Obviously not all of them, but if the shoe fits for some.....

Never overestimate Florida.

"thug".

But I can totally see at least one person deep down thinking that mouthy black teenagers listening to loudrap music are per se a threat.

they would be ostracized....

I blame the jurors who gave him that verdict.

But to some ignorant juror(s), that is irrelevant.

Our system is clearly broke. Our society is clearly broke. It is what it is.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

He murdered the kid no matter what they say. First he interfered with them and then he went to his car, got the gun and murdered the kid who would celebrated his birthday tomorrow.

Fucking Murder!!!
We have very little justice living while black.

Apparently racism has completely taken over the Florida justice system!!

Ask Jeb Bush about his stand your ground law.

Fugg 'em!

Seems to have gotten exponentially worse through the years.

I have been noticing during the Zimmerman trial and this one the media threw out every name and every case possible in Florida but, I didnt hear any conversation about who got this started and dont get me started on George Bush in Texas.

I bet that's what's slowing them up.

Murder 1 in this case would include premeditation, and some of them are boggling at that. Murder 2 does not require premeditation. The jury can convict him of murder on either.

for a long time - that is certain

And even if this jury hangs on the murder count, he'll be tried again. He's not going to get anything less than murder 2, unless I'm insane. They say you don't know when you're insane, but given the facts in this case, I think you could run this by a hundred juries and get nothing less than a murder verdict.

60 years.

This prosecutor should have charged him with Murder 2 from the start along with all the other crimes he committed. I agree with several others on here in that she over charges on these cases. She did it with the GZ case and she did it again in this case.
She needs to either play politics or be a prosecutor but she quite obviously can not do both.

In this case. Premeditation doesn't have to mean that you were sitting and planning it for months or years. Premeditation can be as simple as what you thought when you pulled out the gun, aimed it at the victim, and pulled the trigger. Did you do that because you wanted to kill him, or did you do that because you were trying to defend yourself?

That motivational difference is all that separates murder 1 and 2 in this case, and I bet several jurors are going for the idea that the intent was just to kill him. That it was a rage murder, which qualifies as premeditated. If the death was a byproduct of the intention (self-defense), it's murder 2. If it was the intent of the action, it's murder 1.

Isn't it hard for a prosecutor here to buy the idea that this was a defensive action?

I've always though M1 means it was planned ahead

premeditated. He bought the gun because he was prepared to shoot "thugs", ie Black kid.

The narrowest definition of premeditation involves the intent when he pointed the gun and aimed the trigger. A murder 1 charge is justified here under the theory that the shooting was not defensive.

If the jury believes that his motivation in shooting was to defend himself, it can't be premeditated. But if the jury doesn't buy that claim (which is at least somewhat contradicted by the parting shots), then they can vote for murder 1.

But I bet that some are thinking that there's at least plausible doubt that he panicked under threat and started shooting and then just kept shooting, which makes it murder 2.

Obviously since it was an accidental encounter he wasn't sitting around planning it for days, but that doesn't mean it's not premeditated.

that makes sense

and callous.

It's insane that we can even have a case like this and not even be able to get a clear verdict. What if more white folks will think this means they will get away with murder, too?

Count on that

Because they are possible rapists.
doesn't it?

and that pesky neighbor who burns leaves, and waves his rake around.

****making list now*****

running away

and maybe whether or not you are a woman.

over charging and under prosecuting, same as with Zimmerman. Says it should have been Murder 2 with lesser charges, it would have been a stronger case and jury wouldn't get caught up with premeditation issues.

She is on MSNBC now.

Murder 1 and the lesser included charges. It seems they have agreed on attempted murder and hurling missiles.

what was that about???

it was driving away. That's the actual term used, lol.

I'll wait for the reading of the decision and not try to take the speculations of the media as fact.

This is making me crazy.

The jurors are likely arguing premeditation.

means self- defense against all.

