is a "false impression", then please show it so we can all put this to sleep.

A conviction requires proof the crime occurred, not that one must prove it didn't. .

it's now about the court of public opinion, so yes, it does work because in the court of public opinion the burden of proof is on the accused.

"The court of public opinion" = worthless indicator of anything/rumor/gossip

not so sure it is too late. .seems priests have been tried decades later.

Then there is the issue of the impossibility of proving a negative.

Dylan. Based on what I know about reports of childhood sexual abuse she either was abused, or she truly believes that she was abused by a trusted adult. In either case the pain she feels is real.

If, in fact, she is purposefully misrepresenting what took place (and no matter what you may have read on this board, such instances, although exceedingly rare, do exist) then that's an entirely different Hell she will have to deal with.

You have to really be invested in the "Mia is a woman scorned, and capable of total evil" scenario in order to do that.
That she would believe her own child and act to protect her never enters into it for many here. They are rendering Dylan invisible in all this.

we would have to believe that Mia hates Woody more than she loves her children to perpetuate something like that. And she'd have to coerce or force her 7 year old child to lie... or brainwash her into believing this. And as that child grew older, she'd be willing to perpetuate this story.

THAT is all so unbelievable to me.

This family makes me very sad, though. So much pain.

If Woody loved his adopted daughter, he'd try to handle this privately. No attacking her mother or her. We will see if and when he responds.

they hold her accountable for stuff like, Previn's failed marriage (all five? ) having too many kids- but not Woody added the last three.
It is kind of obvious she has become a mythical she devil, and no man that go nears her can be held accountable for his own actions. At least not on DU they aren't. It's crazy.

the story of their family is so filled with pain and horror, though. A lot of dysfunction has happened in their lives. I truly hope that Dylan finds peace.

of a plan like this as a way to "protect" their family. Some parents simply cannot understand that the "needs of the child" are separate and distinct from their own....so, if the parent needs vengeance, then of course...the child must need it, too. The parent's needs are all-consuming. This is baffling, and horrible to watch in action.

I can't imagine feeling that way. As a mother, I want to teach my child to be strong, but I'd want to protect her from this type of clusterf*ck. I hope that both Mia and Woody do right by Dylan. As fascinating as I find this story, it makes me sad that it's all playing out so publicly. So much pain in that family.

quiet after losing the custody case---which I suppose is all he can do. If Dylan truly thinks he hurt her, then him trying to invade her life would only cause her more pain.

But Mia and Ronan---here's a piece on the publicity angle...

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/03/woody-allen-dylan-farrow-abuse-allegations#start-of-comments

thought so little of her Mom she was able to betray her in the cruelest way possible, rubbing her nose in it. Lots of candidates for who was the biggest narcissist in that family. That Mia made up the whole story, is speculation of narcisstic behavior, the other stuff actually happened.

as mentally retarded, I'm not really surprised that they didn't have a great relationship. I'm not making a moral judgment on the actions Soon Yi undertook...because frankly, I don't care who someone sleeps with, as long as they are all consenting adults....

Here's a great piece on the connection between the resurfacing of the allegations and publicity....a very cynical take, but one that was an interesting read.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/03/woody-allen-dylan-farrow-abuse-allegations#start-of-comments


As for Woody...well, yes....of course he's a narcissist. Why else do you think Farrow was attracted to him?

up thing to do (at any age)-it is undeniably a big betrayal on both her and Woody's part. Mybe its just me, but I'd rather be slapped than have that person sneak around and fuck my husband, YMMV. Why do we not discuss Woody beating Ronan in all of this? I think it's pretty much one documented slapping around on each their parts. You can write it off when it's Woody pissed off Ronan bit his leg, but not Mia reacting to Soon Yi's bragging about fucking her husband? A bite from a little child is rougher to handle than a defiant admission of betrayal?

want to be in the same position as Mia with regards to Soon Yi, I also would not have passed off Sinatra's child as Allen's.

except Dylan. She's is the aggrieved party. She should be able to work this out in any way she would like. If woody is innocent and cares about his daughter, he should privately try to work out some sort of therapy that he can complete with her. Mia should also stop taking digs at Woody on twitter and allow Dylan, a grown woman, to handle this as she sees proper.

