at least, not unless I stand in line.

But on a plane you are in a confined space. At least, I am in economy. Flights are fulled, the airlines have added more and more seats so people are crunched together. And, if have not noticed - perhaps you should record yourself - people tend to talk louder on cell phones.

Also, some people talk louder than others even when not on a phone. Gonna make some rules against them too? Maybe you could wander the plane aisle with a decibel meter and shhhsss everyone not complying with your wishes Head-Librarian style!

On the ground I can move away from people who shout, who curse, who smell bad, who shout Benghazi!

I cannot do this on the plane.

Why it is so difficult to understand?

And if you need to "make a phone call" yourself, you discovered an emergency at 30,000 ft, I am sure that the flight crew will be able to help.

We don't need more rules restricting legal human behavior because some anti-social people don't like others talking. If someone is distributive on a plane, the stewardesses will do something. We don't need further restrictions on human behavior. If other humans talking offends you so greatly, hire your own plane and have your flight crew fly you around with gags over their mouths.

people. I guess your face palm means you didn't get it.

...is to support rules like "no cellphone use on planes." Given that the other ways tend to involve unpleasant confrontations (or assault charges), it's not such a bad strategy.

If cell conversations on planes end up being permitted, maybe the next time someone near me starts babbling on in that ridiculously loud "cell phone voice," I'll start talking just as loudly...about really gruesome, disturbing things. Or maybe singing at the top of my lungs...off key. Or maybe farting.

And that would be okay because, you know..."other people."

Only one person here is trying to use government to restrict the rights of others.

In order to make it to my grandfather's funeral, I had to fly. Sure, I could have theoretically have chosen not to fly, but there were family matters that had to be dealt with in person. So I didn't really have the option to choose not to fly.

Another case: a job that required me to fly. I could have "chosen" not to fly, and been unemployed.

People who rely on a theoretical model of decision-making can make statements like you just made. Those of us who are subject to the constraints of real life find that our solution sets are more complex.

Again, choices you MAKE and then try to use them as excuses for using the government to restrict people's rights.

"I don't like it" is nowhere near a good excuse for the government to tell everyone in the nation they can't talk on a phone on a plane. If you set that precedent, then what stops the government from restricting ANY behavior that someone deems annoying? I don't like baggy pants...outlaw them. I don't like women with extremely short hair...outlaw it. Men shouldn't have long hair...outlaw it. I don't like kids at restaurants....outlaw them. You are creating a slippery slope with this view.

jabbering on a phone in flight is a "right?"

Is someone who does it an asshole? You bet they are. Would I support the private company exercising their right to curtail/limit it? Sure.

airline that curtails the "right" to speak on a cell phone in flight.

Or at least have cell phone "roaming" charges be exorbitant.

The stuff you learn on this board.

The poster advocated contacted a government agency to restrict rights.

Trust me, you learn a LOT more if you slow down and read BEFORE you post.

Just curious.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

It is a document of negative rights. It states what the federal CAN regulate and if it is not mentioned, it does not have the power. Thus, which right of the federal government gives it the power to regular phone calls on a private airline?

under the entity "The Federalists" was a knock down, drag out, that was only ended when Aaron Burr agreed to "fix" the problem. Then Madison bogarted the miles, claiming that Franklin's gout and Jefferson's family issues precluded them from using them, anyway. John Jay made a claim, but that was all hushed up.

But they all agreed that douchebags yakking on the phone next to them was not what the original intent was.

Start with the simple shouting "fire" at a crowded theater.

Continue with dumping trash in the street. And, of course, guns! Oh, how we love our guns

Did you even read what you wrote before you posted?

Do YOU read what you write before hitting the post button?

"I tend to cut people a break..."

Except for the ones you wish to send to another planet...




Head Librarian behavior too? Or do we rationalize a distinction without a difference?

- a stranger on the bus telling you everything about his life, nonstop, during the whole ride
- the colleague who comes into your bureau for a friendly chat and keeps talking and talking and talking, while you just want to finish your work
- the person who talks loudly on the cell-phone during a movie in cinema
- the neighbour who parties at 3 am

1. Say, "that is cool, but I really need to finish this, or I need to get some shut eye." Personally, I love people who do that. They usually end up a characters or dialog in my (sadly unfinished) novels.
2. Tell my colleague (in my office, his name is Jim) "Jim, I really need to get this done."
3. Kick the back of the seat or wave over an usher.
4. Knock on the door and ask them to keep it down. (Usually, I'll already be at that party.)

