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srican69

(1,426 posts)
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 05:31 PM Feb 2014

is it okay to feel okay to grab an opportunity at the expense of my fellow consultant?

Dear DUers ...

I am in a bit of a moral quandary... I am a consultant at big media company... I am working on a project that I fear will come to an end in the next few months... However there is another piece of a work that is being handled by another consultant that is for my taking ...the business manager isn't happy with the quality of the work being done ... Normally I would be happy at work coming my way ...but I know the guy whose work is in question ...he is a very nice guy and to make things worse his wife has cancer and needs the gig ...

I don't know if he will get canned or not ...but should I decline this and let chips fall where they may.. Or simply act in self interest? I have a mortgage to pay too


36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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is it okay to feel okay to grab an opportunity at the expense of my fellow consultant? (Original Post) srican69 Feb 2014 OP
An ethical dilemna quinnox Feb 2014 #1
i see the issue more morally than ethically... srican69 Feb 2014 #3
Ok. And to clarify, I may have stated what Kant meant "too softly" quinnox Feb 2014 #9
The "client" is the key part of this. panader0 Feb 2014 #17
How will you feel if you take it and he is let go? nt bemildred Feb 2014 #2
terrible ... srican69 Feb 2014 #4
What about giving him the heads up about what has been said so he can change arthritisR_US Feb 2014 #10
Can you take it and throw some of the back room work to the other guy, so he gets Squinch Feb 2014 #12
The question for you is what role you want to play? bemildred Feb 2014 #23
I think you just answered your own qurstion with that Armstead Feb 2014 #32
If you are sure this guy would keep the gig if you didn't take it, then don't take it. reformist2 Feb 2014 #5
I don't know ...I really wish I knew srican69 Feb 2014 #7
Take it. Vashta Nerada Feb 2014 #6
boooo Adam051188 Feb 2014 #11
Highly cynical. Vashta Nerada Feb 2014 #15
wouldn't hold it against anyone to take the money, i guess. idk. Adam051188 Feb 2014 #8
What happens if you decline it? Nye Bevan Feb 2014 #13
Good luck. LiberalAndProud Feb 2014 #14
I consulted for years and have been on both ends of it. If you can take over the work and manage bettyellen Feb 2014 #16
If you know this other guy, consider asking him. MineralMan Feb 2014 #18
I'm thinking along your same lines ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #26
Yup. That doesn't seem to be what MineralMan Feb 2014 #30
I know, Huh? ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #31
I think we have old-fashioned business ethics. MineralMan Feb 2014 #33
I don't know. Xyzse Feb 2014 #19
It's certainly a quandary. lpbk2713 Feb 2014 #20
Take care of yourself first madville Feb 2014 #21
You forgot the most important question. FBaggins Feb 2014 #22
will you be ok financially without it ? also can you help the guy out right now ? JI7 Feb 2014 #24
You have to go with what the client needs. bravenak Feb 2014 #25
Maybe, give the fellow consultant ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #27
Doing the right thing isn't about the effect it will have on your fellow man, but on the effect it okaawhatever Feb 2014 #28
1. Get your boy fired Blue_Tires Feb 2014 #29
Self interest. nt TheMathieu Feb 2014 #34
There are lots of levels to this justiceischeap Feb 2014 #35
Better to take the business CFLDem Feb 2014 #36
 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
1. An ethical dilemna
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 05:34 PM
Feb 2014

You have to make your own decision, that is number one. I have been studying ethics lately, and I think Kant has an interesting way of looking at these things. He said, whatever action you do, imagine the action would become a universal law, and consider it like that.

srican69

(1,426 posts)
3. i see the issue more morally than ethically...
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 05:38 PM
Feb 2014

My ethics say no problem...as long as I am not acting against the interests of my client's...

 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
9. Ok. And to clarify, I may have stated what Kant meant "too softly"
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 05:43 PM
Feb 2014

What Kant actually said: "Act only according to that maxim by which you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law."

