vaccinated. Does the physician make that exception?

vaccinated.

How would a parent, or doctor know, if a new born infant would be allergic to eggs, or would have a bad reaction, until the inoculation is given? Why throw up road blocks before the road is built? Have you gotten your shingles shot yet?

vaccination, that is how they know. If certain allergies run in the family, the child could be tested

and you need 80-90% vaccine coverage for herd immunity.

and yes they make the exception for kids who can't have vaccines for one of those reasons. I have a neighbor whose id is allergic to eggs and her pediatrician told her NOT to vaccinate her child. But her child and those like her child are the reason why they want everyone else who can be vaccinated to actually be vaccinated.

the other children get vaccinated, it protects their child

and should be discussed with the doctor. A conscientious doctor will make exceptions. There are workarounds. My oldest had a horrible reaction to his first DTP. The rest were all given in half-doses with no reaction. We moved in the middle of the series, and the new pediatrician had never heard of that, but a quick phone call to the former one clarified the situation. Parents can also ask for vaccinations to be spaced out. There is no reason to give 5 vaccinations at one visit, as I told my daughter when they tried to do that to one of her boys.

A child with an egg allergy can still be vaccinated at the provider's discretion. The procedure is to assess the severity of the allergy, then decide whether to vaccinate. If the provider decides the benefit is worth the risk, he/she will vaccinate, and then observe the patient for 20-30 minutes for adverse reaction. If allergic symptoms develop, the provider can treat with epinephrin. And the patient will still develop the necessary antibodies that constitute an effective immunization.

Roughly 70% of patients with egg allergies have been vaccinated safely, with little or no adverse side effects.

And the first place to begin knocking some sense into them is the medical community.

The anti-vax idiots don't deal in reality and until the decide to start, he should not have to deal with their non-sense.

and refuse to be vaccinated before leaving the country? 99% if not all cases of measles outbreaks in this country are brought in by an adult traveling to Europe and bringing the infection back with them. I believe the mass transit train in San Francisco is alerting passengers of measles exposure from an adult who recently returned from travel abroad and has measles.

There needs to be responsibility placed on *everyone* not just babies.

But they are contagious for at least a week,, maybe more, before they even know they have measles.

I would never take me or my family to Europe where measles is running rampant without being fully vaccinated or checking blood titers for antibodies. I'm 51 and have had measles, mumps, rubella and chicken pox. All 6 of my other siblings did as well. So I wouldn't worry for myself. But the husband does not know his vaccine history. He went to live with his dad and step mom and no one seems to know if he was vaccinated with MMR or not. He did travel to amsterdam for business a few years ago and did not check his immunity and I was very angry that he traveled to Europe without being vaccinated. But he's a grown man so it's kind of hard for me to force him.

but one travels a lot for work. I just e-mailed him to suggest he discuss this with his doctor.

But I seem to remember a time when you had to show vaccination records before traveling outside of the US. Didn't that used to be a requirement? I'm sure if it ever was the airline lobby probably got that removed. Can't blow money on a ticket flying to France on a moment's notice if you have to go get a vaccination first.

...calming vaccine-reluctant parents who have bought into the "too-many-too-soon-overwhelm-the immune-system" BS when I explain the following:

1. newborns are exposed to thousands of antigens in the everyday world the moment they are born, and generally handle this just fine

2. the total number of all the antigens contained all the immunizations given in the first 6 months is less than the antigens that used to be in a single smallpox vaccine.

3. 100-150 years ago, 16% of children dies before they were 5 because of devastating illness we can now protect against.

It was quite interesting, during the first "swine" flu outbreak, everyone wanted the flu shot, they didn't care if it had a preservative in it, and they were upset when we ran out. The perceived risk was great enough that people didn't obsess over fears not supported by research.

We have one family in our practice whose mom was not vaccine averse (educated as a nurse practitioner but never employed as such), but terribly afraid that either the wrong thing would be given, or a vaccine would not be prepared properly. She insisted that the immunizations be reconstituted and drawn up in front of her. Unusual, but we accommodated her request. She was very worried about pretty much everything. Imagine my surprise when, in the middle of the SARS epidemic in China, the family decided to go there so the kids could study Mandarin. WTF!

This is the one that I want to beat people over the head with:

About this. A Portland pediatrician said the same thing--they don't want to hand hold kids and their parents on health issues when they take a completely unscientific view on vaccines.

I hope more follow.

Rather than laying down an ultimatum a good clinician would work to educate the parents on why vaccinations are important and why as a pediatrician s/he had a responsibility to limit exposure of his patients to unvaccinated people.

Some people will never be convinced, no matter how much time is spent "educating them." That time could be better sent treating other children whose parents are not crackpots.

I'd see it differently if after attempting to convince them of the benefits of vaccination the parents held firm, but categorically kicking them out based on whether their starting positioning is that they don't plan to vaccinate? That's exhibiting an arrogance that probably extends to other parts of the practice and the parents are better off going elsewhere for kid care.