Human interaction! Try it sometime!

It is not.
That why human society has rules and their enforcement.

"Dear mysterious dog-owner: Please don't let your dog shit on my lawn every night even though it's super-convenient for you. With best regards: FSogol."

stewardesses, crew, driver, boss, police officer, HOA, etc.

At my current house (I've been there 8 years now), I've never found dog poop in my yard. The secret is that our street is extra wide with sidewalks on only one side of the street. I live on the side of the street without the sidewalk and watch dogs and their owners doing their business in other yards.


PS. Your supposed letter is too passive aggressive for my taste. In every example, I took proactive action and took care of the problem myself.
PPS. Rules and regs are for important things, not for everyday behavior.

Best regards.

Lots of people kick seats accidentally or because they have nervous legs. Usually I just ask them to be more careful instead of being passive agressive.

you could probably finish your novels.

as evidenced by this thread, lol.

And have yet to be kicked off of public transportation for acting like a flaming asshole, so I must be doing something right.

Lemme guess, you're one of those grocery shoppers yapping away loudly on your phone, oblivious to everyone around you. Or one of those who can't sit 10 minutes in a doctor's reception area without blah-blah-blahing. Or one of those who doesn't have the common courtesy to stop talking when a cashier is ringing up your order, and are unaware that you just *might* be holding up the line. Amiright?

under 30 seconds. On planes, buses and trains and in doctor's offices, I usually read physical books and magazines. Some people like to talk and I won't begrudge them the ability to do it. The OP wasn't talking about people being flaming assholes or being disruptive, they just feel no one should talk.






* That is a huge embarrassment to my kids.

I'm getting a bit fed up with the cost of my cell plan, and actually picked up an LG Tracfone at Kroger the other day. Not quite ready to pull the plug, but I'm getting there...

Found an LG440-G for $14.99 at Best Buy. Voice, text, email, 3G internet, voice-dialing, crude camera and video. Not much memory, but enough to store a few tunes on to listen to via BlueTooth headphones. Basically everything that Smartphones are used for 90% of the time without the laughably ridiculous costs for hardware and data plans.

And I can keep my phone number, which was a huge plus.

I pulled the plug on cable years ago and survived that, so I imagine I'll survive this.

I've worked in hi-tech R&D for 20 years and am the worst Luddite I know.

And I still subscribe to magazines and my local newspaper... I've definitely got some Luddite in me.

Of course, madam. And your incessant talking on the phone in the "quiet car" was completely acceptable.

For fucks sake.

and you might be whistling a different tune.

There are too many rude, inconsiderate people out there. Let them text their little hearts out, but silence is golden, or at least not having to listen to someone yap away on a cell phone is golden.

and has an awful nails-on-a-chalkboard Southern accent -- not the mellifluous kind. Sitting next to her for an extended period would be TORTURE. Flying doesn't phase me in the least, but if this goes through, I might have to hit the ol' doc for Valium to make flying more enjoyable!

all has gone away. Fortunately, I never have to fly anymore. Cell phones, I couldn't imagine cell phones. It's bad enough being wedged between two guys with their elbows in your ribs and hogging the arm rests trying to use their laptops.

Whenever possible, I go Amtrak. Thank the Gods that I have more options these days.

14 hours of being between two big guys who were elbowing me and using me for a pillow. I could hardly even eat the meals, I was scrunched up so bad.

on a plane you are a captive audience, and these assholes on their cell phones are OBNOXIOUS

a way for everyone to fly with minimum disruption. Flying is already uncomfortable enough as it is. What if every single person on a flight has a cell phone conversation at the same time? Could you even hear well enough to conduct a conversation?
It's more (to me) an attempt to enter into a communal agreement regarding the welfare of all passengers.
Here's a definition in case I've not explained it very well.... I know it says voluntary agreement and we are asking a regulating body to step in and make it a rule and that's because if people were asked not to make calls, some would feel they didn't have to follow the rule.

social contract
noun
1.
the voluntary agreement among individuals by which, according to any of various theories, as of Hobbes, Locke, or Rousseau, organized society is brought into being and invested with the right to secure mutual protection and welfare or to regulate the relations among its members.
2.
an agreement for mutual benefit between an individual or group and the government or community as a whole.
Also, social compact.