Morally, I think that is really up to you. I have no comment about that.

panader0

(25,816 posts)
17. The "client" is the key part of this.
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 05:45 PM
Feb 2014

I work construction. I believe in my 40 years of work that the client always wanted the best job he/she could get.
That part IS ethical, the interests of the client.

arthritisR_US

(7,288 posts)
10. What about giving him the heads up about what has been said so he can change
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 05:43 PM
Feb 2014

his present performance? He can't change that which he is unaware of and having recently lost my husband to cancer I know how things can fall to the wayside.

Squinch

(50,956 posts)
12. Can you take it and throw some of the back room work to the other guy, so he gets
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 05:44 PM
Feb 2014

an income stream and both of you don't lose the client?

If you can do that, he's much better off than if he's just canned from the account.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
23. The question for you is what role you want to play?
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 06:00 PM
Feb 2014

You can't take the job from him and stay friends. And you can't control what the boss does, but you can control what you do.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
32. I think you just answered your own qurstion with that
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 09:29 PM
Feb 2014

If you honestly believe it is fairly certain he's going to get canned anyway, then you would be able to fill the place in good conscience.

But if you think it might be pushing him overboard.....well, that's another story

reformist2

(9,841 posts)
5. If you are sure this guy would keep the gig if you didn't take it, then don't take it.
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 05:40 PM
Feb 2014

If the guy is going to lose the job anyway, that's a different matter.
 

Vashta Nerada

(3,922 posts)
6. Take it.
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 05:41 PM
Feb 2014

You said so yourself that you have a mortgage to pay.

I'm sure the consultant would grab work from you if he had the chance.

 

Adam051188

(711 posts)
8. wouldn't hold it against anyone to take the money, i guess. idk.
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 05:43 PM
Feb 2014

is the hierarchy of your organization such that you could assist your coworker? perhaps since the business manager seems more interested in communicating with you his displeasure than him, you could inform him of the finer nuances he is missing? Maybe some sort of "coaching"?

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
13. What happens if you decline it?
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 05:44 PM
Feb 2014

Does the guy whose wife has cancer get to keep the job, or are they so dissatisfied with his work that they will find someone else to take it on?

Perhaps explain to the business manager that while you would be very happy with this project you would not feel comfortable taking work away from someone who needs it, given his wife's situation. The business manager should respect you for this and it may well help you in the long run. Of course, they may decide to let the guy go at which point there should be no moral dilemma for you in taking on the project.

LiberalAndProud

(12,799 posts)
14. Good luck.
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 05:44 PM
Feb 2014

There is no right choice here.
If the quality of his work is sub-par, the company will be making the change anyway, I would guess. If it helps, in your shoes I would probably take the gig.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
16. I consulted for years and have been on both ends of it. If you can take over the work and manage
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 05:45 PM
Feb 2014

not to trash your friends work in the process, it shoudln't cause any hurt feelings. However it is sometimes almost demanded of you to trash the former employee. I'd not want to take it on then.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
18. If you know this other guy, consider asking him.
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 05:48 PM
Feb 2014

He may be ready to dump the client. Who knows? If you're not sure what to do and you'd feel bad if you knocked the guy out of work, then asking him is a great idea. Tell him that you've been approached and about your concerns.

What goes around comes around. If you take the gig and he loses his work and income, you'll have made an enemy, and enemies aren't a good thing. If you ask and he says to take it, then take it. If he objects to you trying for the job, ask him if he's secure in it and does he think he'll be able to hang on to it.

Do the right thing and talk to this person. Either way, you'll have given him a heads up about the dissatisfaction the client has with him.

That's what I'd do, anyhow. Who knows, you may make a friend and that may pay off down the road somehow.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
26. I'm thinking along your same lines ...
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 06:19 PM
Feb 2014

I say pull the guy's coat-tail about the client's concerns and possibly offer to provide assistance, if possible.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
31. I know, Huh? ...
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 09:26 PM
Feb 2014

It's been my experience that helping someone who is struggling pays better (long-term) dividends than taking advantage of someone's weakness/failings. In the latter case, you get that contract ... but you also get the reputation for cutting someone's throat (whether deserved or not). In the former case, you lose that contract; but by reaching out to the guy, you gain an ally that can/will steer business your way.

