Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 04:13 PM Mar 2014

A problem with White Privilege as an everyday term in America

Last edited Tue Mar 4, 2014, 05:21 PM - Edit history (2)

It takes what we think of as a minority concept (privilege) and applies it to an historical majority (white), to hang a post-modern, post-structuralist framing on the rather straightforward concept of oppression of non-white persons by our social and cultural structure and institutions.

There is no measure by which white folks don't come out on top here, in aggregate.

It. Is. Always. Better. To. Be. White. Here.

But trying to tell an impoverished, elderly, blind white woman contemplating suicide that she is privileged would be a rather willfully uncommunicative use of a common word. It is, however, a fact that she would be even worse off if she were black.


Driving is a privilege in that it is not a right and it is granted by the state (you apply for a drivers license) and can be taken away. It is, in fact, a privilege. Legally it is a privilege. It is a privilege in the same way that in prison being able to read books is a privilege... it can be taken away.

Since white privilege is deep and structural and something white people are born into it doesn't make much sense as that kind of privilege.

Now, vernacularly privilege is associated with a thing held by the few. A privileged upbringing is something special. The great majority of white people think of themselves as not being privileged, and they are correct, if we are using words the way everyone uses them who isn't trying to start an argument.

It is rather tendentious to tell the majority of a nation that they are privileged to express the very real phenomenon that 13% of the population is grievously oppressed.

Then they say, "I am not privileged," and you can then say, "You are a clueless racist because you use a word they way everybody uses it rather than this bizarre way I choose to use it!"


The 1% are privileged.

Black people are oppressed, and disadvantaged.

The average person is.... average. The average person is, being in the middle, advantaged in some ways and disadvantaged in some ways. And I think it is fair to say that, in a capitalist system, the average person is grievously oppressed.

And everyone here knows that.

Now, I get that white privilege is an aspect of society and not about individuals. I get that, in the same way I get that men are themselves victims of the patriarchy.

These concepts are about society as an institutional structure, not about individuals. And because I get that I have never questioned the existence of white privilege or the patriarchy.


But we see these things used time and again when talking about individuals. And it is a civil-discourse problem. The tendentious use of academic jargon that does not mean what it sounds like it means is probably not super helpful.

We can purpose the word privilege oddly to describe oppression as an absence of privilege if we want, but it will promote bad emotion and talking past one another.

It would be like describing everyone with a job as rich. In a sense it is true, since everyone with a job in America is richer than the average human being on Earth.

But, unless just trying to start an argument, why would someone use "rich" to mean the absence of the most crushing poverty?


I swear, a lot of the game of "let's fight" is a game of pushing language until a satisfactory breaking point is reached where the language becomes so tortured that folks can fight over things they agree about.


That all being said, if one drops the jargon and the other person is really maintaining in plain language that non-white people are not oppressed or that a male-status-oriented social structure does not exist then yes... that person is clueless and racist and sexist and a dummy.
9 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
A problem with White Privilege as an everyday term in America (Original Post) cthulu2016 Mar 2014 OP
Interesting... cyberswede Mar 2014 #1
That quote agrees with my sense of the thing. cthulu2016 Mar 2014 #2
Do you think we just need a dumbed-down version of the term for everyday use? cyberswede Mar 2014 #3
Yes, much of the controversy is driven by bad actors cthulu2016 Mar 2014 #4
LOL - valid points! cyberswede Mar 2014 #5
Agree with these statements lumberjack_jeff Mar 2014 #6
I see no problem with the term Spider Jerusalem Mar 2014 #7
You have proven my point. Thank you. cthulu2016 Mar 2014 #8
Nope, you're only proving your own wilful ignorance and blindness. Spider Jerusalem Mar 2014 #9

cyberswede

(26,117 posts)
1. Interesting...
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 04:43 PM
Mar 2014

But the term is widely used, not just on DU. If we call it something else here (so as not to alienate people), how does that help with the larger understanding of the phenomenon?

I found an interesting masters thesis that is specifically about the term "White Privilege" and the evolution of its use.

Before discrimination in public forums was made illegal with the Civil Rights Act of 1964, writers interpreted and connected white privilege with blatant public acts of discrimination perpetuated and protected by governmental regulations. A paradigm shift came after Peggy McIntosh’s 1987 lecture turned journal article, White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack, when many of the old forms of public discrimination had been deemed illegal. Scholars and non-academic writers alike would now interpret the concept of white privilege to meet their new needs: uncovering the answer to why acts of discrimination were still present in society, even after they were deemed illegal by congressional law. Strongly influenced by McIntosh, the paradigm shifted to understanding white privilege as being perpetuated by Americans’ unconsciousness. More of a psychological understanding of discrimination and privilege would become the norm in explaining such things as the continued lag in performance metrics by various minority groups.


http://tinyurl.com/mnxchhy

cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)
2. That quote agrees with my sense of the thing.
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 04:54 PM
Mar 2014

It was 80s-90s when white privilege became, like the patriarchy, widely used as a notion of deep social/cultural structure.