I mean, molesters never accost their victims alone or anything.

Since they all know for a fact what happened. It's amazing they all managed to fit in the same room.

Or perhaps, not inclined to take Woody Allen's side purely on the basis of liking his movies.

So he's guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, right?

Obviously what's being said is that Moses doesn't know what happened while not in his presence, obviously.

they claim because they were being pressured to back up the story.

It's a totally dysfunctional family and if they have issues they best way to handle them would be in private, not on Twitter.

Mia came from a pretty dysfunctional family herself, her brother was just sentenced to ten years in jail, he was facing 50 but made a deal, for molesting two children this week.

My feeling is unless you are a saint, don't go airing your dirty laundry in public. The skeletons are likely to come marching out of the closet as is happening now in this case. And all this is likely to cause MORE harm to the woman who either was, or believes she was, abused.

Some have said they think it's relevant that Allen was paying them, but he would not have had less control over their employment than Farrow. They were making $40K in 1992 dollars and quit rather than side with Farrow.

The more you learn about Farrow, the less there is to like. She even hired shitbag lawyer, Alan Dershowitz to try to extort "$5-8 million" from Allen.
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/04/16/nyregion/dershowitz-says-farrow-involved-him.html

so maybe he does know.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024449341#post91

as character witnesses....

Seems that the only two likely to know the absolute truth are the accuser and the accused...

I'm the first to admit not knowing and I believe it is quite conceivable that other siblings and even Mia may not have first hand knowledge/facts, but I'm even less swayed by people like Barbara Walters and that ilck intent on bolstering Allen.

It is sad, though, if true--in terms of the long term harm to that daughter, even now as she speaks out. Imagine having celebrities that have no way of knowing the truth, claiming that they do and that by extension, "you" are lying.

were- anywhere from 5-15 minutes. That was never in dispute. So, was he coached to tell lies? Or did he just make this story up himself?

Funny stuff: I wonder if you even know you are doing it?

for confirming it. But his story still doesn't match anyone else's at all.

that is what I find ridiculous.

So he made it all up, he claims he was a victim of 'brainwashing' which is why he finally left the 'family'. Nothing to do with Allen, his own relationship with his mother. Then he eventually contacted his father who he had been alienated from which caused him, as a child, great anguish as he loved his father. How easily you dismiss yet another victim of all of this.

How do you choose which victim is the most deserving of sympathy? He too was child when all this happened. How did all of this effect that little boy? Especially if he knew none of it was true but was afraid to say so?

If Mia Farrow cared about her daughter she should have tried to resolve all of this OUT of the public eye. She should have expected that her daughter would be put through hell if she went public. She used Twitter of all places. to drag all this up again and put her daughter in an untenable position.

She seems to like stirring things up. Like claiming that Allen's son was never his son at all. Why didn't she tell him that during the custody fight? And is she lying now, or was she lying when she led him to believe it was his son?

Has she offered any sympathy to the children who were abused by her brother, sentenced yesterday to ten years in jail for abusing two children over a number of years. The same brother who excoriated Allen during the period of the allegations?

up crazy stories that other people are victims instead? What a crock.
Moses is the bigger victim? HA HA HA.
Okay, LOL, sure.....

Gee, could Allen having an affair with his step-daughter be any indication of what was wrong?

By the way, one of my brothers has been in jail. That does not reflect on me one iota.

Last edited Thu Feb 6, 2014, 04:33 AM - Edit history (1)

"[Dylan] looked forward to seeing [Allen] when he would visit," he said. "She never hid from him until our mother succeeded in creating the atmosphere of fear and hate towards him. The day in question, there were six or seven of us in the house. We were all in public rooms and no one, not my father or sister, was off in any private spaces. My mother was conveniently out shopping. I don't know if my sister really believes she was molested or is trying to please her mother. Pleasing my mother was very powerful motivation because to be on her wrong side was horrible."

Moses added that his home with Mia Farrow at the helm was never a happy one. and in fact, she was the abusive one.

"From an early age, my mother demanded obedience and I was often hit as a child," he added. "She went into unbridled rages if we angered her, which was intimidating at the very least and often horrifying, leaving us not knowing what she would do."

He even said that distancing himself from his mother "has led to a positive reunion with my father."