At least, that has been my experience.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
33. I think we have old-fashioned business ethics.
Tue Feb 11, 2014, 10:04 AM
Feb 2014

They're not as common today as they once were, but they still work just fine.

Xyzse

(8,217 posts)
19. I don't know.
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 05:50 PM
Feb 2014

Is it alright to come to an agreement with the guy?
Merely to be paid a retainer fee to help out if need be?

I don't know. It is kinda hard. I don't have those problems, so I've been known to do some other person's job, if I can do it quickly, or to even give a huge part of the idea on how something should be done.

Still, it is also not on a contractual basis, so I can't really tell you.

lpbk2713

(42,760 posts)
20. It's certainly a quandary.
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 05:53 PM
Feb 2014



Based on your Bus Mngr's thoughts, if you don't act on this you might be thought of as not aggressive enough. On the other hand, I wouldn't want to give that colleague any more undue hardship either. Myself, I think I would just not do anything and see how it all works out. I think my conscience would suffer less that way.

madville

(7,412 posts)
21. Take care of yourself first
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 05:53 PM
Feb 2014

I've helped coworkers through the years but there is a line. It's not like you're actively working to make the guy look bad. Do what is best for your career and quality of life first, still help them though if the opportunity is available.

FBaggins

(26,748 posts)
22. You forgot the most important question.
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 05:56 PM
Feb 2014

What's in the client's best interest?

If you're a consultant, don't you have an ethical obligation to find solutions for their problems?

JI7

(89,252 posts)
24. will you be ok financially without it ? also can you help the guy out right now ?
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 06:05 PM
Feb 2014

maybe some tips on how to do a better job ?

you say his wife has cancer, could that be affecting the quality of the job he is doing ? his mind is not totally there maybe.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
25. You have to go with what the client needs.
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 06:10 PM
Feb 2014

Your duty as a consultant is to provide the best services to your client.

You may want to give your fellow employee a heads up that his work has been slipping, and that it's being noticed. It might light a fire under him and help him to shift his focus to work. Or he may decide to take a leave of absence to spend time with his wife.


It seems that at the present time the quality of your work more than likely surpasses the quality of his work, and in the best interests of the client, your company, and yourself, you must do your duty and take the job. Otherwise you risk losing the client and your fellow employee may be let go anyway, and you'll get the stink eye for not taking over that account and keeping the client's business.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
27. Maybe, give the fellow consultant ...
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 06:21 PM
Feb 2014

a queit heads up to the client's concerns ... Possibly offer to help him out.

okaawhatever

(9,462 posts)
28. Doing the right thing isn't about the effect it will have on your fellow man, but on the effect it
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 06:26 PM
Feb 2014

will have on you. I understand you want to know if your decision will result in the loss of a job for someone else, but doing the right thing doesn't always mean you get to know the outcome. Sometimes you do the right thing and the outcome sucks anyway. Sometimes you do the right thing and a year later the wrong thing is done to you. It's about holding your head up and knowing that your life is as moral and just as you want it to be.

It may very well be that you don't take the job, the guy gets fired and then some total d-bag gets the work. Are you okay with that? That outcome doesn't change who you are, only the decision does. You are the reward for being a good person, not a check.

A clear conscience makes for a very soft pillow.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
29. 1. Get your boy fired
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 06:31 PM
Feb 2014

2. Pull some strings to make sure I'm the new hire

Clean conscious, win-win all around!

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)
35. There are lots of levels to this
Tue Feb 11, 2014, 10:16 AM
Feb 2014

I work as a consultant also... if you don't take the gig, does that work against you as a consultant? What does your current "employer" say about your work if you refuse to take this? When it comes down to it, it's the client who matters. If your taking the work keeps the client happy, then that is what must be done. Doesn't mean you need to be gleeful about it but refusing it for some sort of loyalty over a guy you probably don't even really know... I'd go with pleasing the client, not my "co-worker."

 

CFLDem

(2,083 posts)
36. Better to take the business
Tue Feb 11, 2014, 04:18 PM
Feb 2014

and regret it, than not take and regret.

If it helps, the client made up their mind about your friend before they asked you.

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