If this was really about 1st vs 2nd they would have wrapped up days ago.

With each charge, they have to evaluate the self-defense claim.

It's a top-down, one end to the other process, moving through all the charges.

For multiple charges with multiple victims, it's not a slam-dunk process, even with clear guilt.

this morning. Whether if they thought it was cool to kill Jordan Davis whether that also meant it was cool to shoot at everyone else.

The question was whether or not they had to evaluate the self-defense claim once, or for each charge.

For all you know, they rejected the self-defense claim for the first charge, and were asking if they had to go through the exercise four more times.

(They do.)

Because they have to evaluate it for every charge, it's a perfectly valid question.

Stop reading tea leaves into every single utterance, your blood pressure will thank you.

they didn't ask "is a finding on one count binding on the others" they asked "if we find it was justified as self-defense"

the question assumes a finding of self-defense in at least one count

aka.. tea leaves.

when that defense should have been ruled out after 20 minutes

And, there is not a thing they could do to me for voting that way, notwithstanding all the legal mumbojumbo.

That is one of the lesser included charges in count 1. But they don't seem to be able to agree on any of the 4 choices they have for count 1: M1, M2, manslaughter, or not guilty.

Somebody in there fell for the b.s. self-defense crap. I think someone is holding out for not guilty and won't agree to any of the other charges included in count 1.

Because the act of shooting at someone can be considered premeditation (depends on motivation), and because the parting shots show his state of mind, plus, who shoots someone because you think a different person is pointing a gun at you? Is that very plausible?

Think about it - if you were really convinced the guy wanted to kill the kid when he shot (defensive shooting is iffy to say THE LEAST here), you'd have an impossibly hard time agreeing to murder 2 because of the parting shots.

And if you knew the guy would be retried on the murder if you didn't agree to murder 2, you might take that chance. It's your conscience. You might have a really hard time agreeing to murder 2. You know the guy's going to jail, so it's not as if hanging the jury on this one count lets him walk around and kill someone else. You don't believe that any jury is ever going to acquit. You might well sit there for as long as it takes, because the worst possible outcome if you are willing to hang the jury is the same as the verdict you cannot in conscience agree to. Therefore you have no ethical reason not to keep voting it as you see it!

The ones who don't agree with premeditation probably have a similar difficulty. They're fixating on the accidental nature of the encounter.

These people have to live with their votes all the rest of their lives, and the Davis boy's life is over. If you believe it's premeditated murder, you'd have a hell of a hard time not sacrificing a few of your days when he gets no more days. I would keep sitting there insisting on my vote, and I bet you would too.

questions this morning indicates the problem goes deeper and that something is rotten

I should have guessed Angela Corey was involved in this somehow. I have a word for her but I can't and won't use it! Will we be spectators to another post-verdict presser where she smiles from ear-to-ear and acts likes it's a *^#$@! party? No justice!

ay jury selection!! The Zimmerman jury was a freaking joke.

ever seen, a total slap in the face to the Martin family!

'The jury did not reveal the verdicts they reached on the four lesser counts, and must reconvene to reach a final verdict on the deadlocked first degree murder charge. . .

On Saturday, the sequestered jury of 8 whites, 2 blacks, one Asian and one Hispanic resumed deliberations at 9 a.m., their twenty-second hour of deliberating. A half hour later they asked if they could rule whether self-defense was applicable to any of the five counts individually.

Judge Russell Healey answered that “self-defense or justifiable use of deadly force applies separately for each count." . .

“Each count has to, by law, be considered separately,” Healey said, adding that he realized, “It’s not easy to compartmentalize these things.”

On Friday night, before announcing, “We have reached a wall for this evening," the jury asked if they were allowed to reach a verdict on some counts and remain deadlocked on others. Healey said Florida law allowed for this.

The jurors might come back hung on the first degree-murder charge — asserting that Dunn’s choice to kill Davis was premeditated — in which case, Dunn can potentially be retried.