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/dylan-farrows-brother-moses-mia-farrow-woody-allen/story?id=22377303

I assume that in order to practice as a family therapist, Moses studied the dynamics of the family.

Here is confirmation of Moses' Masters in marriage family therapy:

hat leaves Moses, who is 24 and who just received his master's degree in — what else —marriage family therapy from the University of Connecticut. He's also married "to a great girl" who just graduated from college, Farrow said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2003/08/07/mia-and-woody-son-becomes-marriage-counselor/

Now, I was not there when the events happened or didn't happen that resulted in the accusations about child molestation.

But this is interesting:

Mia named one of her children after the judge who granted her custody in the custody cases: Gabriel Wilk is Farrow's child and was named after Elliot Wilk, Judge Elliot Wilk.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2003/08/07/mia-and-woody-son-becomes-marriage-counselor/

I find that bizarre, very bizarre. Naming your child after the judge in your custody case or naming your child after the judge in your divorce case?????

I draw no conclusions, but I advise everyone to investigate the facts and reconsider any conclusions they may have drawn. Moses has a Masters in marriage and family therapy. That gives him some credibility although certainly Dylan or Malone and Mia also have credibility. Hard to say.

Maybe he has recovered memories of happy days free from abuse. The other children seem to be sticking by Dylan. Only he, Woody, and Woody's daughter figure bride seem to think there was no abuse. I think they may have been brainwashed.

(14 at the time), I wonder how you know what the other children think.

For the record, 6 of Farrow's children were adopted after her split with Allen; one of them is dead and what the others think is entirely a function of their being Farrow's children and only Farrow's children. They have never had any relationship with Allen.

Six of the others were Andre Previn's children, the oldest 4 were 18 - 23 at the time of the incident and out of the house at college or elsewhere; the fifth is dead and the 6th is Soon-Yi.

So basically Woody's three are the only ones who matter.

The fact that he married one of his defenders and the other one just recently decided to speak out is telling.
Moses seems to be the only one changing stories or loyalties. Explain the sudden change in who he supports and I might think about changing my mind.

If he said that at the time in an afidavit the I'd believe him now. You just posted what someone else said he said.

This same nanny was also subpoenaed and I think it's reasonable to assume she repeated it under oath, again under the threat of a perjury conviction. This is a person who says she quit rather than lie for Mia. I've seen nothing to suggest Moses didn't say this and that's certainly what he's still saying today. What makes you so sure he didn't say it?

I just don't believe him. I believe the victim. The same or worse happened to me and I can't imagine how I'd feel if my sister waited 20 years and then ran around saying I had been brain washed.
The way she told the story and the way I remember what hapoened to me are very similar. That's why I believe her. And because what happened to me took only five minutes, and nobody knew until I told them. He wasn't with her every second of the day.

Two nannies say they don't believe it happened. Both say Farrow tried to compel them to lie. One of those two testified that a 3rd nanny confided to her that Farrow compelled her to lie. The team of official investigators say they don't believe it happened. Allen obviously believes it didn't happen. Soon Yi obviously believes it didn't happen. Many of their acquaintances don't believe it happened. Can anyone really blame Moses for not believing it happened, even if it did? Dylan also claims Farrow wasn't physically abusive to the kids when at least 3 different people give first hand accounts which contradict this.

Look at it this way. When a child is abused the abuser does it in private. It's a secret. They never tell anyone that they molested a child. With all of the children being abused, I automatically believe the children.
The guy who did that horrible stuff to me lied about it also. All of his family defended him, called me a liar and started behaving in a threatening manner. He was later convicted of raping another child and has since been back and forth to jail over the years eventually dying of AIDS.

With my history, it's my duty to believe the child. Not her brother. Not her dad's friends. Not her nanny. Her. Or him. Adults lie and cover up for each other. They don't want to think of their friend or family member as a raper.

How many people have gotten away with things that they did just because it can't be proved? Many.
This is why we are scared to come forward about sexual abuse. Nobody believes us anyway, we are not valued.

