Those born with attractive features have many privileges - I fully recognize that.

And it takes so many more diverse forms.

For example, there was a sit-com with Matthew Perry recently. I think it was called "Move On" or something like that. There was a woman in his support group whom I found very attractive. Now she wasn't pretty, beautiful, cute, or any of those things. She was well-dressed, wore glasses, and was a little severe-looking. but I found her attractive because she was well-dressed, well-groomed, intelligent, and had a strong personality. (also, she had nice legs.)

'Pretty' is vague, poorly defined and entirely subjective.

Great beauty and great wealth transcend both race and gender.

Either one...

But yes, wealth buys privilege regardless of where it comes from.

but no. Trayvon Martin was a very attractive young man, but he was still considered scary enough to shoot, and scary enough that a jury thought it was reasonable to shoot him. His attractiveness didn't help him. Black seems to equal scary more than attractive seems to give privilege.

Mitch McConnell looks like a fucking turtle but he still made it to the Senate

His opponents must have been hideous. /sarc

But mostly, they get away with flimsy-in-the-looks if they're male. If you're female, on the other hand, you're SUNK.

White privilege, class privilege, and male privilege are greater. And able-body privilege. Maybe others.

I don't think she is going to respond anyway

you've got wealth/class privilege, and maybe some health issues or something as well. Who is the person in the second photo? I think he's dealing with some problems that are relevant to any comparison.

Pretty privilege exists but it is not greater than other privileges.

And what about attractive young black men who are assumed to be dangerous without anyone knowing them? Why does their attractiveness not help them?

than an ugly white man



I'm sure if you ask 100 people at least 80% would answer the same

black men have a very hard time finding work compared to white men, and black men are assumed to be suspicious where white men aren't nearly as much. Being attractive doesn't save them from that.

White men with criminal records have a better chance of getting a job than black men with no criminal record. Google it.

That is easy to say for a white person.

went to Galveston over the weekend,


Maybe some black males can answer that question for you


rather be an-

attractive black man, or ugly white man
(keeping the same brain you have of course )

than the man. But it can be said I would not know what I was getting into exactly.

As a black man, you get the shitty schools that most black males go to. You live in the same neighborhood, with the same violence. You might get lucky and be born to a middle class or upper middle class family, but chances of that are less than to those born white. Also you're ignoring the fact that skin color itself is linked to perceptions of beauty. I posted a video by Luptia Nyong'o below, which you clearly didn't watch.

Also, depending on your age, you might have been educated before desegregation, which means you would have grown up going to a super shitty school and have been prohibited from entrance into many institutions of higher education and from many jobs.

...largely depend on which 100 people you asked.

Because your chances of living in poverty, being the victim of violence, and going to prison would be much greater.
I have trouble to believe you are being honest at all here. Your argument is so completely absurd.

He was very handsome, as was Jordan.

Do you think that if Trayvon had been walking down the sidewalk in a suit and tie and carrying a bible, would his tragic death still have occurred?

Maybe he was an athiest, like me.
I'd be screwed if I were a man. No bible, no suit, no god.

If he were walking down the street in a suit and tie with library books in his hand. Do you think George Zimmerman would still have been able to convince a jury or anyone for that matter- that he was justified in killing that young man?

But yes, it is sad that people are taught to equate ones appearance to one's value as human beings.

Sadly I do.

I think he could have been wearing a boys scout uniform and they would have let George go.

From what he had always told me about his hometown of Plain Dealing and Shreveport LA. he could have never convinced me that it would be safe for either of us if we traveled together there. Your comment sadly reinforces my belief.

That would be scary. My mom even had problems in Cali while walking around with her white husband. He got picked on worse than her.

Sometimes there would be stares, but me being a person who possess a glare that can be fatal, no one ever, ever dared say anything to us.

I would have to say though, what bothered me most is when I would speak up. For example we were in a toys r us once in line to check out. The woman in front of us was not asked for her ID when she made her purchase, but my husband was when it was his turn at the register. Well, I blew a gasket, demanded an explanation and requested that the cashier get her manager over asap. My husband about dragged me out of that store. '

I just never understood why he was willing to tolerate that sort of subtle racism.