If the jury is hung on the first-degree murder charge, Dunn could still face up to 60 years in prison, Coffee said.

But if Dunn is found guilty on all counts, he faces life in prison. Prosecutors have said they would not pursue the death penalty.

and facts really matter in these cases, MIGHT help folks recognize difficulty facing jurors, instead of calling them 'morons.'

Can't he go away for life as well.

I know two are African American women but that's it? Thanks

If I was a Racist prick, I'd take one white bigot gun loving male to counter a couple of Black females.

selected, the bottom 4 are the alternates.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4487996

N/T

for at least 60 years according to an expert on CNN regardless of the Murder 1 charge for each of the consecutive penalties for other charges.

But he SHOULD be convicted of cold blooded murder. That and only that is true justice for Jordan.

IF he gets 60 years he'll be buried from prison and that's good enough for me.

although 60 years doesn't mean 60 years. He deserves life with no chance of parole.

Whether a state has an SYG law, a duty-to-retreat law, or is silent on the question, it's one person's assessment of another that lies at the heart of the matter. I rather doubt a dispassionate consideration of applicable law is a component of 99%+ of these scenarios. The law only enters into it after the violence occurs.

yes indeed

deliberation with the Allen Charge.

... has decided on this last count or is hopelessly hung. Then they will convene and announce the other 4 verdicts.

for a guilty verdict (s) doesn't cave. Hang it, don't let him off.

I haven't followed the trial, but what I recall is that he's charged with multiple other counts in a state thst basically has strict rules on gun crime. He's somewhat older so a conviction for just about any two of those counts puts him away forever.

Isn't that right or have I got it wrong? Because the reaction I'm seeing seems indicative of a criminal who is about to walk.

PS sorry I'm on my phone, it's hard to read this thread

Murder 1
Murder 2
Manslaughter
Attempted Murder (3 counts for the other boys in the car)
Hurling deadly missiles (shooting at the car when it was driving away)

And yes, he could face 20 years each if found guilty on the attempts and missiles charges.

good discussion if the case. The anchor is pissed and in disbelief of the stupidity of the jury.

off that the jury cannot decide on the murder trial.

Dunn could have easily moved to a different available parking spot. Except I don't think he (Dunn) will let anyone else tell him what to do.

he has become one of my favorite anchors

why would they acquit on lesser charges if they were still arguing over M1?

attempted charges. They are in agreement that firing on the other teens was not in self-defense. Unfortunately, the murder charge contains 3 different choices for guilty AND the acquittal if they believe it was self-defense. It only takes ONE juror to believe it was self-defense to hang on that one charge.

Michael Skolnik ?@MichaelSkolnik 9m
There're obviously jurors in jury room who are fighting for Jordan Davis and not giving up! This ain't over yet!! Keep believing to the end!

Those jurists would not have thought twice about hanging a black male that did the same crime as that asshole white killer!

Florida is a KILLER state for black kids!

his jury let a dangerous man go free without even a limit on his right to carry firearms, I am amazed to think that a juror in this trial would fail to see how dangerous Dunn and his ilk are. If they send a message that a shooting like this is OK, what guarantee do they have that some other jerk won't feel he can blow *them* away and claim to have feared for his life.

Do these idiots assume that being white will always be like bullet-proof armor in a confrontation with an uncontrolled, raging macho man with a gun? The texter in the movie theater was white, but he is dead. Even racist jurors should find it terrifying to envision Michael Dunn walking around armed and convinced he is untouchable, and if Dunn can go free after his murderous flip out, then other guys, as long as they are white, are going to feel much, much less constrained about pulling a gun and blasting away when someone annoys them.

The person who annoys them could be the juror who wants to acquit, or someone close to that juror. Convicting these obvious murderers is essential to making public space safe for all of us!

20 year sentences.

Then he still has to deal with the additional 15 years on the gun charge.