I do believe one needs to look into what motivations people have to lie and in the case of victims and perpetrators the perpetrators definitely have a stronger motive to lie with no more information than that. So all things being equal, one should give more credibility to someone who claims to be a victim, but that doesn't mean one has to ignore all other evidence. Allen clearly has a motive to lie, but many other people who have offered evidence don't. Farrow certainly has a motive to lie as well, and the idea that she could have manipulated Dylan is not without merit. In fact that's exactly what the official investigators found. Another thing that's significant is child molesters quite often molest other children which you point out. Allen has never been so much as accused of molesting any other children before or since and the man is nearly in his 80's. That doesn't mean he didn't do it, but it is another piece to the puzzle.

We can't know for sure, but it's best to err on the side of caution. I wouldn't go stand in front of his house protesting, but I also wouldn't ask him to babysit my daughters.

and knowledge of this situation entrusted him with two children who so far appear to be doing fine.

I have more knowlege and expertise about my children than anyone else. My child is non verbal. She would not be able to tell me anything.
Judges allow fathers who molested their daughters to get vistitation. Judges allow men who raped the woman, thereby creating a child with them to have vistitation and parental rights. I don't care what other people entrusted him with. I spoke for myself.
Money will buy you plenty of support. He has plenty of money.

Why do you care that I wouldn't let him babysit my kids? That doesn't make sense. Let him watch your daughters, if you want.

I stated a fact to demonstrate that this has been judged not to be the case.

I would not let anyone take care of my children either, but that has nothing to do with Allen, I doubt he would be interested.

My brother's daughter was a special needs child and was never out of their sight until her death. That too has nothing to do with Allen or this situation.

Not everything is about our personal lives or choices. The topic is about an accusation that if not true has destroyed reputations and had a horrible effect on all the other children involved. It was judged to be not true. A mother who truly cares about her daughter, who claimed she did not want to put the child through the stress of publicity, would not then go out and talk to the media knowing as she must, what a circus this would create. And then to do it again two decades later.

I don't know these people at all, but as an observer, the whole family appears to need therapy and that would be better done in private for the benefit of all involved, in my judgement.

I stay at home with my kids in part because I don't trust other people to care for them as I would. Also because I have been harmed as a child and I said I would never let it happen to my kids. I don't put anything past anyone. Not even my own family.

I agree that therapy for the whole family is in order.

What I was saying was I wouldn't do a public protest outside of his home based on some past unproven allegation, whether I believe them or not. Privately though, if I knew him, I would not leave my child at his home without me there. Just to be on the safe side. I think you would do the same, consciously or unconsciously.

Privately I think that anyone with children should not leave their children with anyone, man or woman, who has been accused of child molestation. Just in case the allegations are true, because you never know. Better to err on the side of caution.

The children's nanny of 7 years testified in 1993:

Thompson added that on one occasion almost immediately after the alleged incident, Moses, 14, another child Allen and Farrow adopted, indicated doubts about what, if anything, had taken place.

"Moses came over to me and said that he believes that Ms. Farrow had made up the accusation that was being said by Dylan," Thompson said in an affidavit.

http://articles.latimes.com/1993-02-02/news/mn-952_1_woody-allen


Why is it telling that Moses "suddenly" decided to speak out just as his sister "suddenly" decided to publicize the whole mess again after 21 years? Why is that so fucking "telling"?

Like those who think a 40 year old joke about a love nest is "telling," it's only "telling" if you've already made up your mind that Woody Allen molested his 7 year old daughter.

Now, years later, she's telling the same story and he's suddenly against her.

He's changed, she hasn't. That's very telling.

to the investigation, his sister at times denied anything happened, at other times, changed her story. As a 14 yr old whose mother was supremely angry at his father was in a very difficult position. It also may be that the spoke to the police investigators, telling then what he told the nanny. Another reason why the prosecutors did not prosecute the case. They had nannies, possibly the brother, and the child herself changing her story, a tape that was edited, done over several days. Not much to go on.

It's a very sad, dysfunctional family and it sure won't help anyone to air all this dirty laundry in public. One thing I do understand, that anger Mia Farrow probably felt when she learned her daughter and Allen were involved. Apparently she has not recovered. She came from a very dysfunctional family herself. And this week her own brother received a ten year jail sentence for abusing two children. He was facing fifty years but made a deal. I don't know if he is guilty or not, he denies the charges, but the whole family is in need of therapy.

