Creating hokum "shortages" daily by refusing to pay adequate compensation.

-- Mal

A driver for UPS makes about $70,000.00 ..

Pay scale is 30.88 hr look it up your not on here to be called a liar stuff it hard and often

it up" (especially when they already did & provided *you* a link that says something completely different) doesn't give anyone confidence in the information you got from a driver.

For flying off handle here but I did not need to supply proof of my statement that number is directly from the driver who has been delivering to me for many years... the info is readily available the 30.88 is their hourly wage for delivery drivers which for straight time comes to about 62,000.00 year.. add in overtime and bennies and it ends up much higher than the 70 I stated.

I got $58K "average" which means there's a range, probably the median is lower, since average wages tend to right skew.

Not my job to "prove" that statement but here is something, look for more for yourself aif oyu choose I don't think the driver was lying to me and I doubt he wants to hear from anyone on it.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=United_Parcel_Service_%28UPS%29%2c_Inc./Hourly_Rate

I will balance that with the fact that "simply hired.com" says the average salary for a UPS package delivery driver is $39K.

and with the fact that your friend seems to have quoted you median salary, which seems odd.

Here's something more definitive from the Teamsters, which says average wage for full-time UPS drivers = $29+.

http://www.teamsters492.org/docs/UPS%20vs.%20FedEx.pdf

Part-timers make less.

Be aware that UPS has increased part-time labor and is pushing two tier.

http://www.labornotes.org/2013/06/vote-no-movement-sends-ups-bargainers-back-table


The Postal Service has fewer part-time employees than any other international postal operation. Currently only 13 percent of its workforce is part-time.... For example, UPS employs a 53 percent part-time workforce and FedEx remains around 40 percent.

http://www.uspsoig.gov/blog/oig-blog-tags/ups

Republic will shut down over 65% of their jets and lose income of $22 million. Am I missing something in this logic? This is a no-brainer to me---pay the pilots more and make $15 million instead of $22 million???

I have no idea how many hours these pilots work for the $21,000, but that it the target minimum wage for Obama if they are working full-time.

It's a matter of finding enough pilots with > 1,500 hours who can get an ATP certificate, can pass a first class medical exam, and wants to become a right seater on a regional jet.

I can clear the first two hurdles, but have no desire for the third. Many of those who have the desire are going to have problems with the first two. Therein lies the problem.

that there would be more pilots willing to take those hurdles? I can understand not doing it for the pay that is offered now.

There's already a lot of people out there who want to fly for a living. There aren't many people who can self finance the number of hours it takes to get an ATP. It's just too expensive. The way it worked before is a pilot would get to the minimum hours a regional required any way they could so that they could work towards the requirement for the ATP. The reason so many were willing to do it for so little is because they were essentially getting paid to build time. Now in order to find ATP qualified pilots the regionals are either going to have to look elsewhere, or they are going to have to start their own time building operations. The larger carriers are going to have the resources to do this. They will also have the resources to lure previously qualified pilots away from smaller regionals. I'm not convinced this is the best thing for the industry, because I think it may squeeze some of the smaller regionals out of the market. I think it will have a positive effect on the pay of regional pilots and they will be more qualified, which in theory will improve safety (which isn't really a problem). It will almost certainly drive up ticket prices for those now served by regional airlines.

Pilots, for all the training and various ratings (multiengine, instrument, etc.) and certifications and FAA approvals they have to have and keep up to date, don't get paid diddly-squat.

Here's another thing to be aware of: FAA regulations about pilots drinking (unless they've changed and I don't think they have) are: "8 hours bottle to throttle". This means a pilot can go out and get stinking smashed drunk and fly you and a plane full of others to Tahiti within 8 hours of that drunken binge. There is some debate about it and various independent airlines and air service carriers may have their own rules (typically 12 hours it seems) but it doesn't seem the FAA reg has been changed: http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/aviation-law/48873-8-hour-bottle-throttle-rule.html

I've always thought this should be changed to 24 hours (at least). But - whatever. If I gotta go somewhere via commercial airline, I still do it.

financial problems, like looming foreclosure and repo.

Pulling down $400,000+. I don't know how their salary scales work, but there are huge variances

The condition of the skies is of concern, as the atmosphere is painted with the chems from the many black op programs, and then those chems intoxicate the pilots, who are slowly being poisoned.

