He can't be trusted with them, it seems.

but the fool just hit his leg...


I think he doesn't need to play with guns anymore

to know whether the gun was loaded or not while he was teaching his friend how to clean it?

He was definitely dangerous and needed to be shot. After all he had just shot a teenage girl.

Once again, you CANNOT "accidentally" shoot yourself while cleaning a firearm. You can only shoot yourself by reckless negligence.

Instructions for cleaning a gun:

Step 1 - Engage the safety

Step 2 - Remove any live ammunition from the weapon.

Those are the first two steps to cleaning any firearm. If you follow those two steps you CANNOT shoot yourself or anyone else (this is assuming you are using a properly manufactured firearm, and not a zip gun turned out in a jail cell).

"The gun went off while I was cleaning it." is a "The dog ate my homework" excuse. It is invoked when you did something stupid instead of what you were supposed to do.

What "The gun went off while I was cleaning it." really means is "I was playing with a loaded gun without a single regard for anyone's safety."

What kind of lesson/punishment is that for stupidity? No common sense...should never be teaching anyone anything about gun safety...and shouldn't he, at least be charged with her medical bill????

....who shoots a black kid, then kills himself immediately, leaving just enough time to leave a message to his widow/best friend/brother saying he killed himself because he knew he's be persecuted by the corrupt judges/librul media/angry blacks.

I hope the family of the 12 year old sues his ass. On what planet is it Ok to just "accidentally" shoot someone with no penalties?

Do weapons really just accidentally discharge? I think not.

fuck the NRA

charge the gun owner! If I were the father I would prepare some flyers warning people of this neighbor and posting them all over the neighborhood. The police certainly are not protecting this neighborhood.

And should.

he is worth. It is sad that people have to resort to civil court to obtain any justice because the justice system won't protect us.

It probably wouldn't in a self-defense case, but would for an accidental shooting.

But as for "justice"? Well... if you shoot my little girl in the arm, I might decide that shooting you in the leg was "justice" - and he's already done that for them.

This is a fucked up country.

He broke one of those gun rules not once but twice.

Is it advisable to clean a gun with at least two rounds in the weapon?

I can see maybe having a round chambered and not realizing it, but two? That means it was loaded, and who the fuck cleans a loaded gun? Aside from someone who is clearly too stupid to be allowed to own guns at all, that is.

who'd look down the barrel to see if it's loaded.

I will be cleaning a pistol later today

My process:
-unload the gun (it should already unloaded)
-get cleaning gear
-check gun is unloaded
-set up table for cleaning
-check gun is unloaded
-disassemble and clean gun
-reassemble
-check gun is unloaded
-function test
-take gun to storage
-check gun is unloaded
-lock gun up
-put everything away

I wonder if he'd been drinking? The article doesn't say.

Quite the marksman.

he should be charged and loose possession...

It's 'cleaning' guns that kills people. Ever notice how many people are killed by someone 'cleaning' their gun?
I have a great business idea. I want to start a gun cleaning business. Hey, all you 'responsible' gun owners that keep shooting yourself in the leg while 'cleaning' your gun! Bring it to me, I'll only charge you $500. You'll save money in the long run in medical bills and lawsuits.

also, teaching gun safety seems to be another dangerous activity.

One cannot clean a gun thoroughly if it is loaded. Whenever I hear or read of someone claiming he was cleaning his gun when it discharged I think he was screwing around with it and it went off. Rather than tell the police he was "screwing around with it" he simply says something about cleaning it.

I've had guns for 35 years and never cleaned them while loaded. It simply cannot be done!...

and I fear these idiots fail the part of ALWAYS ASSUME A GUN IS LOADED!

But after you unload it and break it apart, it is pretty much impossible to fire it. So there might be something to what you say.

This idiot managed to do this twice, which means he had to in order.

not have a safety on...

pull the trigger twice, with rounds in either a magazine or likely the first one already chambered.

So how he managed to do that when the gun was being cleaned, is a mystery to me. Unless he was (not successfully mind you) in the process of safely unloading his gun. He did unload it, but in an unsafe manner.

If looking for an every day corollary, how about this - I can't clean the pasta pot unless I take the pasta out first.

I think you're right, and I'll keep this in mind when I hear of people using this excuse.

He needs to go to jail for 20 to 60 years.

literally 250 feet away.
The neighborhood is going nuts because the police are vacillating on charging him. Likely violation would be Unlawful discharge of a firearm. No one can understand why...or who he knows in the PD. Very frustrating.

If I ran a stop sign and injured another person, I would be charged with "Failure to Yield" immediately, thus creating a clear path of responsibility, and held liable for injuries.

I too hope he gets his ass handed to him in a civil negligence suit, although I don't think they are wealthy people.

If I were in your neighborhood I would also be super curious in why there's any question about charging him and super nervous about having a police department like that. Even if he's let off eventually, how can there be a question about charging him?

I have an email letter in to my city commissioner asking him not to let up on the Police Chief on this one.

I don't know them too well. The alleged suspect is the father, and he doesn't speak a lot of English. Other than that, they have loud parties around holidays (Christmas Eve, NY Eve, and 4th of July.) But otherwise pretty quiet...keep their home up well.