You ask the rest of your children if he did it to them. Otherwise you're a bad parent. Of course she believed her daughter when she said she was touched innapproriately.

at the trial, which stated that Moses thought Allen should kill himself.

Is that enough "support" for you?

You're judging a 14 year old. Were your parents ever divorced?

Even in the best of divorces, it's traumatic.

I was raped as a child and I choose to believe the child like my mother believed me. Are you judging me for that? It seems like it. Victims usually believe the stories of other victims. Have you ever been raped as a child? If so, would you be more likely or less likely to believe the child who says sage was molested? I'd really like to know.

know about, I can't help you.

And I don't chose to converse with you further.

they could be Asian versions of the MLK kids

Allen must be innocent.

the other children. More so than Ronan, who was 5 at the time.

"My mother drummed it into me to hate my father for tearing apart the family and sexually molesting my sister," Moses, 36, tells PEOPLE in the magazine's new issue. "And I hated him for her for years. I see now that this was a vengeful way to pay him back for falling in love with Soon-Yi."

"Of course Woody did not molest my sister," says Moses, who is estranged from Farrow and many of his siblings and is close to Allen and Soon-Yi. "She loved him and looked forward to seeing him when he would visit. She never hid from him until our mother succeeded in creating the atmosphere of fear and hate towards him.

after Allen & Farrow split, and 4 of Previn's 6 were out of the house at college and elsewhere, one died and the other is Soon Yi.

http://election.democraticunderground.com/10024449341#post22

So the only ones who know for certain is Woody Allen and Dylan, who the investigators concluded either made up the story with coaching by her mom or had the idea implanted by her mom.
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/05/04/nyregion/doctor-cites-inconsistencies-in-dylan-farrow-s-statements.html

You also have two nannies, Soon Yi, and now Moses who were there and old enough to know what was going on, all giving consistent stories that say Allen wasn't even alone with Dylan.

10 minutes, which he claimed wasn't enough time. Also, Farrow's nanny had a vested interest in underestimating how long Dylan was alone with Woody, because she was never supposed to be alone with him at all.

Casey Pascal also employed a babysitter who was there that day, and she was the one who found him with his face in Dylan's lap.

Another nanny who wasn't there that day said Moses told her at the time he thought Mia was lying.

If vested interest means anything, Mia's lawyer Alan Dershowitz (a shitbag shyster if there ever was one), told Allen if he gave her $5 million all the allegations would go away.

and busy with his own life.

Woody Allen listened quietly from the witness stand yesterday as Mia Farrow's lawyer read an angry and passionate letter from the couple's son, Moses, in which the teen-ager said he no longer considered Mr. Allen his father and hoped that he would kill himself.

"You have done a horrible, unforgivable, needy, ugly, stupid thing," Moses A. Farrow, now 15, wrote, referring to the affair between Mr. Allen and Soon-Yi Farrow Previn, the boy's older sister. "I hope you get so humiliated you commit suicide."

Spectators packed into the dark wood-paneled courtroom listened intently as the letter was read by Ms. Farrow's lawyer, Eleanor B. Alter, to counter Mr. Allen's assertions that he had been a good father to the young man. Outside the courtroom, bailiffs held off a handful of people crowded out of the few available seats by an army of reporters.

"Mom is a great mother and she always finds the time and patience to play with us. All you did is spoil the little ones, Dylan and Satchel," Ms. Alter read. "Everyone knows not to have an affair with your son's sister, including that sister, but you have a special way to get that sister to think that that is O.K."

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/03/24/nyregion/a-son-s-anguished-letter-rivets-woody-allen-hearing.html

Wouldn't Woody have expected Moses, if he saw this, to tell Mia?

If course Woody wouldn't do it in front of Moses or anyone else, except by accident.

apparently having oral sex with a 7 year old.

Just a short time after his girlfriend found the naked pictures he took of her adopted daughter.

Then, not satisfied with oral sex in the TV room, he takes her to the attic for more oral sex -- all in the space of 15 minutes.


He choses to molest his own adopted 7 year old daughter for the first time just weeks after Farrow has found his naked pictures of her adopted 17 year old daughter, in Farrow's house, knowing Farrow now hates him, knowing his other children (Satchel/Ronan and Moses) are in the house, plus Farrow's friend, plus assorted nannies and babysitters, some of whom are no doubt assigned to watch his every move.