10 minutes, 30 minutes, and hour? For each and every parent that is anti-vaccination? That is valuable time he could actually be using treating truly sick children.

As to arrogance, you bet your ass it's arrogant, and that is what some people need. They need to be told flat out their ideas are wrong and against all current scientific knowledge. Just like Secretary Kerry is doing.

Or should we give the same consideration to Climate Change Deniers?

Coming from you, that means a lot.

There are people who cannot get the vaccines. But iirc childhood vaccines do not have egg in them either. The flu vaccine does. There are some folks (a tiny group) that has bad reactions to them. After that, we live in an increasingly strange place where people use lights, but electricity might as well be magic, and cell phones, it's not radio, but magic. Might as well.

It is down right scary what is happening. We live in the 21st century, but we might as well live culturally right before the scientific revolution.

And if those children aren't going to be vaccinated, they WILL be sick children. Is washing her/his hands of the family treating sick children, or is it just washing one's hands?

is akin to trying to explain facts to Tea Party nuts or trying to explain Evolution to Creationists. Or, perhaps more properly, its like trying to teach a pig to sing.

...who said evidence could get him to change his mind on something, and the RWNJ who said "Nothing" would change his mind.

If people want to live in a pre-scientific world, that is fine. They need to be told upfront that is fantasy.

My wife is a witch, (Wiccan) and also a medical professional. Her pagan religion does not preclude respect for science: rather, it fits quite neatly, since both are based on the natural world.

I know you weren't trying to be offensive, it's just that people using "witch" in such a manner is a pet peeve of mine.

And his last book. I am sure he meant no insult either.

But will change the phrasing

or know all, but people who refuse to vacc their kids due to McCarthy claptrap deserve to be told, not welcomed in this practice, period.

They are people you cannot reach 9.9 times out of 10.

And if they chose to live in a pre-scientific era, well fine, they are free to do that. Doctors do not have to put the rest of their practice at risk. Yes, it is that simple.

But if you think I said they are gods, well then... back at you by the way.

THAT was my point with the science gods comment. Beyond that though, kicking the parents to the curb still leave their children (and the children and others without immune protection) vulnerable to the diseases that may have been prevented by immunization. So the doctor may keep the risk out of the office but the risk is still there --- and WILL be there until someone gets through to the parents that immunization is a good thing. I know that some people are too thick-headed to ever get that but for a clinician not to even try to get through seems irresponsible.

in other countries parents have to show their kids vaccinated before going to school, for good reason. We used to. It's time we return to that standard.

We are codling these idiots too much.

But then again we have US Congressmen, sitting in science committees, saying that the world will stop rotating due to wind farms. Yes, that is for like real.

So I guess we will get what we are striving for. And that is idiocracy on steroids. I swear, it was supposed to be a comedy...

The parents read a book by Jenny McCarthy.

I can see why the pediatrician got pissed off.

yet when confronted with untrained parents who have concerns about vaccination,the doctor issues an ultimatum. Is that really best practice?

Yes it is.

"I'm a medical professional who specializes in the health care of children. Based on my training and experience, I feel strongly enough about this issue that it's a deal-breaker for me in terms of accepting new patients."

That's the effect of what he's doing -- and I'd say it's a pretty powerful educational statement.

On top of that, he has his other patients to consider. In the linked article, he mentions that a two-week-old infant in his waiting room could be infected if these anti-vax parents bring their kid in with a bad cough.

God, some of the comments on that article. Shows just how many crackpots there are out there.

Just take a look around, when you get off the plane. Talk to me then.

People who don't want vaccinations should stop free-loading off the herd immunity of the rest of us and enjoy their outdated 17th century views on health.

Any parent who chooses not to vaccinate without a legitimate, medical reason is a fucking idiot.

Sid

I'm glad to see him bring up a bit of logic I hadn't yet seen: If vaccines are so bad, your doctor must be some kind of monster to keep administering them knowing that, so why are you still bringing your kid to see him/her? I hope a lot more pediatricians start asking the same thing.

Believes in medicine enough to go to a doctor. Just not enough to hear what they have to say.

The effect on the unborn. The baby can have blindness or be deaf or be, how do I put this, developmentally delayed, which sounds like you might have a chance to catch up. In reality that catch up might mean being trip trained to the restroom and holding your own spoon.

Our town had a little family missing its sister because she died from measles complications. Eff that!!!

I was vaccinated properly, but the vaccines don't work for everyone. They work for most people, and that's enough, so long as everyone gets vaccinated who is medically able to do so.

If he allows unvaccinated children in his practice, these kids might be in the waiting room, exposing a medically fragile child (who can't have vaccines or is immunocompromised). If he allows the children whose parents refuse to vaccinate, he could theoretically be liable for exposing fragile children.