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kpete

(72,024 posts)
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 11:46 AM Feb 2014

Fox Pundit: America Should Eliminate Minimum Wage Because Switzerland Doesn't Have One

Fox Pundit Asks If America Should Eliminate Minimum Wage Because Switzerland Doesn't Have One
By Heather February 22, 2014 9:45 am



Here's how host Brenda Buttner opened the show and the response from one of their regulars, Gary B. Smith:

BUTTNER: You heard it here first, that all these calls for pay hikes will backfire and now the independent Congressional Budget Office is confirming it, predicting the president's push to hike the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour will bring a half million job losses. Gary B, that's why you're saying scrap it altogether.

SMITH: I know Brenda and before people on the left say “My gosh, that heartless Gary Smith! How can you scrap the minimum wage?” I went around and searched to see if any other developed country scrapped the minimum wage. In fact, Switzerland has no minimum wage.

Now look, it's interesting. Switzerland's unemployment rate is 3 percent, so you say, well, surely then they have a high poverty rate. No. Their poverty rate is less than half ours, at 7 percent. Ours is at about 16 percent. In fact, California, which has a higher than the $7 per hour minimum wage at $8 has a 23 percent unemployment rate.

And oh, by the way, Switzerland has the highest wealth per capita in the world. My god, if Switzerland can do it, doesn't it make sense that we should try it?

..............................

Of course no one bothered to mention that Switzerland and other countries that don't have a minimum wage don't have one because their labor unions and collective bargaining agreements contain minimum compensation clauses, so it's not needed.

more:
http://crooksandliars.com/2014/02/fox-pundit-asks-if-america-should
41 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Fox Pundit: America Should Eliminate Minimum Wage Because Switzerland Doesn't Have One (Original Post) kpete Feb 2014 OP
Only 3.50 percent of Americans should be unemployed like Switzerland jsr Feb 2014 #1
The Swiss people will vote on a national minimum wage in May. Democracyinkind Feb 2014 #2
California's current unemployment rate is 8.3% hfojvt Feb 2014 #3
Roger Ailes. Scuba Feb 2014 #6
It looks like he meant to say poverty rate starroute Feb 2014 #15
I see hfojvt Feb 2014 #16
I have lived in Switzerland and there is no poverty unless... Walk away Feb 2014 #4
So you are saying our immigration policy exboyfil Feb 2014 #5
I'm not really drawing any conclusions... Walk away Feb 2014 #37
Only partly true. Democracyinkind Feb 2014 #26
Yes, I forgot about that but you still have to live there for years... Walk away Feb 2014 #38
Agree. 9-12 years is a hell of a long time compared to other countries. Democracyinkind Feb 2014 #39
How much do the Swiss spend on the military? justgamma Feb 2014 #7
1% (4.5b) Democracyinkind Feb 2014 #27
Heck, if there were a royalty on the Swiss Army Knife it would probably pay for the entire army. okaawhatever Feb 2014 #30
Love the joke ;) Democracyinkind Feb 2014 #33
The dark-skinned Manhattan Institute guy ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #8
The Swiss Join the Fight Against Inequality ProSense Feb 2014 #9
Fox News wants to model the US after Switzerland? Martin Eden Feb 2014 #10
Hardly Cirque du So-What Feb 2014 #11
Obviously Martin Eden Feb 2014 #12
Yet Cirque du So-What Feb 2014 #13
The are vessels into which disinformation is poured Martin Eden Feb 2014 #18
Switzerland has a fantastic integrated public transportation system Retrograde Feb 2014 #14
Well since we're using Switzerland as... one_voice Feb 2014 #17
They over-turned the "stupid rock" and another pundit slithered out... Jeff In Milwaukee Feb 2014 #19
Sorry Incitatus Feb 2014 #25
Shit.... Jeff In Milwaukee Feb 2014 #32
There seem to be four jmowreader Feb 2014 #40
The message from the Right: See that minimum wage person there? Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2014 #20
Exactly BrotherIvan Feb 2014 #21
I've met some ON minimum wage..... Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2014 #22
I work in a minimum wage setting and I don't believe you. *Everyone* wants a raise. *Everyone*. El_Johns Feb 2014 #23
The ones I'm talking about are Right Wingers. You MUST know a FEW. Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2014 #28
I have no idea of the political beliefs of my coworkers except that they want raises and understand El_Johns Feb 2014 #29
It's easy to spot the Right Wingers.... Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2014 #31
Of course if the US was unionized we wouldn't need Kingofalldems Feb 2014 #24
Switzerland does well because its official languages are German, French, and Italian struggle4progress Feb 2014 #34
Does Switzerland have an army? Spirochete Feb 2014 #35
Up thread is a post about their military budget, however... reACTIONary Feb 2014 #36
Moran. What about their commie health care? catbyte Feb 2014 #41