Yet he leaves the TV room door open because he just can't control his mad lust for a 7 year old -- even though he's shown no interest in toddlers before or since.

Because Allen is obviously mentally defective.

Dylan (who now has another name) has never before spoken publicly of what she remembers about Allen and how his behavior back then has tormented her. She refuses ever to say his name. “There’s a lot I don’t remember, but what happened in the attic I remember. I remember what I was wearing and what I wasn’t wearing.” I asked her if what she had said happened in the attic happened more than once.

“That was isolated. The rest was just everyday weirdness—the weird routine I thought was normal.”

You've read the accounts in Vanity Fair, so you know that there was a pattern of inappropriate sexual behaviors before that incident occurred. I blame Mia for not listening to her mother and sister and others when they criticized Woody's behavior. It took what he did with Soon-Yi to wake her up. If he hadn't taken up with Soon-Yi, Mia would probably have let it go on indefinitely.

She appears to have been an enabler.

inappropriate behaviors I've seen noted (which are basically the same 3 or 4 reiterated in every article) were reported by Mia, her sister and her mother.

Here's the thing: Every public defense of Allen is also an implied accusation that Dylan is either lying intentionally or delusional. Does Woody Allen really need that?

the other parties.

If Allen didn't molest Dylan, is he supposed to remain silent while he's smeared with about the worst thing he can be accused of?

That is a different issue.

But, no, I would not say anything publicly if I I were in her father's shoes. Whether she is lying deliberately or was brainwashed or if it is true, wouldn't matter to me. Well, scratch that. If it were true, defending myself would be heinous. But you know what I mean.

No matter what happened, just on the basis of what we know for certain, she's fragile. This is not a battle that should be fought in media. I'd do anything to make sure she had the help she needed and I would shut up in public. Besides, he already defended himself 20 years ago and has added nothing new anyway.

Neither do all the other children who support Dylan. No one does, maybe not even Dylan. Woody Allen is the only one who knows and he would do the same thing as he's done, whether he is guilty or not.

Dylan behaved before and after the Soon-Yi incident.

And FYI, according to Dylan, the only molestation that happened was the molestation on that particular day, after the Soon-Yi pictures were found and while Mia was out but her childhood friend Casey Pascal + Pascal's babysitter were with the children.

Dylan (who now has another name) has never before spoken publicly of what she remembers about Allen and how his behavior back then has tormented her. She refuses ever to say his name. “There’s a lot I don’t remember, but what happened in the attic I remember. I remember what I was wearing and what I wasn’t wearing.” I asked her if what she had said happened in the attic happened more than once. “That was isolated. The rest was just everyday weirdness—the weird routine I thought was normal.”

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2013/11/mia-farrow-frank-sinatra-ronan-farrow

Pascal being the person who set the whole molestation train rolling by telling Farrow that her babysitter had seen Allen with his head in Dylan's lap in the TV room, through an open door. Not a very careful molester. Apparently before or after they were in the attic during the "15 minute gap".

So this really boggles the imagination. Allen chose to start molesting his adopted 7 year old daughter at Farrow's house, after Farrow had found his naked pictures of her 17 year old daughter at his house and now hates his guts -- with his other children on the property and various nannies and babysitters wandering around -- but he doesn't even close or lock the door while he's doing it.

And Moses apparently had the opposite view several years ago. I don't know what your point is. If you're contradicting my statement that no one can possibly know for certain except Woody Allen, you're mistaken. That is the fact of the matter and all else is speculation, except that we do know that Woody did have sexual feelings for Soon Yi, a girl he helped raise since she was 8 and he was 42. I don't think the fact that there was no marriage certificate mattered to a little girl. He functioned in her life as a father figure all along.

apparently the only one still living at home at the time was Soon-Yi and possibly the next two oldest girls, 18 and 19 in 1992 -- one of whom is dead.

Moses (14), Dylan (7) and Ronan (5) were the only kids under 18 still in the home in 1992 and all were Allen's children (adoptive or natural -- supposedly).

According to both Soon-Yi and Mia Farrow, he didn't function as a father figure except peripherally; it was one of Farrow's complaints that Allen basically ignored most of her children.