People protesting the black ops programs are told that the trails behind the planes are normal, and all of it is due to normal aviation being flown in the skies. But in the five days before Christmas, the skies here in Northern Calif. were almost empty of airplanes, even though pre-Christmas is the heaviest time of year for air travel. And in Calif. the weather was bright and sunny, so it is not like the flights from LA to Seattle or SF to Seattle were cancelled.


The PTB really like to rub our noses in it.

On Sun Feb 23, 2014, 12:22 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Not only is the pay rate ridiculously low,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4547571

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Conspiracy theory, whoa!

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Feb 23, 2014, 12:31 AM, and the Jury voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is some crazy shit but it's not offensive. Stop using the alert button so much and wasting people's time.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Black op chem trails is crazy talk.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

this would be gone before we had time to read it. I almost alerted on it myself, but figured it was probably already taken care of. I guess it was.

That has been that way for many years. I somebody who was a first officer and did not make much money. He became a captain and started earning much more. He stopped regular flying to become a union rep and worked hard to get better wages and benefits for the pilots flying for his airline. After almost fifteen years he went back to flying (he kept his flying status and always flew the monthly minimum). He wants to get into one of the big airlines, but even flying for a regional airline he makes about $85,000/year.

for flight training.

And all the airlines are complaining about a shortage of qualified pilots. They'd fix that problem if they paid them a salary commensurate with the cost of their training.

and the airlines are being disingenuous about their complaints of the lack of qualified pilots.

I was nust explaining what I know about the topic. The pilot I know was paid little, but did not spend $100,000 to get his license and hours to qualify for his starting job with a regional airline. It does not make sense to spend 100k for a 21k job, that's why there is a shortage. I hope things change.

but I'm not opposed to the raising of the hours.

The only reason Paul Wellstone died is because of incompetent pilots.

One is flying corporate jets and pulling down $90k flying the Canadair Challenger, which is the plane that was stretched into the Canadair Regional Jet. One re-enlisted in the military and the last one is making $60,000 a year selling office furniture but still flies several times a month as a contractor for a leasing company. Basically flying planes between storage facilities and maintenance facilities and flying test flights of planes coming out of maintenance but aren't being delivered to an airline immediately.

That is so wrong that I cannot even think of the right word to express what I am thinking!

21k???

There's no shortage of people out there who want to fly for a living. In fact, many of them are running up $100K+ in education loans just trying to get the ratings and experience required to get their foot in the door. Some (if not most or nearly all) of the regional carriers take advantage of the excess supply of labor by paying shit for starting wages. From their perspective, why should they pay $50K for a pilot when they have no problem finding highly skilled and competent pilots for $21K? It's simply a matter of employers exploiting a surplus in the labor pool.

Yeah I saw the 100k price tag, that is why it is so wrong imo.

Some airlines do not have regional subsidiaries and don't fly smaller commuter aircraft.

Here's the pay chart for various airlines. Note also that pilots are paid on an hourly basis and their annual rate depends on how much they fly. Their lowest pay will depend on how many hours they are guaranteed. American Eagle pays $25.84 per hour for a first year first officer in an ATR. They are guaranteed 72 hours per month, but they are generally going to do more than this. They can fly up to 100 hours per month or 1,000 per year.

https://www.aviationinterviews.com/pilot/airlinepayrates.html

considering what it costs to fly between San Luis Obispo and San Francisco. I imagine they are sky high (no pun intended) elsewhere too. Also, the planes are antiquated, small and they have to shift passengers around to balance the weight. Add that anxiety on lift off to the fact that the pilot maybe doesn't have much experience and it's a nail biter all the way.

maybe this is nobodies revelation but mine, but two months ago I snuck home on a multi-legged flight that took me through Las Vegas and onto a very small plane to Fresno. My seat turned out to be at the very front of the plane next to a reserve(?) pilot and between him and the very nice attendant on her jump seat. As they were talking about their routes and work schedules, it became clear that at the very least she had to "bid" on her routes.
What a way to drive labor costs down!
perhaps the future for us all?

It really has nothing to do with their pay. It has more to do with whether they want to overnight in NYC or Little Rock, AR.