Clinton and other Democrats.

He's a POS. Always has been.

He's all about empowerment.

Is more violence always the solution to everything?!

But I do think that children who are bullied need to be allowed to defend themselves. Our public schools and their zero tolerance policies are not letting kids defend themselves.

... being that it's kinda against the law and all that.

A few years of Karate training will fix most bullying situations. This will teach the child self discipline and give then the skills to defend themselves if that is necessary.
The schools are not in favor of any child defending themselves. If there is a physical altercation for any reason all participants are kicked out.
Teachers send bully's caught red handed to the office and most of the time nothing happens. This is sad but true. Then when parents of the picked on child get upset and visit the school to complain the administration will deny the problem and still nothing will happen.
There is a fine line in here that we can use as a teaching opportunity. One always has the right to defend oneself but one also needs to be able to understand when violence is necessary and when it is uncalled for.

the topic of bullying comes up here.

It's victim blaming, and it sucks.

NRA members cheer wildly.

when such attitudes are puzzled over in history books.

nt.

on the level of Ted Nugent.

I figure the Viet Nam war had something to do with the explosion of male suicide in the 60's and 70's, but I'm at a loss to know what explains the decrease from about 1995.

and you see a lot of it in older folks is serious economic stresses. what is up with 1994? that is a bizarre little blip.
good to see it plummet though. sad to contemplate all those young lives wasted.

and I don't get why it's been going down so rapidly- but it's great. maybe wider social acceptance, less isolation for many, via the internet?

regarding having children defend themselves in school in the R Lee Ermy thread vs. your attitude in the bullied gay teen thread?

Can we say cognitive dissonance? Or is it knee jerk reactions? Gay teen = good, republican = bad.

R Lee Ermy Thread

11. This knuckle-dragging mindset is obsolete. I look forward to the day when such attitudes are puzzled over in history books.

Rex
18. +10000000000000000000000000000000

Rex
17. Of course, because HE was bullied - he is right and has the answer!


Bullied Gay Teen Thread

Rex
19. Fuck the school...a hero stepped up and did the right thing. SO fucking easy to stand in the crowd and watch some helpless person get beat down by assholes. So hard to step up and do the right thing!

HERO.

Or are you completely ignoring that this is R Lee Rermy's point in order to distort those of DUers and paint a false dichotomy?

And anyone can say they were bullied, the other outcome was someone standing up to a bully for no apparent reason. But I do appreciate the time you put into your vast theory of assumptions! Sad.

Or do you agree that suspending the teen that stood up to the bully was correct?

He's commenting on the fact that defending yourself is punished the same as being the aggressor. Yea I would call the neutered.

You are aware that neutered doesnt just mean having the testicles removed from your pet? He's not actually saying that these boys have been surgically altered....

neutered
1.
castrate or spay (a domestic animal).
"a neutered tomcat"
synonyms: sterilize, castrate, spay, geld, fix, desex, alter, doctor;
render ineffective; deprive of vigor or force.
"disarmament negotiations that will neuter their military power"

Yea I think the second definition fits. His language is "colorful" but apt.

I like how you've ignored your own contradiction in the same day. Have a swell day.

and violence really does not work anyway.

Tough hombres really irk me, since we should be looking at breaking the cycle, not making sure it continues.

the bullies do. In fact, bullies are coddled and protected, starting in school and continuing throughout life.

You see, I was bullied, relentlessly as a kid. I ignored them, as recommended. I walked away, as recommended. I fought back, I was almost expelled. This was way before zero tolerance policies and in another country, so this is not unfamiliar territory to me

So try that somewhere else.

It only stopped when I changed schools, because well, shit schools enable the bullies.

If that teen went to school officials and the BULLIES faced the music, that would change, but schools rarely confront the bullies. They are into blaming victims, ALWAYS. And that extends into adult life as well.

By the way, I am a victim of cyber bullying on this site, and I have complained to the owners no less. The attitude of the owners is exactly the same as school officials, see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil...

So this is a cultural problem, albeit not limited to the United States. And until we, as a society, face to it and make zero tolerance apply to bullies, well it ain't gonna change. So what would I recommend to that kid? For me changing schools worked, and at times that is the only thing that works. It has nothing to do with the teen, but the culture around bullying. And until that culture changes, we will continue to spin this top.

For the record, this is one reason I am so glad I don't have kids. Cause you know what? If they were bullied I would have to protect them, probably with a lawsuit against the school system for enabling the bullies. That seem to be the only thing schools understand

I am sure this is not exactly the explanation you expected.

I see you can identify with bullied kids, unfortunately so was I but not at the level you where. I did the whole ignore the bullies, make jokes back at their expense but nothing seemed to work. That was until we fought and he realized that just because I wasn't willing to fight, didn't mean that I couldn't. I am out of High School ten years now but at the time I was told if I got into a fight with a bully who I had complained about we both would be suspended. Since I realized that the school admins where not out to protect me I handled it off school grounds.

Never had a problem after that day.

I just find it odd as someone who was bullied themselves don't agree with the fact that children have been neutered in this regard. They are told if you fight back or defend yourself from a bully you will be punished just the same. That would make as much sense as imprisoning peoples who's house got burgled for the same amount of time as the burglar.