I think Allen shows himself morally defective by getting sexually involved with his girlfriend's adopted daughter, but I don't see that it makes him more likely to have molested his own adopted SEVEN YEAR OLD daughter.

As for Moses having different views *years* ago, I had different views of my parents when I was 14 than I do now; I think most people do.

Children see their parents one-dimensionally when they're young; they take a more balanced view as they age and gain life experience.

The fact that you are trying so hard to contradict an accurate statement of fact really makes me wonder.

how his parents behaved toward him before and after the Soon-Yi incident, and he does know how they behaved to the other kids, and how the other kids acted before and after.

"Of course Woody did not molest my sister," he told People. "She loved him and looked forward to seeing him when he would visit."

"She never hid from him until our mother succeeded in creating the atmosphere of fear and hate towards him."

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/moses-farrow-speaks-mother-mia-farrow-sister-dylan-article-1.1602846

Allen was terrible for sleeping with Soon Yi and Allen should kill himself.

Maybe it was coerced, maybe not -- he said in his People interview he hated Allen for years.

Who knows?

The entire family seems royally dysfunctional.

Speaking of royally dysfunctional:

Especially given that she would get physically abusive if they showed any dissent. Keep in mind also that Allen never lived with them, so I can't imagine Allen was nearly as close to the children as Mia. It would have been quite simple for her to manipulate them against Allen.

He may have hated Allen and still says to this day at one time he did, but his story about whether or not Mia was lying is the same today as it was then.

interesting that both Dylan and Satchel's names were changed during the same period -- and not to the ones they have now. Interesting because it messes with kids' sense of identity.

as I see on this board.

The thread title is very clear as to the subject of the thread. Why did you click on it?

to say the least.

Most molesters do it in secret for obvious reasons.

She knows, and there is at least one witness that confirms Dylan's version of events. What her brother thinks is completely irrelevant. He is not the victim. You've never heard of members of a family covering up for pedophiles? It happens all the time. In fact, I would wager a number of survivors here have family members who refused to believe them. Child abuse and rape are so common precisely because people disbelieve, blame, and shame victims. If someone has their purse robbed, people don't start insisting it never happened. What is it about accused sexual predators that makes so many here elevate them to a status above every other accused, above politicians who people don't get the benefit of the doubt, and most importantly above victims? This week I have learned exactly why child sexual assault and adult rape are so common in this country.

the "attic" while Dylan was supposedly lying face down playing with a train with her pants off while Allen "sexually assaulted" her.

Before you answer, you should know: when I was seven years old, Woody Allen took me by the hand and led me into a dim, closet-like attic on the second floor of our house. He told me to lay on my stomach and play with my brother’s electric train set. Then he sexually assaulted me. He talked to me while he did it, whispering that I was a good girl, that this was our secret, promising that we’d go to Paris and I’d be a star in his movies. I remember staring at that toy train, focusing on it as it traveled in its circle around the attic. To this day, I find it difficult to look at toy trains.

On the afternoon of Aug. 4, 1992, Alison Stickland, a baby sitter, was walking by the television room in Mia Farrow's summer home in Connecticut when, she testified yesterday, she looked in and noticed something strange.

There, sitting silently on the sofa, she said, was 7-year-old Dylan Farrow. The little girl, she said, was wearing a white dress and a blank expression. And kneeling before her in a way that bothered Ms. Stickland, she said, was the girl's father, Woody Allen.

"I got to the doorway, and Mr. Allen was on his knees in front of Dylan, with his head in her lap," said Ms. Stickland, a baby sitter for the children of one of Ms. Farrow's oldest friends, in testimony in State Supreme Court in Manhattan. She said that his face was turned toward Dylan's body. A phone call from her employer, Casey Pascal, to Ms. Farrow the next morning, telling her what the baby sitter had said, was a factor in Ms. Farrow's decisions to question Dylan and eventually accuse Mr. Allen of sexually abusing the girl on that Tuesday in August.

Ms. Farrow has testified in the custody trial that Dylan told her that on that day, Mr. Allen had taken her into the attic and abused her.

by Woody Allen in your post above.
The same lost 15 minutes? How could you possibly know that. A babysitter recounted Woody Allen taking the child up into the attic.

Is your suggestion that if there are not eye witnesses accounts to a rape there should be no conviction? Is that really what you think?

