taken into account.

I'm single and have no dependents, so I can get by on a household income that is less than a married couple and much less than a couple of has kids. So I could stretch $34,000 a lot more than a family. And i still would not be doing great.

So when you factor all of those people in that category of less than $34,000, consider whether that's one or two salaries, and whether they have kids, their needs, etc. that leaves a lot open to the notion of struggling.

And 25 percent making more than $69,000 -- well depending on their situation, number of kids, how many breadwinners, etc. that leaves open a lot of -- if not struggling, at least having a harder time.

I made a whole whopping $8700.00 before adjustments because the only work I could find was during April-September work season. (And don't get me wrong, I am thankful to have had that and if I were in a city, I doubt I would have fared as well given my age and too high of an education! Aside from the fact that I wouldn't have had affordable housing without having to live with someone else... not a healthy situation for me. At least I can get seasonal work at all... and this winter is pretty skimpy for the normally hopping winter season. All my friends who own businesses down in touristown near me have been sweating it all winter and don't see how they will come out in the black by April. If these folks were doing better, I'd be working this winter.)

I would think that for a family of four living within their means on $69K a year comes out to a whopping $331.73 per month per person. That's before taxes. If you consider that housing for four is anywhere from $800. for cheap housing and then a car, ins. for that one car and clothing, food... there isn't going to be anything left for much and would easily land them in a deficit lifestyle considering all the other expenses involved in maintaining even the bare minimums for life in any way imaginable. If you are trying to manage on less than that, you've got some serious financial problems. And that's just based on an average family of four, gets worse with more in the family and even if it's just two it's still $663.46/person/month which still isn't a liveable income after taxes.

Just sayin'.

does NOT double expenses. I could put three people in the house where I live - easily. Four, if I wanted to be a little bit crowded. And my other expenses would not double (or triple).

My garbage bill would not increase at all.
My heat bill would not double.
My electric bill would not double even if I used twice as much electricity.
I would not need two cars (even though I sorta have them (one needs a new radiator)) because I barely drive one.

And if $69,000 is not a liveable income, then how do so many people live on so much less?

in the environment within which happen to find ourselves.

It requires acrobatic level resourcefulness, and we have to choose between several needs and conduct triage in order to determine which we will do without each day or week or month. I eat one meal a day and drink coffee in the morning because it dampens my appetite, I do as much free exercise as possible to try and keep my body in shape so I can get by without eating more and medical needs.

Trust me, if you've never had to be concerned about how cold it will be tonight because you will be sleeping in something other than a heated structure, it would be hard to explain.

That's how we survive on less than appropriate income whether we work or not. If I were making $30K a year, it would be like heaven but I would still be living as frugally as possible because it would still be spent on only things I need, I'd just be able to have to do without fewer things and I could replace a couple things that are now worn out.

or $40,000 or $50,000.

They make considerably less than $69,000 but they survive.

Myself, I was making about $12,000 just three years ago, and I not only survived, I can count lots and lots of what I would call luxuries.

I have THREE dogs. (crazy, I know)
I belong to Kiwanis (costs me about $500 a year)
I drink lots of soda (costs me about $300 a year)
I have high speed internet
I subscribe to a genealogical service.

I live pretty cheaply, but nowhere near the bone.

To survive on your income though, does require some tricks, although I have done it. From June 1987 to August 1988, I lived on my savings (and some interest income). I was down to about $1,000 by August. I bought a trailer in July and lived there. No running water. No electricity. No plumbing, and heat from a wood stove I bought and installed (okay, my bro-in-law did most of the work on that).

That winter, I closed off everything but one room and slept on a mattress on the floor by the stove. I had to put my milk in the non-working refrigerator to keep it from freezing. I had no car, and the nearest grocery store was four miles away, although I more often went to the one that was seven miles away. And it really WAS "uphill both ways" because the land went up and down and up and down.

I cut and split most of the wood myself too, although dad came one day with his chainsaw and helped. Otherwise, luddite that I am, I was using a 48" bow saw (and an axe that was kinda worthless, although I took one elm partway down with it (over a period of three months, I would chop at it maybe ten, fifteen minutes at a time, got halfway through before using the saw.)

But that's country living. I don't see how that could be done in an urban, or even small town setting, and I don't expect most people to live like that in this century.

For example, I don't consider myself as responsible for the mess we are in as Richard Nixon. Also, some of us have tried to do the right thing, some have done nothing, and some have been aggressively evil.

But the more we can push ourselves and society in the direction of doing the right things, the better off we'll all be.

I just think we all could use some soul searching about it once in a while.

Hmmm....maybe there's an app for that!

You can do a lot of thinking while whacking the slingshot

I've found that out when posting similar threads. The majority will likely misread or misstate what you've written and come here to attack you for not blaming everyone else BUT them.

Regardless, I'll accept my blame and give this a K&R!

Good luck.

Not being serious.

Through an infinitely complicated set of circumstances, we all helped to put them in power.

It's not a simple equation.

But yo use one example, when Clinton pushed to deregulate the media, he let loose their more irresponsible and greedy side. It was inexcusable for him to allow a handful of media conglomerated to take over so much, and not to expect any social responsibility in return.

Therefore it comes back to us if we voted for him and otherwise supported him.

That's just one example of many how we all as a society enable these bastids.