On top of your excellent points, who here thinks they and their life are SO important that forcing(!) others to be part of (1/2) your phone call is valid.

Sogol? Do you not see this in your zeal to protect a right that doesn't exist?

To me, anybody who thinks they MUST make a phone call on a plane is a self-important gnat who thinks nothing of distorting any social compact of courtesy merely because it's convenient to them.

GAC

.

I think that if I ever sit next to someone, I will just pipe into the conversation.

After all, I often think that someone is talking to me until I realize that they are talking on a cell phone.

Phone call over shortly.

Random person on cellphone to his mom: "So how are you feeling?"

You: "OMG...my bowels have been acting up again! I've been constipated all week, and now I have bleeding hemorrhoids and I can hardly sit still in one place. How are YOU feeling?"

Random person on cellphone: "Uh, look Mom, I'll talk to you later, OK?" <click>

You: "Hee hee"


THE END

oh hai! is that so-and-so? tell them I sez hi!

haven't flown in years. We use to fly out to Arizona once in a while when dad was still alive, but he's been gone for 7 years now.

as flying cattle cars.

...on our behavior.

I'm old enough to remember air travel when the typical flight was only half full, you could get to the gate 10 minutes before departure, and smoke pot in the restroom if you were so inclined.

Enough with the authoritarian behavior police.

Let people have their cell phones.

I think talking out loud to someone on the phone in an area where people cannot get away from you is rude and is invading the space of the other people. But I realize that today people don't see it my way. So I have my music on my phone and carry headphones so I can block out their noise.

iPods really come in handy for such occasions

It's worse than talking on the phone because you have to hear both parts of the conversation...

...experimentally to be a lot more annoying and distracting than hearing both sides.

http://mindhacks.com/2010/09/09/why-are-overheard-phone-conversations-so-distracting/

Okay.

The antenna on cell towers are highly directional horizontally. They don't waste a lot of energy by transmitting up. The signal is basically line of sight from the tower and would exit the earth much as a tangent. Perhaps in an area rich with cell towers one could hold a short conversation with a lot of cell switches but some parts of the country are not rich in cell sites.

Does anyone know the answer to my question?

Edit to add- Airfone is a different beast then regular cell service.

I really don't know. I choose not to fly commercial in this post 911 world.

Sat phones use satellites in a geostable orbit some 23,000 miles up. At this distance there is a very noticeable delay between what is spoken and what is heard. The phones are large and need to be oriented to the satellite.

There was a company that had a number of satellites in a low orbit. Each satellite was a cell site with the capability of passing calls to the next satellite coming over the horizon. The company could not generate enough interest and without funding allowed the orbits to decay- they are all burned up.

Here's an interesting article from the NYT:
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/14/technology/14CELL.html
It is from 2001. I would be interested in reading a white paper on why or why not cell service would work dependable in an high altitude aircraft. What I know of radio transmission and reception says not well. Adding, and as grumpy as some cell user are added to the frustration of modern air travel, I see the potential for some bad behavior.

Proposed cell service on airplanes is not going to use either terrestrial towers or sat phones. The heart of the matter is that all of the cell phones in the plane are in a wonderful metal enclosure, with limited capability to connect to ANYTHING outside of the plane, except for attenuated signals through the small windows.

What they are talking about is, since they've already put WiFi in the planes, is having a cell transceiver IN the airplane that multiplexes all of the calls into a single satellite link on the plane. That can use the same channel as the WiFi. Your cell phone is not going to be connecting to a terrestrial tower or a satellite. Your cell phone is going to be connecting to the onboard unit which, to your phone, looks like a normal cell tower.

That's the key statement. I don't care what the cells connect to in the plane and yes it is a nearly complete faraday cage, ultimately they will be connecting to a satellite and there is latency. The only way out of that is to relaunch the multi-satellites that made satellite phone servers very expensive but without large delay. The old airfone system connected to receivers on the ground and was not the same as cell service. No one wanted to use it the same as the sat system that was allowed to burn up. It's just too damned expensive.

Send me a link with specs and text explaining how this systems is supposed to work. Because it doesn't make sense to me electronically or financially.