jsr

(7,712 posts)
1. Only 3.50 percent of Americans should be unemployed like Switzerland
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 11:51 AM
Feb 2014

with a uniformly high standard of living and quality of life and universal health care.

Democracyinkind

(4,015 posts)
2. The Swiss people will vote on a national minimum wage in May.
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 11:51 AM
Feb 2014

It probably won't pass though.

Some Cantons (read: "states&quot already have one though and their rates put US rates to shame.

And yes you're absolutely right in pointing out the role of unions. the national minimal wage didn't come to a vote until now because of the (former) strength of our unions, which rendered the issue moot. But sadly that is changing / has changed.

starroute

(12,977 posts)
15. It looks like he meant to say poverty rate
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 01:47 PM
Feb 2014

Since that's what he was citing in the previous sentence.

Walk away

(9,494 posts)
4. I have lived in Switzerland and there is no poverty unless...
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 11:57 AM
Feb 2014

for some reason you decide you would like to dabble at being homeless and hungry. Everyone has a decent home. The state takes care of it and all of your needs. You really don't need a minimum wage because you always have all of the housing, food, heat, transport and care that you need if you are a Swiss citizen.

However, if you are a lower paid guest worker you are not so lucky. The conditions aren't bad but you cannot stay any longer than seasonal needs require.

You can not become a Swiss Citizen unless you marry one and even then you may not have an easy time of it. It could take many years.

exboyfil

(17,865 posts)
5. So you are saying our immigration policy
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 12:00 PM
Feb 2014

is part of the reason that our poor have a lower standard of living than Switzerland for example. It seems like a restrictive immigration policy is one way to protect your own citizens.

Democracyinkind

(4,015 posts)
26. Only partly true.
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 03:41 PM
Feb 2014

I live in Switzerland (20+years). While it's true that it isn't easy, you can become a cotizen without marrying one. The issue here is that local communities VOTE on giving citizenship - honestly ask yourself how diverese the US would be if the people would have decided whom to make a citizen. Sad but true.

(I simplified the whole naturalization process, it's complicated, but the point is that you can't become a citizen if the community you live in doesn't give its ok (which happens at the ballots).

Walk away

(9,494 posts)
38. Yes, I forgot about that but you still have to live there for years...
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 04:59 PM
Feb 2014

even if you were born there and your parents weren't Swiss citizens. My friend Yvonne's mom was Swiss, her dad was Canadian and she was born in the U.S.. She married a Swiss Citizen and had two children in Switzerland. The kids had no problems but she had to go through a lengthy process even after living there off and on for 20 years.

Democracyinkind

(4,015 posts)
39. Agree. 9-12 years is a hell of a long time compared to other countries.
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 05:40 PM
Feb 2014

There's no denying that Switzerland has a peculiar fear of "the other". One of the downsides of living in paradise...

justgamma

(3,667 posts)
7. How much do the Swiss spend on the military?
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 12:06 PM
Feb 2014

As a percentage of GDP, they probably don't come close to the US.

okaawhatever

(9,468 posts)
30. Heck, if there were a royalty on the Swiss Army Knife it would probably pay for the entire army.
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 03:51 PM
Feb 2014

Joke: Did you hear the French Army is making it's own version of the Swiss Army Knife? It has 5 different corkscrews and a
telescoping white flag.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
8. The dark-skinned Manhattan Institute guy ...
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 12:09 PM
Feb 2014

on the Melissa Harris-Perry Show used the same line of "reasoning" about Germany not having a minimum wage ... He, also, left out the fact that Germany has strong unionization and collective bargaining.