I think schools should have a higher responsibility in maintaining a safe atmosphere for students to learn and that zero tolerance policies are used by schools so they can shirk that responsibility nor think critically about a situation. The zero tolerance polices are creating problems themselves in schools and until they are abandoned this will only get worse as bullies further learn to exploit a system that almost seems designed to protect the aggressive.

I see it as hiding heads in the collective assess of school admins. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, is the rule here.

I have also found the bullies tend to be the popular kids. Popular kids also tend to have well connected parents in the community, many of whom were bullies (or continue to be bullies) themselves. Why schools fear them.

So my advise to the kid would be to switch schools. To his parents, sue the living daylights out of the school system. That is a fight back that the schools will understand, especially if it happens often. Until then, well, zero tolerance right now is pretty much continue to coddle the bullies and blame the victims. In that we agree. But those policies will ONLY stop when they are sued out of existence.

And unfortunately the victims need to find a way to survive and grow and realize that they are special. Trust me, the scars remain, years later.

And the reaction on this site, is also a classic in the adult world. It is also one of the many reasons I no longer post any of my local award winning journalism. If it is not on CNN it did not happen. But I find it hilarious how people complaint that the media is controlled (and it is) but they continue to shite on local reporters. So the bullies partially won, because of management. It reminded me so much of school.

While I do agree with some of your points such as suing the school I disagree with others.

I believe that having a child move schools allows the bullies to win. They harrased a kid so bad they had to changes schools.

That sends the wrong message to both parties that if you harass someone long enough they will go away and that the kid being bullied is the one at fault and should just go away. I liked my solution better and I still subscribe to the belief some people only repond to force. Be it the force of an administrator suspending the offending student or a firm punch to the nose. In the event that the teachers or principals refuse to protect their students I will always believe its up to that student to defend themselves.

Zero tolerance policies make no sense except from a liability perspective which is only about covering the schools butt, not about the children.

and I was able to thrive FINALLY outside of that environment, and it was toxic.

The only reason I have not left DU, which is JUST AS TOXIC, is that the ignore feature somewhat, and that is debatable, helps.

And no, zero tolerance do not make sense, but they will NOT stop until they are shown to be liable for allowing the environment to exist.

I think when kids are spoiled, and coddled and given the latest video games and systems or whatever they want at the drop of a hat, it can lead to weakness of character, and then they don't know how to deal with bullying or adversity.

If you are strong in yourself, bullies are harmless. They usually won't even attempt to bully kids who seem to have a sense of strength in themselves in the first place.

Cause I can tell you as one who WAS bullied in school, and faces cyber bullying on this site, you are blaming victims and have no shred of either evidence or clue about it.

And as a male. I don't claim to know what other peoples experiences have been, it is one mans opinion. I know this is a touchy subject, and so I am not saying my opinion on this subject is the only correct one.

have fought back, have ignored the bullies, done everything recommended by experts. Nothing, shorts of changing schools, or in this case pretending over fifty people on this site died, works. And I pretend, because they should face the music, but management pretends that they do not have an issue either. So they continue to cyber bully from time to time, at times in swarms

We as a society should stop blaming the victims, and actually punish the perpetrators. I speak this from life experience.

Kids aren't bullied because they're coddled and spoiled.

In fact I'll wager a large bet that bullies are as often as not the ones being coddled and spoiled.

Knows that marines are there to protect those that can not protect themselves...and no it isn't some line in a Tom cruise flick either...

I don't like his word choice but you all have agreed with him, just using different language. I mean look at a thread that is happening right now

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024475852

Its about the teen that was suspended for defending a gay friend. You decry the fact this kid god suspended but are upset when R Lee calls out how your not able to defend yourself in school? Is there some cognitive dissonance in this thread going on? Yea zero tolerance policies that punish the abused the same as the abuser makes perfect sense.

Keep posting stupid memes about children "standing their ground" and ignore the actual message. Children in schools have no voice, and when you take away someone's voice, punish them the same as the people that abuse them, well someone is going to lash out one day violently.

You people sound like children, making jokes about "standing their ground". Yea good job knocking that straw man down. You must be a very intelligent person.

Well, you know what, I was bullied when I was a kid, but I tried diplomatically to get out of the situation. If that didn't work, then I would resort to force, I would pop the guy in the snot locker, drop him down on the deck, and he would think twice before he came and bullied me again."

This was back in the day when you COULD stand up for yourself. It worked. Today I would have been suspended or expelled.

After I told the Vice Pricipal that I was being harassed daily and that if he didn't stop it would end it a fight. I was told that they can't do anything and if we fought I'd get suspended just the same.

Well I decided to handle it off school grounds and never had a problem after that. In fact the bully tried to become friendly with me a few years after that.

I didn't even like the victim, I just hated the injustice and cruelty. Today behavior like that would have gotten me expelled for sure -- with a good number here no doubt cheering that expulsion.

... as we do ridiculing those who offer (even wrongheaded) advice.

Two middle school boys took their lives in my little town last year. That's an attrition rate of 4% of all male 8th graders in one year. If the issue is bullying, then it's reasonable to wonder why the bullying of 1955 didn't create the same outcomes.

Why doesn't the boy go out and buy a gun? Guns can solve every problem!

to get back at their tormenters.

to be to criticize poor dead children?

Yeah, you heard me, Ermey, bring it on.