General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFar too many people are missing the point: This is an attempted police coverup.
Without the local police doing their utmost to cover up for Zimmerman, this would be a relatively open and shut case. Self defense has nothing to do with it; Zimmerman's actions aren't protected by self-defense laws in Florida or anywhere else in the country. But not only did the police go out of their way to avoid doing all the normal things that would have been done in other cases--drug and alcohol testing for Zimmerman, interrogation, a more robust investigation--but they also have been reinterpreting witness statements to support Zimmerman's story, as well as blankly deciding that he wouldn't be charged. That's far more than incompetence, and reaches well into the territory of deliberate coverup.
appleannie1
(5,068 posts)the world they are used to and they are going to have to learn to do things right or face the consequences. Don't get me wrong. There are a lot of good cops out there but there are a lot of Sheriff Joes as well. For the first time ever, they are being put in the spotlight.
enough
(13,262 posts)Both so terrible that there's no way to rank them in hideousness. But the coverup indicates a terrible perversion of so-called rule of law in society, which makes it extremely significant.
I hope as time goes on these two crimes will become clearly delineated, and that both will be confronted.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)BlueToTheBone
(3,747 posts)Because Zimmerman was white? Friends? Because of hatred of race difference? Zimmerman looks Hispanic. Florida is a place I will NEVER step into.
TheWraith
(24,331 posts)Either friends or family. I've seen small town police departments ignore crimes due to the perp being friends with some of the cops, but that's usually for small things: trespassing, poaching, et al. In this case, I would be guessing.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)It is a very very small town. Something is very odd. I am wondering if he was an informant.
WheelWalker
(8,956 posts)aka, "Confidential, Reliable Informant"
grasswire
(50,130 posts)....and perhaps even of other crimes of similar nature. Once again I ask the question: Are there any other missing persons in that area? Or John Does?
Something lies under the surface.
Maybe authorities don't want Zimmerman questioned? Maybe they are afraid he will cut a deal and squeal on some things he know about?
SunSeeker
(51,698 posts)That picture they keep showing of Zimmerman in all the media reports is a mug shot from when he was arrested for assault on an officer, some time before he gunned down Trayvon Martin. Yet those charges were inexplicably dropped.
BlueToTheBone
(3,747 posts)That is a BIG question.
SunSeeker
(51,698 posts)His daddy is already trying to get him out of this mess:
"The portrayal of George Zimmerman in the media, as well as the series of events that led to the tragic shooting, are false and extremely misleading," his father, a retired magistrate judge, wrote in a letter published in the Orlando Sentinel.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/22/justice/florida-teen-zimmerman/index.html
BlueToTheBone
(3,747 posts)Of course. That's why young George has no respect...daddy is right behind him cleaning up messes. Maybe Daddy can stay in an adjoining cell.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)I would think the number of strings he could pull are limited (though not non-existent.)
pangaia
(24,324 posts)The US Department of Justice had never prosecuted Bush or Cheney....
ArcticFox
(1,249 posts)To them Trayvon was just a John Doe black kid that was likely up to no good and so deserved what he got.
Easier to just sweep it under the rug.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)has something to do with it:
Opponents Of Floridas 2005 Stand Your Ground Law Predicted Racially Motivated Killings
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/21/449667/opponents-of-floridas-2005-stand-your-ground-law-predicted-racially-motivated-killings/
Little Star
(17,055 posts)librechik
(30,676 posts)finding a source for the assertion that Trayvon was shot in the chest. Early witnesses said they found Zimmerman sitting on Trayvon's back on the ground and the wound was in his back. Now it seems Zimmerman is the source--no police med examiners have come forward, apparently. Not much trustworthy info available.
Baitball Blogger
(46,758 posts)And it's not just limited to the police department in this county.
indepat
(20,899 posts)lawnmower.