My stepdad use to get furious when he noticed people watching us in the store, and one time I was told not to come inside anymore unless he was with me ( he was waiting in the car) so that I didn't steal. He took me straight back in there and cussed the whole entire staff out, they felt stupid since he was manager at another location. I felt bad for him getting so angry at something I was used to. Poor guy took it worse that we did. If we made a scene every time we got treated lesser than, we'd be screaming all day every day.

The cashiers kid was the one who was stealing, and she very well knew it. She put him up to it, he apologized later for her blaming me. They were poor, but I was black so it was easier for the adults to blame me than to admit they hired a thief. That's the way things go sometimes. I always felt bad for that kid, white supremacist parents, making him steal, called him names questioning his sexual orientation. He ended up with his grandparents the next year and they didn't mind his little boyfriend hanging out or the fact that he preferred art to thievery and they were sweet to me. I hope he did okay. He was nice.

convince the jury no matter what Trayvon Martin had been wearing as well. Young black men who are dressed down are stereotyped as "thugs" and young black men who are dressed up are stereotyped as "pimps." GZ would likely have exchanged one stereotype for the other.

I agree. He would have been a thug-pimp trolling for new workers or something.

without being seen as a threat.

I feel sure my white brother, or my white nephew who is not far from how old Trayvon was, also could have walked down the street wearing a hoodie and been considered non-threatening.

If young black men have to wear suits and ties and carry Bibles to be seen as non-threatening, then it's obvious how great a thing white privilege is.

It's something I've been curious about. I often feel that I am treated differently depending on my appearance. What I'm talking about, is mostly how I'm dressed. For example, when I go out with no make up, hair in a pony tail and sweats and tennis shoes on. I'm pretty much non existent unless I walk into an upscale place dressed like that, then I'm followed around like I'm going to steal something. Now when I do my hair, makeup and put on nice clothes, I get a lot more smiles and doors opened for me.

And I was really just wondering if anyone thought that there could have been a different outcome if GZ hadn't been taught to mispercieve people because of their appearance?

I'm almost always in a t-shirt or sweatshirt, jeans, an da ponytail, and I don't wear makeup. It makes no difference for me. I'm always treated like a valued customer.

Yes it would have made a huge difference if GZ hadn't been taught to make assumptions based on appearance, but our whole society teachers this. It's not just his parents who taught it. It's woven into our society and hard to unteach. But talking about it is the antidote so yay for talking about it!

Course, too pretty is also your doom.

People can get good attention for being pretty, or bad attention. And people can be dismissed as "not serious" for being pretty as well.

And how people generally treat the attractive versus the unattractive.

I'm probably a more attractive woman (having modeled in print and commercials when I was younger - jokes about men crossing rooms to meet me and having lots of chemistry with me but I rarely have it with them ) -

I just don't buy it.

I don't think that I've had all of these opportunities that other people haven't had because I've got big boobs, ly perfect teeth and a cookie cutter nose.

I don't buy it.


And this is a lesson - if you read the AA group - you can find pics of me there. You can also understand why I'm digging in my heels on this one.

Being attractive might well be the greatest gift of all, and if you are an attractive and even moderately wealthy white woman it simply does not get any better. This even applies to children. But your mileage may vary.

In that men can be afraid to approach you, and women may block you from working.

You don't have to buy it. Studies have repeatedly shown that their is a "plainness penalty" and "beauty premium."

Personally, I experienced it first hand in my home. When I was 16, while other girls were getting asked to the prom, I had my first and only apology from my father. He said he was sorry, that it was his fault my face was so ugly, that nobody would ever want to marry me I was so ugly. He walked away shaking his head and muttering, "I don't know what we're going to do about MT. She's so ugly nobody is ever going to marry her." It was bad enough to be called ugly and made fun of by classmates; if you think it wasn't devastating to be told that by my father, I'm here to say you are quite wrong about that.


https://www.stlouisfed.org/publications/re/articles/?id=362

http://www2.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/reallife/story.html?id=f459060d-8560-455d-84b9-3c9298b9a1ec

http://www.smh.com.au/executive-style/management/good-looks-bring-a-handsome-return--32000-a-year-20130106-2cb65.html

http://www.miami.edu/index.php/features/silver_meets_silicon/

I had a similar experience with my dad, and classmates too of course. Just wanted to say I really empathize with you.