What I am saying is that we have to take a cold hard look in the collective mirror and what we have done or haven't done in the course of our lives to allow this. And more importantly, what can we do differently? Even those of us who are trying to do the right thing.

contributing to and the special favors every extra dollar in the markets allows lobbyists to buy. It is a hard thing to break from. Harder as the amount of funds in question grows.
I am still responsible for what my investments did and only the passing of time masks the pain from those wounds. But does nothing to help those I helped to suffer and profit from.
We are all responsible (some much more so than others) but every day brings an opportunity to turn from the proceeds of death and assured misery to one of positive outputs, love and respect for others and our planet.

Many people just put money into something and add to the pressure for business to act awful.

But they're isolated from the awfulness of their investments.

That's one good example of what I'm talking about.

In reality we only had two choices and one was much worse than the other. You can't blame everybody who voted for the lesser evil when that was the only responsible option. Not voting was not an realistic option.

Get real.

It goes far beyond voting for the lesser evil.

It goes to the heart of why we allow ourselves to be forced into a choice of the lesser of evils.

And it goes way beyond politics. It's a whole matrix of values and what we condone in all aspects of life.

is unlikely to change significantly without the active participation of government, which means elections, which means voting.

straight democratic ticket no matter how much the democratic candidate favored corporations over people. That ends now.

When it comes to money, it's an illusion. We have no choice and never had. Anything that doesn't cost the wealthy a dime? Sure, they'll give us that and we'll hold up scrap they threw on the floor and say "LOOK AT US! LOOK WHAT WE ACCOMPLISHED!" We're good little doggies that way, proud of our scraps.

The two-party system with unregulated money is the best disguised authoritarian government of all time.

No thanks, no sale.

This is a system we're all a part of.

When you assign superhuman powers to others, there no way to fight those who you see as oppressing you.

You've assigned a decision to those that never had one and then blame them for the results of their victimization.

You're more than just totally wrong on this, you've crossed over into the realm of advocate of pure evil.

Are you a religious person?

I'd explain what I meant in more detail to you, but why bother?

So if it'll make you happy:

Yes, I believe Jesus is going to descend from the clouds and slay these Demons of Babylon who are so much more powerful than we mere mortals.

Satisfied?

Remember telling me how US autoworkers "can't compete"? Now remember complaining about YOU having to compete with H1B visa workers?

How do your positions make any sense?

Has happened in the last 35 years. I fought againt it for years.

I've done what I can to reverse the crap, both personally and in my career.

But I've also made tons of compromises and played the game along the way.

With a tiny few exceptions, we all do that to varying degrees. We have to in order to survive...and to lead a reasonably happy satisfying life.

For one tiny example, I'm typing this on a computer and sending it via my subscription to my cable/internet compamny while is a Media Empire. . I am feeding the coffers of the media giants, and the keys I type on were probably made in a sweatshop overseas. ... It goes on and on.

I can do more to stop it....I know nothing about you, but i assume you could do more in a pure sense.

to blame for where we are socially, economically, politically, financially ect...

Well there are things we can control and there are things that are beyond our ability to control or influence. I am all for accepting blame for my actions or inactions but I don't subscribe to the notion that because x company decides to use slave labor for example that I have any ability to control that companies decisions and I will not accept blame for other peoples greed.

Yes I purchased a dell computer and know how its created but, I don't get a financial say in how its made except in my own small pocketbook in what I purchase.

Again maybe I am reading the OP wrong but, I just will not accept that it is "The little peoples" "fault if only we did more"...that the wealthy are fucking narcissistic sociopaths bent on recreating a feudal society...

It IS societies fault for allowing un-provable elections to occur and allowing prostitutes for corporations to run this country...but again the only way to fix that is going to be a massive change in government personnel via the VOTE or by protest. If voting even matters anymore...

You want real change? You should be advocating the "peoples" should storm Washington and not leave until income and tax disparities are redressed...and that there is a true prosecutable payola law against congress taking bribe money to promote the rich's agenda over the wishes of their constituents.

In my 70+ years that is the ONLY thing that has ever changed anything in this countries government is when we nationally raised hell on the ellipse in DC...

But hey, what do I know, I'm just another poor drone trying to feed myself and my doggies off what ever I can grow or trade for...

My point in the OP was that we often tend to point the finger at "them" for the problems. Liberals tend to point to the leaders of Big Bidness and Corrupt Politicians and Wealthy Owners. (Conservatives point the finger at Government and "those people" .e. liberals, minorities, etc.)

I do it myself, and there's a lot of truth to that.

However, I think it's also important to remember that these people and businesses only have power because we have given it to them. They have it because we buy shit that feeds their coffers or we vote for them, even when we know better or go for the "lesser of evils" argument.

They also have it because average people (on all sides of the spectrum) buy into the lies and propaganda -- and/or we become so cynical that we give up opposing or trying to restrain them.

The amount of responsibility varies. Some (such as the average people in the wrong-headed Right) actively advance the agenda of the Bastids. Others, such as typical liberals/progressives, either compromise too much or else we are ineffective at getting the message out and gaining support for our principles. ...And many, perhaps a majority, contribute to it by doing nothing.

As with many other personal and social problems, the most important step to fixing a problem is to accept responsibility for it. Then look at ways to do better -- not perfect but better.

1) I don' believe that electing rich people to office is necessarily a mistake (see FDR). Someone who has little money, gets into office, will need a lot of money to get elected again.Hence the dependance on money from corporations.
2)If you only buy the bare necessities, meaning the demand decreases, companies will lay off workers, unemployment will go up even more. There have to be balances.
3) The problem of selecting the best people to office involves a) good information, b) the will and time to get that information. We seem to miss out on both at present imho.