Little Star
(17,055 posts)complete incompetence on the part of the police department or maybe a mixture of both.
murray hill farm
(3,650 posts)The police just "took Zimmermans word" that his record was squeeky clean..and only when the pressure was put on and it was investigated by the media, was it revealed that this was not true. The Sanford police said that Mr. Zimmerman had a License to carry, but when media asked for state confirmation of this, the state licensing could neither confirm or deny that this was the case. It may well be..and probably is the case that the police just took Zimmerman's word for it that he had such a license. Carrying a gun on ones person without a license to carry is a 3rd degree felony in the state of Florida with a maximum 5 yr sentence.
I have a license to carry, but I know that if I shoot and kill another person that the police will take my gun from me when they arrive on the scene and will hold it until until the incident is investigated and resolved. I don't believe for a second that Zimmerman had a license to carry and that, in time this will be another part of that cover up.
krispos42
(49,445 posts)And if he wasn't carrying his permit on him, that's probably some kind of crime as well.
murray hill farm
(3,650 posts)I am required to carry my License to carry card (it is like a drivers license..even the same picture is used from your driver's license) with me at all times...even if I am not carrying. I am required to keep my hands on the wheel of my vehicle and in sight if I am stopped for a traffic incident...and to inform the officer that I have a license to carry and that I am not carrying at that time...or if I am carrying to inform the officer where the gun is concealed in the vehicle. The gun must be concealed. It cannot be left sitting on the car seat, it cannot be worn on your body in any way that can be seen, it cannot be carried around ready to shoot, etc. It is only valid for 5 years from the date it was issued and then the whole application process must be repeated including background check and field test. It is not an easy process and the background check is extensive. One sure way to not be able to to obtain a license to carry is to have an injunction for domestic violence in ones background. I doubt very much that Zimmerman had anything resembling a recent and valid license to carry. If the police did not see his license on him, they needed to arrest him then. If they did not see it, but took his word that he had one, they probably would do all that they can do to keep that from coming to light.
yardwork
(61,709 posts)That would be big.
Kennah
(14,315 posts)... but license or no license it does not change the odious smell in the case that seems to clearly point to a murder indictment.
murray hill farm
(3,650 posts)If he did have a license, a whole different shitstorm for the state of Florida!
Kennah
(14,315 posts)... and the partial police reports indicate he had a license.
obxhead
(8,434 posts)They didn't even bring him in for questioning because doing so would have forced them to make a formal arrest after even mild questioning.
The sheriff, PA, and responding officers should all be arrested for aiding and abetting as well imo.
Historic NY
(37,453 posts)its seems this dept. has a general course of business if your black in Sanford
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)A little of both, if you will.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)but I do think it is an extremely important point.
yardwork
(61,709 posts)Which is why I am worried that the grand jury investigation will lead to nothing. This case needs an independent prosecutor.
krispos42
(49,445 posts)It's so much sexier. Even though, assuming Zimmerman was the instigator, the SYG laws would not protect him from being prosecuted for the shooting.
bluedigger
(17,087 posts)Either the responding officers are totally incompetent, and the chief was just trying to save face and didn't expect the attention, or...
Zimmerman and the Sanford police had an ongoing relationship, i.e. he was an informant, and they were actively trying to protect him from the start.
Sanford is a town of 53K in a county of 422K.
Sanford is 30% African American, Seminole County is 11% African American, and maybe they just don't like "that kind" in Seminole County.
Maybe Trayvon Martin was banging the white daughter of a city council member.
Maybe Trayvon Martin got jumped by the third cousin of George Zimmerman a few months back, Trayvon Martin kicked his ass, and this was payback.
Maybe Trayvon Martin saw the son of a Sanford police captain dealing meth and turned him in.
There are probably any number of reasons for the seemingly aberrant behavior by the Sanford PD.
bluedigger
(17,087 posts)There are two likely possibilities and an infinite number of far-fetched fantasies.
Kennah
(14,315 posts)CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)ecstatic
(32,731 posts)Maybe they do stellar work when the victims are white. I don't think it's incompetence, or even a cover up. I think it's race based apathy on their part.
thecrow
(5,519 posts)and his parents weren't notified?
