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cali

(114,904 posts)
Tue Feb 4, 2014, 03:50 PM Feb 2014

Senior Justice Dept Official: NSA ‘Probably’ Spies on Members of Congress

The National Security Agency "probably" collects phone records of members of Congress and their staffs, a senior Justice Department official conceded Tuesday.

Deputy Attorney General James Cole buckled under questioning from multiple lawmakers during a House Judiciary Committee hearing reviewing proposals to reform the NSA's surveillance activity.

Rep. Zoe Lofgren, a California Democrat, began by asking Peter Swire, a member of the president's handpicked surveillance review board, whether lawmakers' numbers are included in the agency's phone-records sweeps. Swire protested that he was not a government official and couldn't best answer the question, but said he was unaware of any mechanism that "scrubbed out" member phone numbers from the agency's data haul.

Lofgren's time expired and Rep. Darrell Issa, a California Republican, then put the question to Cole.

<snip>

http://www.nationaljournal.com/technology/feds-nsa-probably-spies-on-members-of-congress-20140204

but but but, it's just metadata!

22 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Senior Justice Dept Official: NSA ‘Probably’ Spies on Members of Congress (Original Post) cali Feb 2014 OP
No shit, Sherlock. Scuba Feb 2014 #1
Um, right, that's what they were talking about -the metadata. randome Feb 2014 #2
Why the fuck would they have metadata of American citizens? neverforget Feb 2014 #3
That's the way they see it. randome Feb 2014 #4
Why would they keep it if not to look at it? neverforget Feb 2014 #5
The idea is that in the event of a real terrorist attack or any other disaster caused by humans... randome Feb 2014 #14
That's what warrants are for; you submit them AFTER a suspect has been neverforget Feb 2014 #17
So you're saying, in essence, that law enforcement should NEVER search for phone numbers. randome Feb 2014 #18
So basically you're saying the Constitution is outdated because it's the 21st Century and therefore neverforget Feb 2014 #20
Oh well if Carl Bernstein says its okay, then we all should just fuggaboudit? riderinthestorm Feb 2014 #21
My bullshit detector just went off big time. another_liberal Feb 2014 #9
I don't think Carl Bernstein is that naive. randome Feb 2014 #15
Sorry, but if it walks like a duck . . . another_liberal Feb 2014 #16
Are you still clinging to the It's only metadata meme? hootinholler Feb 2014 #11
The potential for blackmail is staggering. That it may have already been used for blackmail riderinthestorm Feb 2014 #6
Kick nt riderinthestorm Feb 2014 #7
We've got to defend the country from potential terrorists in the Senate, right? another_liberal Feb 2014 #8
Imagine the outcry if members of Congress were specifically excluded. Donald Ian Rankin Feb 2014 #10
I don't want my Congressman or Senator to be snooped on by Clapper and Alexander! another_liberal Feb 2014 #12
J Edgar Hoover with Supercomputers Octafish Feb 2014 #13
This would be funny if it were not also so pathetic. nt bemildred Feb 2014 #19
K&R woo me with science Feb 2014 #22
 

randome

(34,845 posts)
2. Um, right, that's what they were talking about -the metadata.
Tue Feb 4, 2014, 03:54 PM
Feb 2014

If they store copies of all the metadata, then, duh, they no doubt have the metadata of Congressional reps, as well. No one used the word 'spying' except the headline writer.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
4. That's the way they see it.
Tue Feb 4, 2014, 05:00 PM
Feb 2014

The metadata -supposedly- is kept in a locked box requiring multiple levels of approval to view. So is that spying?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
14. The idea is that in the event of a real terrorist attack or any other disaster caused by humans...
Tue Feb 4, 2014, 11:51 PM
Feb 2014

...they could quickly look up the phone numbers of collaborators. It makes sense -from an efficiency standpoint- to have the metadata on hand. Otherwise, they would need to go hat-in-hand to every telecom in the country to hand search their records.

I understand that some are worried this could somehow be abused but there is no evidence that it is and even Carl Bernstein said it seemed to him there were sufficient safeguards in place to prevent abuse.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
18. So you're saying, in essence, that law enforcement should NEVER search for phone numbers.
Wed Feb 5, 2014, 09:13 AM
Feb 2014

Because as of today there are hundreds of telecoms in the country. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_telephone_companies

Taking weeks (months?) to go to all these companies would effectively nullify the intent.

This is the 21st century. The Information Age. We need to adapt to the changes. That doesn't mean we give up our Constitutional liberties. It means exactly what I said...we adapt.

Searches of the metadata cannot be undertaken unless with a warrant or an identifiable national emergency. With multiple levels of approval needed to run queries on the metadata, this seems to be the kind of fine line we always walk between freedom and security. The line we will walk into the future, as well.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

neverforget

(9,436 posts)
20. So basically you're saying the Constitution is outdated because it's the 21st Century and therefore
Wed Feb 5, 2014, 09:39 PM
Feb 2014

the 4th Amendment doesn't apply. The companies hold onto this "metadata" and the police or intelligence agencies can submit a warrant for that information. WTF is hard to understand about that? Why are you so willing to let the NSA hold onto this metadata?

BTW I never said that the police should not search for phone numbers. You said that. If they need a specific phone number they can get a warrant. It seems to have worked fine up until now.

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
9. My bullshit detector just went off big time.
Tue Feb 4, 2014, 08:37 PM
Feb 2014

Anyone who would believe that nonsense would buy the Brooklyn Bridge from a cab driver on the make.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
15. I don't think Carl Bernstein is that naive.
Tue Feb 4, 2014, 11:53 PM
Feb 2014

But even if you think he is, there is no evidence the NSA is using this metadata to blackmail the world or whatever other nefarious schemes are bandied about.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)
[/center][/font][hr]

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
6. The potential for blackmail is staggering. That it may have already been used for blackmail
Tue Feb 4, 2014, 05:55 PM
Feb 2014

seems to me to be extremely probable.

There are few politicians with scruples - the more powerful they are, the more corrupt they are.

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
8. We've got to defend the country from potential terrorists in the Senate, right?
Tue Feb 4, 2014, 08:35 PM
Feb 2014

Would you believe it's all a matter of protecting the national interests and stuff?

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
10. Imagine the outcry if members of Congress were specifically excluded.
Tue Feb 4, 2014, 08:37 PM
Feb 2014

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
12. I don't want my Congressman or Senator to be snooped on by Clapper and Alexander!
Tue Feb 4, 2014, 08:55 PM
Feb 2014

Frankly, I do not agree with your logic on that point at all, Donald.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
13. J Edgar Hoover with Supercomputers
Tue Feb 4, 2014, 09:06 PM
Feb 2014

is how Ray McGovern puts it.

I know everything.
Everything you do.
Everywhere you go,
Everyone you know.

is how Jim Morrison put it.

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