And it is fine in a seminar where all participants have a rich, nuanced view of the thing, and what the thing is not.

But it can be a tendentious term for everyday use because most people communicate about persons, not deep social structures. And the terms imply (in common usage) that all white persons are aristiocrats and all male persons are kings.

If I were addressing an audience of lay-persons I would use structural racism rather than white privelige, since the second will merely raise the hackles of many, precluding much subequent communication.

cyberswede

(26,117 posts)
3. Do you think we just need a dumbed-down version of the term for everyday use?
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 05:02 PM
Mar 2014

I find it hard to believe that the concept is that difficult for people to grasp. And I think that DUers who use the term are really trying to educate people about what it actually means, rather than the commonly-held misconception you describe. Maybe they're tilting at windmills, but I also think there's no shortage of DUers being purposely obtuse about it.

ETA: oops - I replied before I read your edit. I don't actually think "structural racism" is a dumbed-down term, and I think it would be a good substitute. Now, you just have to get everyone on DU to use it instead.

cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)
4. Yes, much of the controversy is driven by bad actors
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 05:16 PM
Mar 2014

There are some folks who are just crummy.

But because privilege has certain valid meanings in everyday speech, the term itself leads, almost inevitably, to examination of individual privilege because we think of privilege as an individualizable trait having to do with specific advantages... as something exceptional.

Doesn't almost everyone think of privelege as being at the top of a pyramid? As an exception?

So when I am talking to somebody about, say, conviction rates for possession of marijuana I would tend to attribute it to structural racism rather than white privilege because I think the listener would be likelier to understand.

The point being that folks who use "white privilege" would still know what I was talking about. And if I were speaking to a white person there would not be a substansial chance of them feeling personally implicated in whatever I was saying about the criminal justice system.

As I am sure you know, if you say "most left-handed people holding a coffee cup like X," someone will respond with, "Bullshit! My uncle is left-handed and he..."

That's human nature.

So starting off with something that sounds kind of like an observation about white persons (that is how it sounds), rather than about the totality of society, plays right into the human default position of thinking everything is about us.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
6. Agree with these statements
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 05:26 PM
Mar 2014
It is rather tendentious to tell the majority of a nation that they are privileged to express the very real phenomenon that 13% of the population is grievously oppressed.


And especially this
I swear, a lot of the game of "let's fight" is a game of pushing language until a satisfactory breaking point is reached where the language becomes so tortured that folks can fight over things they agree about.
 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
7. I see no problem with the term
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 05:58 PM
Mar 2014

privilege -
2.a. A right, advantage, or immunity granted to or enjoyed by a person, or a body or class of persons, beyond the common advantages of others; an exemption in a particular case from certain burdens or liabilities.

2.b In extended sense: A special advantage or benefit; with reference to divine dispensations, natural advantages, gifts of fortune, etc.


Arguing that "I don't like the term white privilege because I don't actually know what the word means" is kind of silly. Arguing that white people are not privileged by virtue of whiteness in many small ways that they may even be unaware of is just wilful ignorance. (Small things like "I don't have to worry about being stopped and questioned by the police when I'm just walking down the street minding my own business", for instance.)

cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)
8. You have proven my point. Thank you.
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 06:35 PM
Mar 2014

The word privilege is, in the English language and American culture, a very poor term for describing a majority status and, being a rather foolish word to chose to describe what it is supposed to describe, leads to poor communication.

2.a. A right, advantage, or immunity granted to or enjoyed by a person, or a body or class of persons, beyond the common advantages of others; an exemption in a particular case from certain burdens or liabilities.

2.b In extended sense: A special advantage or benefit; with reference to divine dispensations, natural advantages, gifts of fortune, etc.


Do you honestly not recognize that white status is not beyond the common advantages of others, but rather the withholding of common advantages, and that holding common advantages is not best described as privilege.

And surely the words "special" and "exemption" are not challenging.

The special status is the oppressed status of non-whites. White is the default. Rights can be subtracted from that default, like by skin color, or added, as by money.

To describe a social default, majoritarian status as privilege is silliness, and the miscommunication it provokes is unsurprising.


As to your erroneous comment about my understanding of the term... dude, you don't even know what privilege means after looking it up.
 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
9. Nope, you're only proving your own wilful ignorance and blindness.
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 06:46 PM
Mar 2014

If you're black? Being white ABSOLUTELY confers privilege. You have things entirely the wrong way around if you consider it only from a white perspective. Relative immunity from unreasonable and unwarranted police harrassment? That's a privilege. Not being followed around by a security guard in a shop? That's privilege. And all the other things that define the difference in the average daily experience of being white vs being black in the USA.

I do however love white people pontificating on why there's no such thing as "white privilege"; it's as awesome as "men explain misogyny".

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»A problem with White Priv...