I wrote my City Commissioner asking that he stay abreast of this travesty.

Here's his response:

"Thank you for reaching out to Commissioner Gray with your concerns. Commissioner Gray asked me to reach out to you in an effort to keep you abreast. Shortly after the incident occurred, Commissioner Gray and I were in communication discussing the incident and we are all very concerned. Unfortunately, in order to file charges on this type of incident, we need a victim who desires prosecution. Please understand that our mission is to keep Orlando a safe city by reducing crime and maintaining livable neighborhoods. As of this moment, we do not have a victim who desires prosecution. That may change down the road as the case is still under review. Please feel free to reach out with any further questions you may have. Thank you."

She (or her family) may decide not to press charges about her injury, but the dude still used his gun in an unsafe manner, and that's a matter of public safety. How frustrating that the neighbors can't press charges relating to his creating an unsafe environment.

In criminal matters, the legal victim is the state and the injured parties are mere witnesses (who can be subpoenaed to testify, even if they would not otherwise be inclined to press charges).

this is just crazy.

The gun was in the right to SYG.

This is like the fifth or sixth "accidental" shooting" story this week involving gun-cleaning.

CHRIST.

I'm not a gun-owner, and even I know this.

I think KansDem is right.

I have never had a day go that bad.

ALWAYS assume they are loaded

NEVER aim them at anything you do not intend to shoot, as a joke or accidentally

And again

ALWAYS ASSUME A GUN IS LOADED. Treat is as such.

I think I may have first seen this here at DU. It shouldn't be funny, but it is.

This is my generic response to gun threads. For the record, I grew up in the South and on military bases. I was taught about firearms as a child, and I grew up hunting, was a member of the NRA, and I still own guns. In the 70’s, I dropped out of the NRA because they become more radical and less interested in safety and training. Some personal experiences where people I know were involved in shootings caused me to realize that anyone could obtain and posses a gun no matter how illogical it was for them to have a gun. Also, easy access to more powerful guns, guns in the hands of children, and guns that weren’t secured are out of control in our society. As such, here’s what I now think should the requirements to possess a gun. I’m not debating the legal language, I just think it’s the reasonable way to stop the shootings. Notice, none of this restricts the type of guns sold. This is aimed at the people who shoot others, because it’s clear that they should never have had a gun.

1.) Anyone in possession of a gun (whether they own it or not) should have a renewable license.
2.) To get a license, they should have a background check, and be examined by a professional for emotional and mental stability appropriate for gun possession. It might be appropriate to require that examination to be accompanied by references from family, friends, employers, etc.
3.) To get the license, you should be required to take a safety course and pass a test appropriate to the type of gun you want to use.
4.) To get a license, you should be over 21. Under 21, you could only use a gun under direct supervision of a licensed person and after obtaining a learner’s license. Your license might be restricted if you have children or criminals or other unsafe people living in your home.
5.) If you possess a gun, you would have to carry a liability policy insurance policy specifically for gun ownership - and likely you would have to provide proof of appropriate storage, security, and whatever statistical reasons that emerge that would drive the costs and ability to get insurance.
6.) You could not purchase a gun or ammunition without a license, and purchases would have a waiting period.
7.) If you possess a gun without a license, you go to jail, the gun is impounded, and a judge will have to let you go (just like a DUI).
8.) No one should carry an unsecured gun (except in a locked case, unloaded) outside of home or when transporting it to a shooting event without demonstrating a special need. Their license should indicate training and circumstances beyond recreational shooting (security guard, etc.).
9.) All guns should be registered. If you buy, sell, give away, inherit, or the gun changes hands by any other transaction, the registration should be recorded. Ammunition should be tagged.
10.) If you accidentally discharge your gun, commit a crime, get referred by a mental health professional, etc., you should lose your license and guns until reinstated by a serious relicensing process (if ever).

Most of you know that a license is no big deal. Besides a driver’s license you need a license to fish, rent scuba equipment, operate a boat, or many other activities. I realize these differ by state, but that is not a reason to let anyone without a bit of sense pack a semiautomatic weapon in public, on the roads, and in schools. I think we need to make it much harder for some people to have guns.

How about number 11 - the type of owner identification that allow only the owner to fire the weapon (not a gun owner or afficianado, so I do not know the proper term for this technology, but have seen it discussed).

any type of appropriate security from all the loose guns.

Your right, some new guns would have a finger print in order to operate.

that term is the most obvious oxymoron, sort of like "clean coal"

Ventura Santos Mateo, 60, was in his garage teaching a friend how NOT to clean his gun.

The FIRST THING anyone should teach is "When you pick up ANY GUN, THE FIRST THING YOU DO IS MAKE SURE IT'S not loaded!!!

My husband taught me that when we first met back in the 1950's. It doesn't matter who owns it, or who handed it to you, you still double check to make sure.

If that was hammered home to all gun owners and purchasers, there wouldn't be accidents like this.

had his grandchild got hold of Drano and drank it this guy would be trying to scrape together bail.

and his guns and any association with them should be halted immediately.

Put him on 10 years probation with community service in a trauma center where bullet wounds are common.

Mayby he won't be so "nervously surprised" again.

fucking idiot with at gun, it never stops down here.

safety first.


I suppose he was used to cleaning glocks...