They can't figure out how to check the numbers on his cell phone?
His mother must have been sick with worry.
SmellyFeet
(162 posts)most people are so outraged?
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)I'm just going to savor the moment of agreeing with you, TW. It doesn't often happen. Thanks for the living reminder that we're actually on the same side, in many significant ways.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)But TW is right in this instance. I don't think "Blame the Police" should be out there wholesale. This was "Blame Zimmerman", police covered for him, now "Blame the Police for not investigating further".
It's nuanced, but the police are no less culpable for an inept investigation of a homicide.
And by Blame, I mean point the finger at the responsible targets, then people pointing pretend fingers at daisies and saying, OH, You Point the Finger Everywhere" facetiously kind of logic.
If people are pointing the finger at Sanford Police and Zimmerman, they have DAMN good reason to do so, and there needs to be a thorough investigation.
This idea that Zimmerman was just an innocent citizen doing his duty and that Sanford police did due diligence is horse shit.
Iggo
(47,565 posts)They just got caught.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)That is exactly what happened, and a young man died. They are trying to circle the wagons when it is by the actions of a person they are protecting that this young man died. I'm not anti-police. I am glad to have them when they are needed.
This wasn't the police's fault, though, UNTIL they started protecting Zimmerman. Then they became culpable because they refused to do the right thing.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)What Zimmerman did was appalling enough - and when convicted I hope he spends the rest of his days in the Crowbar Hilton. What the cops have done to try to cover for Zimmerman and paper the whole thing over is another set of heinous crimes in their own right. I hope all involved wind up in the slammer.
Uncle Joe
(58,420 posts)Thanks for the thread, TheWraith.
crunch60
(1,412 posts)obviously wanted and needed to become a dangerous vigilante. Comprehensive weapons training, which obviously he did not have. teaches you not only "when to shoot" but more importantly, when "Not to shoot".
This shooting and consequent murder, given all the evidence at hand, was not justifable or accidental.
I hope this law is overturned and the FBI does a thorough investigation of this travesty of justice.
1monster
(11,012 posts)Gregorian
(23,867 posts)This is all about trying to keep people from seeing one of the laws that was not only unnecessary, but insightfultowards this kind of event. They're trying to keep it alive. It should never have been put into effect.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)George Zimmerman, was not arrested due to his claim that the murder was in self defense. Lee cited the attention drawn to him as a distraction to the case as his reason for stepping down.
City commissioners issued a vote of no confidence on Wednesday. Mayor Jeff Triplett has said he thinks it is time for the police chief to go.
The department is coming under fire for some false statements made to the Martins parents. They also allegedly tested Martin for drugs and alcohol after his death, but failed to do so with Zimmerman.
Police originally told Martins parents that Zimmerman had a clean record. That information has turned out to be false. In 2005 a woman accused Zimmerman of domestic violence and had an injunction filed against him. The month prior he had been arrested for shoving a police officer at a bar near the University of Central Florida.
Zimmermans prior records seem to indicate an aggressive and potentially violent man. Given the accounts of what happened the night Trayvon Martin was murdered, a pattern of behavior can be discerned. Zimmerman followed the boy even after 911 dispatchers told him not to. He continued following after the boy started to run away. He was looking for trouble.
DearAbby
(12,461 posts)SunSeeker
(51,698 posts)Zimmerman was previously arrested for assaulting an officer. As I learned on Rachel Maddow, it's where that ubiquitous faceshot of him in the orange jumpsuit comes from.
Apparently he shoved a police officer at a bar near the University of Central Florida in 2005. Then, a month later, a woman accused Zimmerman of domestic violence and had an injunction filed against him.
http://www.northmobilepost.com/tag/george-zimmerman-arrested/
Ok, it is a disgusting fact that beating up on a woman in this country doesn't always land you in jail , but since when is shoving a cop ever blown off?
patricia92243
(12,601 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)The history of the SPD points to an even more dysfunctional department than OPD.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)OOPPSS !!