When the rest of the panel raised that point, he glibly said, "well, we have unions here ... people are choosing not to join them."

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
9. The Swiss Join the Fight Against Inequality
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 12:18 PM
Feb 2014
The Swiss Join the Fight Against Inequality

By Stephan Faris

Marilola Wili braces her foot against the wall to pull open a vault door inside a former bank building in downtown Basel. In the darkness inside, 15 tons of coins glint like dragon treasure. “It’s something everybody’s dreamed about, swimming in money,” says Wili, a waitress and musician as well as a member of Generation Basic Income. That’s an activist group trying to persuade voters to amend Switzerland’s constitution to guarantee every citizen a yearly income of 30,000 Swiss francs ($33,000)—whether they work or not.

The vault is part publicity stunt, part fundraising effort. Switzerland’s system of direct democracy offers anybody who can gather at least 100,000 signatures the chance to put a ballot initiative before the country’s voters. Wili and her comrades celebrated reaching that milestone in October by dumping 8 million coins, one for every Swiss resident, in front of the Parliament building in Bern. Wili’s chief occupation these days is to find a buyer for the five-centime coins along with the vault in which they’re displayed, as a sort of art installation. Proceeds will fund a campaign to persuade voters to approve their initiative in a referendum that will be held in two or three years.

Unease about income inequality and concerns about out-of-control capitalism are rising even in Switzerland, a nation long regarded as a business-friendly bastion—welcoming even the most questionable forms of wealth. At $80,000 per year, Switzerland’s income per capita is the third-highest in Europe after Luxembourg and Norway. But confidence in the economy was rocked at the beginning of the global financial crisis in 2008, when UBS (UBS), the nation’s largest bank, required a $60 billion government bailout. The anger and anxiety that led to demonstrations and riots in other countries have been channeled into a flurry of mostly populist referendums. “We on the right haven’t been doing our job correctly,” says Thomas Minder, a Swiss toothpaste manufacturer and politician. “Because there’s no self-regulation on the right, we basically punt the ball to the left. And maybe, sooner or later, one [goal] is going to get through.”

Early last year, Swiss voters approved an initiative championed by Minder that gives shareholders a greater say over executive pay and bans signing bonuses and golden-parachute pay packages for departing executives. In November the Swiss rejected as too extreme a proposal to cap top salaries at 12 times that of a company’s lowest-paid worker. This year, initiatives up for consideration include the introduction of a minimum wage of more than $24 an hour, a 20 percent estate and gift tax, and nationalization of basic health care.

- more -

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-01-16/inequality-fight-swiss-will-vote-on-minimum-income


Martin Eden

(12,878 posts)
10. Fox News wants to model the US after Switzerland?
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 12:43 PM
Feb 2014
Healthcare in Switzerland is universal[2] and is regulated by the Swiss Federal Law on Health Insurance. Health insurance is compulsory for all persons residing in Switzerland (within three months of taking up residence or being born in the country).[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Switzerland

Cirque du So-What

(25,993 posts)
11. Hardly
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 12:51 PM
Feb 2014

FAUX is in the business of cherry-picking factoids which support the conservative agenda while ignoring the rest.

Martin Eden

(12,878 posts)
18. The are vessels into which disinformation is poured
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 02:01 PM
Feb 2014

Watching TV is a passive experience in which the viewer is a receptacle. If a person does not engage their critical thinking skills and supplement viewing with active learning, he or she is very susceptible to the kind of propaganda Faux dishes out.

Retrograde

(10,163 posts)
14. Switzerland has a fantastic integrated public transportation system
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 01:11 PM
Feb 2014

Can we emulate that as well? What about universal male military service? National health care?