Not just Americans.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

would be filled with attractive people,along with our corporate CEOs and the powerful people behind the scenes in Hollywood. The only thing the majority of powerful people in the U.S. have in common is being white and male.

It's so blatantly obvious.

This




or this

That man in your second photo could very well be the one who says something stupid when encountering a white couple carrying a dark skinned baby in a baby carrier. Drunk on his ass, he's likely to say "Isn't Jefferson Davis still president?"

And the white patrons around him won't say one damn thing to that drunken asshole.

That's white privilege. And it's got nothing to do with how cute that man is, or how adorable the baby in the carrier is.

of trimming on his facial hair to clean it up, not to mention dumping the overalls, I can guarantee that plenty of women in his age range (and I'm sure some guys as well) would find him to be pretty attractive.

As for the young woman, she's absolutely beautiful, but I would also guess that a certain segment of men would not consider approaching her due to their own inherent racism, or just considering the idea of "What would Mom & Dad think if I brought her home to meet them?"

he would have an advantage over her most of the times from getting a job to finding housing.

Attractiveness is like being born in the middle class - it's a boon, but not to big of one, it's easily lost, and while it gives you a benefit when it comes to education, jobs, finding partners, it doesn't give you real power. Race, class, gender is much more powerful when it comes to having a real say in society.

In fact, attractiveness can be a double-edged sword, especially for women, but very few of those claiming beauty is the greatest privilege will actually listen to the experiences of beautiful women - they don't listen to people of color or to the experiences of women, after all.

You could make an argument that all other barriers and shortcomings vanish if you're pretty.

Pretty can inspire others to leap to one's defense, but rich can buy armies. Pretty ones, even.

who don't get this simple concept aren't ever going to get it.

Yet it touches all of us daily, in that it steals from us.

In social contexts, pretty can probably seem overwhelming.

And have a hand in defining what is and what isn't pretty.

unless the person is wealthy and wants to play it off as trivial.

Someone actually posting in an OP of mine and then being nice enough to say they are trashing it!


You ROCK!

:cheers:

I have a pretty nice gut thats taken me years to perfect.... a pretty bald head (shaved but still).... and a pretty quiet personality... none of which has helped me be privileged.

And thus becoming noticeably more attractive to the opposite sex.

I fail to see how that is a problem, and I don't consider the result a privilege. It was two years of incredibly hard work improving my life and my health.

back in high school, girls knew to wear short skirts often in our spanish class so that our jerky teacher would give us better grades. (I never did it. He was too creepy. I didn't want him leering at me!) I was a B+ student in Spanish. I could have gotten an A if I played the game!

it does not detract from your effort to point out that the genetic aspect is pretty big, too. Money allows for gym memberships, plastic surgery, make-up.

In my case it was effort and positivity, not privilege and money. Exercise is free.

Though if you're lazy, money can buy you those things temporarily, but you still have to work hard.

they work. I remember the bumper sticker, I may be fat, but you're ugly, and I can lose weight.

Growing up, I had some friends who were just born homely. Maybe a lot of money and plastic surgery would have helped, and a rich family would have done what it took. One did get a nose job. Another was so very, very short - nothing to be done about that.

Being wealthy is the ~1 advantage but after that, attractiveness is probably the biggest advantage.

And the qualities that lead to advancement after that are: ruthlessness, and mediocrity.

Tall people get paid more money: A 2004 study by Timothy Judge at the University of Florida found that for every inch of height, a tall worker can expect to earn an extra $789 per year. That means two equally skilled coworkers would have a pay differential of nearly $5,000 per year, simply because of a 6-inch height differential, according to the study.

Fat people get paid less: Obese workers (those who have a Body Mass Index of more than 30) are paid less than normal-weight coworkers at a rate of $8,666 a year for obese women, and $4,772 a year for obese men, according to a George Washington University study that cited data from the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth in 2004. And other studies indicate obese women are even more likely to be discriminated against when it comes to pay, hiring and raises.