The 15 minutes comes from the reportage of Maureen Orth (another friend of Farrow's):

Maureen Orth cites witness accounts from two babysitters that corroborates the story from Dylan's side that on the day of the molestation, both Allen and his adopted daughter disappeared for around 15 minutes, and then reappeared, with Dylan missing her underwear.

http://jezebel.com/what-we-should-talk-about-when-we-talk-about-the-dylan-1514959143


The campaign began in the November issue of Vanity Fair in a profile of Mia Farrow by Maureen Orth, a long-time friend (Orth is the widow of NBC's Tim Russert), in which Farrow offered the headline grabber that Frank Sinatra, rather than Woody Allen, might be Ronan's father.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/03/woody-allen-dylan-farrow-abuse-allegations

It talks about the Yale-New Haven hospital investigators without ever mentioning that it was the prosecutor who involved them in the investigation.

Then it says, "It's also worth noting that state psychologists who evaluated Dylan came to a different conclusion than the Yale-New Haven ones." But that tidbit came from the blatantly pro-Mia Vanity Fair piece, and even that piece does not call them "state psychologists" but rather "state investigators." That could simply mean police detectives. And only one "state investigator" was even quoted in the VF piece, and the reason given for Dylan's account being credible was pretty thin in my opinion: "When a little girl says someone digitally penetrated her... if a child relates pain to the incident at that age, that's credible."

The Jezebel piece gives the impression that Woody Allen's experts came up with one conclusion and the state's experts came up with another conclusion. That's not the case. The Yale-New Haven team were the state's experts.

uses juxtaposition to lead the reader to draw conclusions that aren't necessarily factual, as you've just demonstrated. And that isn't the only example by a long shot.

On Valentine’s Day, Mia sent Woody a picture of her and her children, with a toothpick stuck in each person’s chest. The message: “This is how many hearts you’ve broken in this family.”

I am not sure how effective it will be.

Not following it much but it is certainly possible it happened.

But your original statement was that it wasn't fair to dismiss it, which is not the same thing as saying it didn't happen. I don't know that the Clinton's didn't conspire to kill Vince Foster either, but I'm reasonably sure they didn't and it's fair to dismiss the charges that they did.

Everyone thought Miss America's father was a peach, too.
http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20115294,00.html

Etc., Ad nauseam.

should be saying is that he never saw his sister get molested.

Think about that for a second...

By several accounts, Mia was physically abusive to her children. This is a woman who pals around with a guy that admits to drugging and raping a 13 yr old. She has a child that she almost certainly knows is Frank Sinatra's, but she cuckolds Allen into believing it's his. More than one nanny quits, claiming Farrow wanted them to lie under oath for her. She hires shitbag lawyer, Alan Dershowitz, to try and extort millions from Allen. When faced with information from her own child that Allen allegedly molested her, she films her own testimony from the child over a 2-3 day period rather than going immediately to police during a time soon after she finds out Soon Yi is dating Allen.

the physical abuse and screaming, demeaning small children I find absolutely nauseating - it's soul destroying. I wasn't aware of all of the above, but you can bet your ass that if most parents were faced with even the possibility their child was being molested, they'd have done something pretty drastic about it immediately.

I don't know who to believe, but the whole situation is beyond sad. She sounds like someone who living with her was a nightmare .... if the allegations against Allen are true, he's a horror. Those poor kids.

either by her father or her mother, or both. Dylan claims Farrow wasn't physically abusive, yet at least one of the nannies in a sworn statement corroborated Moses' accounts of physical abuse. Soon Yi also said Farrow was physically abusive to her. It seems strange that Dylan would deny this. Someone who hits their kids around people who aren't family members probably isn't going to have any reservations about doing it in front of other children. It seems unlikely that she didn't know about it.

what's being described here and in other articles I've read. You bet, if she abused them in front of people it was worse when they were alone. I can guarantee that. (Thankfully, my mom has changed a lot, at least with the physical shit ... and I'd defend her to the death too if I thought something was hurting her so I completely understand why Dylan might deny it .... if it happened).

It does make you wonder why some people even want kids when they sure don't deserve them.

Imagine being a prosecutor or judge trying to make sense out of all this craziness.