in them really apologizing; it was obviously no accident for them to have fried chicken, cornbread, and watermelon on the month's menu.

In Africa and brought to the Americas with those enslaved. West African plant breeders were stolen and sold at higher prices in the Americas and brought with them seeds and knowledge. Melons are one of the many great plants among the cultural riches transferred with these people to our continent. Rice, indigo, sorghum, black eyed peas, and many other crops....I am just reading a book about this.

In the part of West Africa that I was a Peace Corps Volunteer in chicken was the most prized meat. Only when someone special was visiting would a chicken be killed for eating. No one ate eggs, because every egg could become a chicken.

So, I am sorry, I do not see what is wrong with celebrating how we all benefited from a crop domesticated and advanced by African plant breeders and farmers. And who kept growing them once in the Americas. And acknowledging a cultural history of considering chicken to be the meat of choice for celebrations is not stereotyping, IMO.

mmm, black eyed peas...

But I can't find collards in India; mustards will have to do.

I'm thinking of making hopping jenny this weekend, but I may add some Indian chilies because, well, that doesn't really need a reason...

watermelon, and nothing at all to do with the stereotypical diet of African American slaves in the South.

Like this was a tribute to Obama's Kenyan roots and nothing to do with stereotyping an African American President.





I can't believe you posted that.

That during Black History Month a celebration of the foods brought to America by Africans might be served? What is racist about that? Seriously, I do not get this. Do people scream when corn and potatoes are served honoring Native American holidays?

Why shouldn't plants domesticated by Africans (that we all enjoy) get to be celebrated?

background. have you seen the cartoons and other racist things said ?

and what you talk about mostly is africa concerning the chicken and that's mostly because they can't afford to eat it regularly. this is common all around the world. many in the US wont eat steak or lobster everyday because they would not be able to afford it . but they would for special occasions or just once in a while.

But then again black history is not limited to slavery.

and brought over to the America's there is an excellent book entitled : " In the Shadow of Slavery" by Judith Carney and Richard Rosomoff that hoes through how these plants got to the America's. "Black Rice" was the most fascinating read.

But you are right, the river fish are big in all of West Africa...but where would a school cafeteria be able to get such fish? Melons are out of season, so it probably was a stretch to buy those imported from S. America.

this entire group of wonderful plants is to be considered a racist choice?

Seriously, I am frustrated that food brought here by Africans is considered a racist choice.

Are we to act as though they brought no important plants with them, or animals? That would be really racist imo.

to be a good idea. At all. First, it never would occur to me. Secondly, if I saw it I would immediately think "stereotyping" at best, and racist at worst. Maybe some uneducated and/or insensitive soul was behind it, or possibly naive- but really? I am still shaking my head.

Is there any food it would be "OK" for the cafeteria to cook for black history month?

Seriously, I'm trying to think of a traditional African American dish that was not stigmatized in the past based on the fact that black people ate it.

If food is just not an OK place to go, that's an argument I guess...

and I actually eat 'black food' on Martin Luther King day to celebrate my heritage. My family has been in the North for so long we don't eat black eyed peas, etc. anymore. I don't even know how to make chitterlings. But on MLK I do my best to cook something ethnic for all my kids.

Why wouldn't traditionally southern food, that was grown in the south BECAUSE Africans both domesticated the plants and brought them to the Americas be appropriate for a Black History Month?

I do not get this at all.

Or is this just not something cooks are supposed to be involved in?

(That said, having grown up a poor Southern white, I just think of that as "food"...)

Sorghum? Chickory coffee? Chitterlings? Is that whole culinary tradition out of bounds?

Southerners? And exactly what is it that makes us associate Southern food with African Americans?

Any reason why African American history month means we have to feed kids in Northern California as though they are slaves?

Jaysus!


ETA: To answer your question: If the meal had been part of a lesson on slavery, that would have been different. Ditto if they were given only traditional African foods or foods that had originated in Africa. But they went to a stereotype based on slavery.

ie, the meat and not the offal.

Slaves' diets were largely legumes, greens, corn, and river fish. (At least in the deep south.) Chicken or hog offal would have been a rare treat.

This was a selection of foods associated (more or less accurately) with African American history, which included fried chicken and watermelon and a lot of other things. This was not the school shoving chicken and watermelons on students' trays.

Reply numbers do not appear until you load the post. I'll look, though.

Which post were you thinking of?

consider 'Soul food' is really just Southern food that list would include-black eyed peas, greens, chess or egg pie, grits, corn bread the real stuff not jiffy mix

I say as a Northerner who learned long ago during the Carter administration

That is, nearly all of "Southern" cuisine was adopted by white cooks from African American Cuisine.

I have a lot of cookbooks, including one that supposedly were the recipes of a slave and have watched a ton of food/cooking shows that included food history segments, including one by a knowledgeable African American woman whose name sadly is not coming to mind right now.

I know, for example, that rice became a Southern crop because of the slave trade and not because it originated in the Carolinas. I also know that Southern food is a hybrid and chitterlin's are eating "low on the hog" because that is what slaves were forced to do. On the other hand, their owners ate high on the hog. I have even served Hoppin' John on several New Year's Days.

I am not saying I know tons about it, but I get it enough not to be that confused.

But none of the above has a thing to do with this thread.

Fried chicken and corn bread were not foods or preparations brought over from Africa. And I would bet my last dollar, last cent, that watermelon was not served those kids because the school's cooks knew the plant originated in Africa.

The school apologized. Why do we have to keep defending it?

I just looked at your post again. To clarify, when I wrote that the meal was about Southerners, I meant ALL people of the South, all colors and origins. What did you mean?

African American cuisine includes plenty of ingredients that were not native to Africa.

I keep coming back to my question: what would be it OK for the cafeteria to cook? Should it not participate in black history month at all, because of negative stereotypes about African American food?