Blondes get paid more: A 2010 study from the Queensland University of Technology studied 13,000 Caucasian women and found blondes earn greater than seven percent more than female employees with any other hair color. The study said the pay bump is equivalent to the boost an employee would generally see from one entire year of additional education.

Workers who workout get paid more: According to a study in the Journal of Labor Research, workers who exercise regularly earn nine percent more on average than employees who don’t work out. The study from Cleveland State University claims people who exercise three or more times a week earn an average of $80 a week more than their slothful coworkers.

Women who wear makeup make more: Not only do people judge beauty based on how much makeup a woman is wearing, make-up adorned women also rank higher in competence and trustworthiness, according to a study funded by Procter & Gamble, Massachusetts General Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston University, and the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute. A study in the American Economic Review said women who wear make-up can earn more than 30 percent more in pay than non makeup wearing workers.

Handsome people are paid handsomely: A Yale University study from Daniel Hamermesh finds employers pay a beauty premium to attractive employees. The beautiful workers earn an average of roughly five percent more, while unattractive employees can miss out on up to almost nine percent, according to the study.

If you’re too pretty, it’s a pity: Generally speaking, attractive people make out when it comes to salary and hiring. But what about the exceedingly attractive among us? If you’re an attractive man, don’t sweat it because you always enjoy an advantage, according to a 2010 study that appeared in the Journal of Social Psychology. However, women rated as very attractive face discrimination when applying to “masculine” jobs.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tykiisel/2013/03/20/you-are-judged-by-your-appearance/

can buy pretty (plastic surgery, good clothes) - a pretty person born to a poor family might have a better chance of getting out of poverty, but they will go through some horrid stuff on the way.

A social science finding from the 80s....

Sorry, but there's a huge social price women pay here too--it's kind a no-win situation based on the ridiculous premise that one's visage should mean so much in the first place, either way.

Alix Kates Schulman (sp) wrote something related to this in Memoirs of an Ex-Prom Queen. From her perspective (writing about growing up in the 50s) it sucked in different ways.

I do think beyond wealth, being able-bodied nets the most invisible privilege. "Pretty?" Not so much.

but are you pretty? I'll reserve further judgment until I'm able to judge your appearance.

Maybe I could have phrased that better.

Within reason, you can make yourself reasonably attractive. There are limitations, of course, and it costs some money to be sure.

Truth be told, I think that just about anyone under 45 (and maybe a few folks over that age too) can make themselves look above average in attractiveness if they keep their weight down, stay in shape, don't smoke or abuse drugs, and take care of your hair and skin.

Is it a privilege? Yes, but it's not one that is handed to people the same way that other privileges are.

although to think that systematic racism is less an issue than attractiveness is utter bullshit.

Watching people come in and out.

Young man, early to mid 20's, holds the door open for two quite attractive young women coming in behind him. RIGHT BEHIND them was a frumpy and rather unattractive woman of about the same age. He let the door slam in her face.

And if Hillary Clinton wins the presidency next year, obviously her physical attractiveness will have played no small part in her victory.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$8$$$$$

Rupert Murdoch too and don't forget Rush Limbaugh.

What is considered pretty though varies by cultures.

She could grill me weinerschnitzel any day of the week.

Rarely used to describe men. I'd use "attractive" instead for your post.

By that measure, anyone can be attractive. However, pretty much everyone is on the same wavelength when it comes to physical beauty. There are outliers, of course, and different people have different ways of judging beauty but, for the most part, humanity is in agreement as to what constitutes a pretty or handsome individual.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]If you don't give yourself the same benefit of a doubt you'd give anyone else, you're cheating someone.[/center][/font][hr]

Everyone wants to look at pretty. Everyone wants to have pretty on their arm. Everyone wants to BE pretty. NOBODY wants the ugly duckling. NOBODY cares or is interested in the least. Pretty will get you everything from the benefit of the doubt to the better prom date to the job, all other things being equal. I know with absolute certainty that if I were a photogenic blonde, most if not all of my career in broadcasting would have been on television where they paid better and of course the exposure was FAR better. As is, my career was mostly in radio.

