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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRallying around the wrong president
By Steve Benen
Ive been fascinated of late by Republican praise of Russian President Vladimir Putin, but as Rachel noted on the show last night, Rudy Giuliani appears to have taken this affection to a new level. For those who cant watch clips online, heres the former mayor talking to Foxs Neil Cavuto yesterday.
GIULIANI: Putin decides what he wants to do and he does it in half a day, right? He decided he had to go to their parliament. He went to their parliament. He got permission in 15 minutes.
CAVUTO: Well, that was kind of like perfunctory.
GIULIANI: But he makes a decision and he executes it, quickly. Then everybody reacts. Thats what you call a leader. President Obama, hes got to think about it. Hes got to go over it again. Hes got to talk to more people about it.
Its not unusual, during a time of crisis, for Americans to rally behind a president. In Giulianis case, the trouble is the New York Republican appears to be rallying behind the wrong president.
That said, its nevertheless important to appreciate the fact that, in Giulianis mind, the mark of an effective leader is seen in someone who acts unilaterally, invades a country, and doesnt stop to think too much about it. Real leaders, the argument goes, simply act then watch as everybody reacts.
But heres the follow-up question for Giuliani and other conservatives swooning over Putin: if President Obama did act that way, wouldnt you be calling him a lawless, out-of-control tyrant?
Weve talked many times about the underlying contradictions embraced by Obamas detractors. The presidents critics have presented two competing caricatures, both of which are wrong, but more importantly, both of which incongruous.
- more -
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/rallying-around-the-wrong-president
They already call President Obama a "lawless, out-of-control tyrant" because of Obamacare. Republicans are warmongering morons.
spanone
(135,847 posts)how dare the President 'think' about this situation.
ellenfl
(8,660 posts)BeyondGeography
(39,376 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)Julie, as we sometimes refer to him when we aren't calling him a self-obsessed slimeball,, is one of the biggest embarrassments to our state in the last 50 years.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Funny, tho, Putin seems to be a peacenik.
Russia's last invasion was 20-30 years ago.
The US has invaded about 5 times in the last few years.
They are just trying to push Obama into reacting. Obama is too cool for that.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)And his support for the al assad regime shows real "peacenik tendencies.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,322 posts)Chechnyans caught in the crossfire
In 2006 Daniel J Gerstle went to Russia's North Caucasus region to work as an aidworker. He describes how a settlement camp for displaced families was attacked by Russian security forces; he also describes his difficulties in alleviating the plight of local families whose needs came second to national security
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/dec/24/chechnya-russia
Ten years ago, on Sept. 20, 2001, President George W. Bush announced for the first time that in response to the terrorist attacks of 9/11 the U.S. was starting a "war on terror," and he asked every nation to help. Four days later, against the advice of many of his generals, Russian President Vladimir Putin agreed, creating a bond unlike any the U.S. and Russia had built since World War II. But as with many of the unlikely relationships the U.S. formed after 9/11, the reasoning behind this one was not just solidarity or common cause. Countries around the world realized the practical appeal of a war on terrorism. Over the past ten years, it has become a seemingly permanent call to arms, a kind of incantation used to dodge questions, build alliances and justify the use of force. No one, not even Bush, grasped this as quickly as Putin.
Even before Putin became Russia's President in early 2000, and long before the Twin Towers fell, he had invoked the idea of a war against global terrorism to justify Russia's war in Chechnya. The terrorism aspect, at least, was true. Chechen separatists, who renewed their centuries-old struggle for independence soon after the Soviet Union fell, had resorted to terrorism as early as 1995, when they seized a hospital in the Russian town of Budyonnovsk and held more than 1,500 people hostage. Then in 1999, a series of apartment bombings, also blamed on the Chechens, killed hundreds of people in Moscow and other Russian cities. Putin responded by launching Russia's second full-scale invasion of Chechnya in less than a decade. "He received carte blanche from the citizens of Russia," says Mikhail Kasyanov, who was Russia's Finance Minister at the time. "They simply closed their eyes and let him do whatever he wanted as long as he saved them from this threat."
There was scant evidence, however, that the Chechen rebels were part of some global Islamist terrorist network, as Putin and his government repeatedly claimed. The leader of the separatists at the time was Aslan Maskhadov, a former Red Army colonel who was closer to communism than Islamism, and there was no proof that he received much help from abroad. "Still, all official statements said that we are fighting a war against international terror," says Andrei Illarionov, who served as Putin's senior economic adviser between 2000 and '05. "Of course, nobody outside Russia bought it." In the West, Putin's war in Chechnya thus enjoyed little sympathy. The Chechen conflict was seen as part of a rebellion that Moscow was trying to crush, and the atrocities allegedly committed by both sides earned widespread condemnation.