I also already answered upthread your question about what I thought would have been okay, in an edit to one of my posts. Sorry, don't recall which one.

Tell you what though: if my only choice were serving kids of all colors in Northern California a stereotype relating to slavery to observe black history month, with no spoken or written educational prep, I would not have served the stereotype. African Americans are about a hell of a lot more than a stereotype relating to their association with the Southern slave plantations.

I don't. Did I miss that part of the article you apparently read?

I don't know what the entire menu was, nor whether it was presented as a teaching tool or not. I suspect you don't either.

there would have been this uproar, or that the story would not have noted it, in fairness to the school. And the school might have not apologized, or at least included a reference to the lesson in its apology. So I think it was a lot more likely than not that there was no instruction. In any event, IMO, if it were done sensitively, that's what I think would have made it okay.

Again, the school has apologized. If the school thought nothing were wrong, an apology would have been dishonest, IMO.

Given that, why does it seem so important to you that nothing was wrong with serving a stereotype associated with southern slaves and grinning very black boys eating watermelon as a way of commemorating Black History Month?

I'm willing to bet the apology was in fact dishonest. This is a private school: they're in it for the money, and a controversy doesn't help that.

I'm not somebody who tries to police others' outrage. If people were offended, I'm not interested in trying to convince them not to be.

I do think that food service has a role in education beyond delivering calories, particularly social studies, and that I'm not myself convinced (yet) that this was a bad idea

as in only stuff Black people eat, but some like chitterlings or other pork stuff I wonder, because most African Americans brought over as slaves were Muslim and did not eat pork for the most part albeit for some I'm sure it eat pork or starve

Islam hadn't made it that far Southwest yet. The Great Abduction was mostly animists selling other animists to the British and Dutch and Portuguese, though Islam did quickly and strongly take over once the Abduction had happened (those who try to push African American Islam up to the Great Migration are just wrong) it was never anything closer to a majority.

full discloser here I was married to a Black man for 22 years and in the early days of our marriage taken under wing by a number of elderly Black ladies from down South who taught me (this is a direct quote) "cook right"

also your question about what would be appropriate is good because I fondly remember church dinners most of which had fried chicken, cornbread, and greens among other stuff

(Sorry, technical problem: my reply above lost a couple of sentences when I posted it. )

Point one: I highly respect the honorable Elijah Mohammed. However, he was not an historian.

Think about what "five percenter" means, and you'll get what we're talking about: slightly less than half of the black population of the US. They didn't pull that number out of a hat.

But, yeah, I'm basically agreeing with your later point. If we're just saying that cuisine is of limits, I think that's a shame.

Some of us on this thread, and some of the parents and teachers at the school objected to a stereotype as a way of observing Black History Month.

Actually I can think of several: river fish, legumes, yams (though that approaches stereotype). But we're also talking about schools that still teach that Europeans in 1491 thought the world was flat (particularly puzzling since none of Columbus's voyages addressed the topography of the Earth).

Like I said, I'm not one to police others' offense. If this hurt people it should be changed. That said, as a cook I absolutely love African American cuisine and I hate to see it dismissed as racist.

This was a selection of foods associated (more or less accurately) with African American history, which included fried chicken and watermelon and a lot of other things.

I have worded my posts relatively carefully and have repeatedly explained why it was insensitive at best to serve that very specific meal as a way of observing African American history month. And I have already said in a prior post that no one is dismissing the cuisine. Yet you raise that same silly straw man again in your reply.

You are not an especially dense stupid poster. Surely, you get it by now, what I and other posters on this thread got immediately, what the students in that Northern California school got immediately, what their parents got immediately. What the school itself got after it heard from the parents and students. What I have been explaining in post after post. You've even seen the photo upthread with the watermelons on the White House lawn. And why none of this has absolutely nothing in the world to do with you or anyone else giving up any beloved cuisine, ffs.

So I must conclude that something more is going on than meets the eye. Therefore, I am not going to answer you seriously anymore. Probably should have stopped after my second reply anyway.

http://blackcincinnati.blogspot.com/2009/02/obama-watermelons-and-monkeys.html

Sorry. I get stuck in my own privilege sometimes. I'll do better next time.

And they are so rare on message boards, too. I am impressed. I accept gratefully. If I posted anything crappy before I saw your apology, I apologize for that, too. Take care.

I'm normally more or less aware of my privilege but I wasn't here, and you got through my blind spot, even though that isn't your job. Thanks.

But, yes, two apologies within roughly 24 hours on a message board is special.

I'm normally more or less aware of my privilege but I wasn't here, and you got through my blind spot, even though that isn't your job. Thanks.

Very nicely said. You're welcome. It is my job, though. It's everyone's job. Next time, you'll get through one of my blind spots.

but I loved both sets of your wedding pictures the ones from Mumbai were especially lovely

but see comment #28 for my take on this

stereotype, at the very least.

The East may have a lot of soul food restaurants up and down the coast, but I have no idea if that is so of Northern California.

plus, I have lots of neighbors who grow organic melons for the Bay Area Market.

We never hear any racist slurs regarding watermelons or any other melons.

I worked with a big melon grower in Southern Texas, he was a white man who together with his wife had adopted an African American baby ( I used to see their son's picture in a frame when I visited their home -he was gone, serving in the Marines). I seriously do not know about this melon business, and I suspect that lots of us in N. California are unaware of this as well.

Ia this some east coast thing?

Those foods are used as crude stereotypes but they are in fact traditional African American foods. As Chris Rock once said regarding this stereotype "if you don't like fried chicken and watermelon there is something wrong with you motherfucker."

out to the African American community and asked for guidance in choosing a menu. Whoever was responsible isn't very bright.

Seriously, school, did you initially believe that was at all appropriate?