When my daughter was born - and was just simply pretty from the get-go, I was THRILLED!!! And relieved like I cannot even describe! Big blue eyes, blonde hair, perfect peaches-and-cream skin, heart shaped face, Cupid's bow mouth, ridiculous natural golden like-in-the-storybooks corkscrew curls - she looked like she belonged on an Ivory Soap box. I kept thinking - "THAT came outta ME????" She turned out to be smart and sensible and kind and a good judge of people, too. And - shame on me, when I found out I was pregnant with a girl, I prayed for that, based on my own experiences, being snubbed and stood up and laughed at and hiding under my hair and long bangs for most of my youth and going to the Senior Prom with a blind date who pretty much ditched me to hang with his friends. Didn't matter that my grades were always the best in class. Always had a weight problem, bad eyesight which meant thick glasses until my dad couldn't stand to look at that anymore and made me switch to contact lenses which hurt and never fit correctly and made me squint all the time, and a nose big enough to provide you shelter from a rainstorm. With a lifetime of shit like that behind me, I didn't even care if our daughter had ANY brains. I just wanted her to be pretty. So she wouldn't have to go through the shit I went through as a fat ugly kid and teenager. My first thought, when I first saw her (after "THANK YOU, SWEET DARLING GOD!!!!!&quot , was - "she'll go farther. She'll probably make more money. And her life will be easier. And with far less heartbreak. Simply BECAUSE she's pretty." So far, that's how it's worked out, too. AND on top of that, she's never had a weight problem, either! O.M.G.!!!!! She was born with the proverbial brass ring.

Shitty, isn't it, the way things are? We're so damned superficial! In this world but especially in this country! Nothing but the world of appearances. It governs EVERYTHING.

My mother was hugely hung up on looks. HUGELY. My father, too, for that matter. She was always thinner than I was, and better dressed than I was, and super critical and sometimes downright hostile toward me that this was all I was. Always cared about her appearance almost obsessively. Dressed up to go to the grocery store. Didn't like that I cared little about my appearance but I wore a uniform in school and really didn't have much of an "appearance" to care about in the first place. Undoubtedly the root-source of the contentious love/hate relationship that was constant between us over the years. And I remember as a child, the time she told me this "joke": Two women in an elevator notice a little girl in there with them. One of the women turns to the other and in a loud whisper says "she's not very p-r-e-t-t-y." And the little girl (who's clearly heard this) blurts out "no, but I am VERY s-m-a-r-t."

having a massive fortune has more advantages than attractiveness. Massive wealth also seems to last longer.

I want to see your face and decide if you have pretty privilege.

I think white male privilege is the top one in America. Most CEOs are white men, most financiers are white men, most presidents have been white men, Supreme Court has had mostly white men in it history, most of congress are white men, senate- white men, state legislators are mostly white men, judges are mostly white men, and so on and so forth.

I'm not buying this bravenak - at all. This entire thread is a dodge, deflect and defer. I've seen a pic of you - they can't tell me that because of your face all is right in your world and you had ALL these opportunities they didn't. This was baiting to the nth degree so I'm upthread playing.

I mean I'm cute somedays, but that didn't get me shit. Be nice if it did because I'd choose to be me with warren buffets money.

These type of threads are just trying to deflect attention from the actual problem so that they don't have to do any work on themselves and their people.
Pretty privilege my ass. The only thing pretty ever got me was groped by old men.

With saggy old you know what's and I'm sorry but you have to grow old with that!

I look just like this guy

&w=350&h=254

And what I'm trying to say, as the barriers against the black community and women continue to be torn down, there will always be "pretty privilege". Imagine 50 years from now. You think McGramps would have picked Falin if they didn't think 50,000 hillbillies would be calling her a MILF?

He's crazy. Palin was my governor for a little while. She's really in love with the oil companies, so I think that's the reason they picked her. Her looks were just icing on the cake.

I may be smiled at more than an ugly white man, but my looks do not help me in life. I'm not beautiful so I can't get into modeling, besides have you ever heard of a 145 pound model? Can't act so that's out. Maybe it will help in the fall when I start selling insurance policies, but I don't think so. White men usually do better in that industry as well.

I hope you're right that in 50 years this will be an equality driven country. I'll bet that Pretty people don't make more money than ugly people.