One reason unemployment is so low, I expect, is because Swiss policies on immigration and foreign workers are so harsh: unless you're born a Swiss citizen it's very hard to become one, and they didn't strike me as being the most welcoming to refugees.

one_voice

(20,043 posts)
17. Well since we're using Switzerland as...
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 01:54 PM
Feb 2014

an example, how about their universal health care, education, homelessness (lack of), retirement, etc.

Hypocrites.

Jeff In Milwaukee

(13,992 posts)
19. They over-turned the "stupid rock" and another pundit slithered out...
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 02:18 PM
Feb 2014

Just out of curiosity, what the standards to become a political consultant and Fox News?

I ask because my cat horked up a hairball this morning, and I'm wondering if the hairball might have all the requisite qualifications.

jmowreader

(50,566 posts)
40. There seem to be four
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 06:13 PM
Feb 2014

The ability to regurgitate RNC talking points from memory, a pleasant-sounding voice, arms that look great bare, and the ability to arrive at the studio three hours before work starts for indoctrination and makeup.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
20. The message from the Right: See that minimum wage person there?
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 02:34 PM
Feb 2014

HATE THEM.

THEY are the reason YOU don't get a raise.

See that person on food stamps?

HATE THEM.

THEY are the reason the government takes all of your money in taxes.

See that poor person in the waiting room at the doctor?

HATE THEM.

THEY are the reason we are losing our freedom.

See that billion dollar jet fighter?

LOVE IT.

THAT is what makes America #1.

U - S - A!!!
U - S - A!!!
U - S - A!!!
U - S - A!!!
U - S - A!!!

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
21. Exactly
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 02:52 PM
Feb 2014

But if someone is so fucking stupid they can't put two and two together and realize that raising the minimum wage--and they must know someone in their family or friends who makes that--is good for everyone, then they can't be helped. They are just too stupid.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
22. I've met some ON minimum wage.....
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 02:58 PM
Feb 2014

They are against raising it because they think it should be EARNED, not GIVEN.

The are resentful over the idea that their coworker will get a raise too because their coworker isn't like them.

They hate EVERYONE that is not like them.

You know,...an ASSHOLE.

 

El_Johns

(1,805 posts)
23. I work in a minimum wage setting and I don't believe you. *Everyone* wants a raise. *Everyone*.
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 03:16 PM
Feb 2014

And none of them are assholes, just people like everywhere else.

We walk about 40 miles a week. One of us is 67 and supporting grandchildren. You try it.

 

El_Johns

(1,805 posts)
29. I have no idea of the political beliefs of my coworkers except that they want raises and understand
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 03:45 PM
Feb 2014

they are are being used.

Kingofalldems

(38,490 posts)
24. Of course if the US was unionized we wouldn't need
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 03:17 PM
Feb 2014

a lot of things, the minimum wage would be one. With enforceable contracts we may not need OSHA either. But the 1% would never allow this to happen.

struggle4progress

(118,378 posts)
34. Switzerland does well because its official languages are German, French, and Italian
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 04:10 PM
Feb 2014

If our official languages were German, French, and Italian, we'd do pretty well too

Spirochete

(5,264 posts)
35. Does Switzerland have an army?
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 04:15 PM
Feb 2014

I suppose they do, because they have those knives, but I'll bet 1. They don't spend near the percentage of money on it, and 2. This idiot doesn't advocate emulating the Swiss in that respect.

reACTIONary

(5,788 posts)
36. Up thread is a post about their military budget, however...
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 04:52 PM
Feb 2014

... the Swiss have a very strong martial tradition. They have universal military service. I've heard stories (from my brother, an unreliable but none-the-less amusing source) of Swiss grannies being able to expertly handle military weapons.

An old Swiss army joke, supposedly a real incident that occurred in 1912:

One of the Swiss Army Divisions was holding maneuvers, and the German Kaiser and his staff attended. There were dress parades with the Kaiser and the Swiss President. The Kaiser was told that in Switzerland, they had 100,000 marksman. He asked what they would do if the Prussians sent 200,000 men. The answer: We would each have to shoot twice!

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