...
By the summer of 2000, Russia had defeated the Chechen separatists and installed a puppet government led by the Kadyrov family, a Chechen clan loyal to the Kremlin. But claims of wholesale violations of human rights, including torture and extrajudicial killings, continued to surface as the Kadyrovs consolidated power in Chechnya. The need to remind the world that Russia was still fighting the war on terrorism remained, and Putin began to claim ever stronger links between Chechen rebels and the global jihad.
http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2093529,00.html
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Russia has invaded Georgia, Crimea, repeatedly flattened Grozny, and armed a dictator slaughtering his own people. Those aren't the actions of a peacenik.
tridim
(45,358 posts)It's obvious now.
He did the same thing to many formerly intelligent DU'ers.
These clowns who all love Putin's leadership and vision so much are more than welcome to emigrate...
JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)They already call President Obama a "lawless, out-of-control tyrant" because of Obamacare. Republicans are warmongering morons.
And the author of the piece is correct as well. If Obama had acted unilaterally - they WOULD say he is lawless and out of control!
We can't win with these people - and by we . . . regardless of where every day unelected official democrats stand on this issue (see the discussions here this weekend) - we ourselves like to turn things over and peel back the layers of the onion before jumping in feet first. It would make sense the man we voted for behaves that way -
But keep in mind - those across the spectrum from moderate to far left - have an overwhelming need for things to make sense.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)"Obama is a weak, stuck up, foolish, cowardly you-know-what who is worse than Carter". Every story, no matter what, must fit that narrative.
So far Obama has risen above it all and done what he must do to try and resolve conflicts the right way. I swear the earth would be a smoking blackened sphere if these insane repubs had their way.
rurallib
(62,428 posts)and enjoy some of that strong leadership you so desperately crave.
Take Johnny the fly-boy and lady Lindsey with you , please
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)with the Orthodox Church, authoritarian, and militaristic.
EC
(12,287 posts)what do you think would happen if President Obama made a quick decission and asked Congress to go along with it?
Yeah,they wouldn't do shit, would it...so how is this the President's fault that he's not a dictator? Is that what you want? You seem to like to accuse him of being one, so I'm sure you'd really get off on him really acting like one, wouldn't you?
chrisa
(4,524 posts)warrior1
(12,325 posts)and it isn't red, white and blue.
sheshe2
(83,796 posts)Jump before you Think, oh wait...
Puglover
(16,380 posts)night when reporting on this was utterly priceless. We replayed it like 3 times.
Oh BTW. I recced your OP cause it's a good one.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)TomClash
(11,344 posts)Giuliani prefers leaders who act before they think.
Where have we seen this show before? What could go wrong?
BumRushDaShow
(129,157 posts)and the M$M are contributors to and enablers of this Mr. Hyde - Mr. Hyde, Jr. nonsensical framing and refuse to point out the idiocies of the absurd assertions.
If anything, the fact that these clueless former elected officials and their minons still in office, continue to gloss over the fact that Putin is the very "Commie" that they rail against, is telling. But then again, they have so distorted the terms "Marxist", "Communist", "Fascist", "Socialist", etc., that rely on the confusion among their base and the M$M to perpetuate their fraud.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Where have I heard this before? ...
On yeah ...
(The source of the term is a quotation in an October 17, 2004, The New York Times Magazine article by writer Ron Suskind, quoting an unnamed aide to George W. Bush (later attributed to Karl Rove[1])
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,416 posts)Thought of that one too. Anybody seen Rove lately?
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)Whom are the Players here. Kerry has a state department full of intrenched Bush appointees who were Moled in before he left office. We have a couple of Billionaires and NGO's players stirring the pot in the Ukraine. It's all about the Oil and Gas and Rare Earth metals. Know one cares one spittle about the average Ukrainian. Bottom line,they got the money and that is what the 1%ers want.
Ukraine is the Bread Basket of Europe. Check out witch U.S. companies who have huge operations in the Ukraine. Cargill-Mosaic and other big Ag Co's. Just like the Banana Revolutions in Latin America. Worlds largest Ethanol Plant built is in the Ukraine and was built by a Midwestern Company.
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)Also->
He pissed off too many people (the real reason why he dropped out of the Senate race) and left the city with a 4 billion dollar deficit (this was during the massive economic expansion of the 90's).
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,416 posts)And it is...........Russia. Oh, irony of ironies.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)He needs to get a proper feel before he opens his mouth. He jumped out in defense of Christie and then completely threw Christie under the bus. Who knows where he will be in a few days
Cha
(297,339 posts)fishwax
(29,149 posts)yeah, that sums it up nicely