...But I've used Skype over inflight WiFi.

And if I can do that, then it doesn't seem that big a deal to have some kind of VOIP link through whatever the WiFi is going through.



And, yeah, maybe the delay will be awful, which will make people talk louder and repeat a lot.

Edit: By "used Skype", I mean "successfully communicated intelligible words" on one of several trials. It's usually sketchy, and they have it throttled so you can't do Netflix or any streaming video. I've posted to DU inflight with no problem.

They are now the property of Iridium communications and they use resellers to sell their service. I have not been able to get any pricing. If the airlines use a system like you suggest it will be Hell to pay because they aren't going give that service for nothing since it will cost them $$$ and they will mark up at least 100%.

the Great Pacific Northwet.

it was a goddamned satellite?

I just saw one in December when I was out walking the dog...

On one hand, it would be really nice to be able to make or receive an important call while on a long flight. And I always thought the rules against phones on an airplane were stupid.

On the other hand, who wants to sit next to some douche-bag yakking away for four hours on a long flight when you are stuck rubbing elbows and have nowhere to go? And you know there WILL be assholes who talk loudly about inane bullshit the whole 4 hour flight - the same asshole who can't hang up the phone in the checkout line.

I guess, like restaurants, airlines will have to deal with this on a customer service basis. It didn't take the rule of law to outlaw cell phones in restaurants. Loud mouthed douche-bags yakking away made phones unwelcome in most restaurants - the law didn't need to be involved.

Just allow people to text and/or email - that's what most polite people do in social crowded settings anyway. Business people can stay in touch and families can stay in the loop for emergencies. Limit voice calls to a couple 5 minute conversations per flight - or something like that.

I've been a pilot (not commercial) for 30 years so I have a working knowledge of the FAA and what they do.

And I have argued the cell phone debate with truthers. (not to mention used a cell phone while piloting a small plane ... shhh)

The FCC is actually who "banned" cell use on planes. Obviously, the FAA will have to approve the new equipment.

I agree if the FAA signs off on the equipment if is going to happen one way or the other. I just hope, as I said up thread, the airlines will consider their customers comfort.

Whoever decided that putting relatively insensitive touch screen entertainment panels into the backs of the seats, and then programming the system with games, was a good idea.

Nothing like the person behind you really getting their Tetris groove on for eight hours.

Anyone who has traveled for work extensively knows that those hours in the air are often your only break from upper management and the 2, 5, 12 hours you will be able to get any work done for the week.

Soooo glad I jumped from Marketing (Global Services) at a wireless company to Finance. I could totally see this making more work for the Global Team (welcome to the plane SMS individualized for every single flight originating in the US ) -

Off to make fun of my former team and advise them of this as a way to circumvent the extra work!

I find kids far more annoying than people on the phone.

Add cell phones to the mix and...

Seat mates or screeching kids? I find the latter far more annoying personally, on a plane or restaurant, than somebody yaking on the phone.

with people chatting away on cellphones in close proximity to others, just like if people in a restaurant are talking loudly about very personal things...is that doing so suggests to those around them that they are "fixtures".

Invisible.


To explain, has anyone ever seen a movie where rich people have servants standing nearby and their employers are discussing things the servants have no business hearing? Why? Because the servants are invisible to them. Meaningless.

this isn't to say that all public cellphone conversation is bad.

Just the top-of-one's-voice kind.

And, if it's personal, FGS lower your voice even more, or take the conversation somewhere more private.

simple enough to do...so simple, in fact, that I figure those who don't do it are pretentious asshats pathetically looking for attention.

trying to interact with me. People are always trying to chat with me an it's kind of weird. Yesterday the woman at cash register at my university came up to me, grabbed my arm, and held it while she made small talk with me. WTF?

happen because they hate:

humans talking
humans talking loud
humans talking on phones
humans in general
the touch of a human
children

(Did I forget any?)


What the heck, DU? What the heck?

Or are they just not really human by now?

Wouldn't you think it strange if I came up to you while you were grocery shopping, gently grabbed your arm, and held it while I chatted with you about my day. You're busy doing something and you don't know me.

any sort of noise, or jump backwards away from her?

See, I don't like being touched anyway, so if that had been me, involved in something, minding my own business and someone came over and grabbed my arm, I would have screamed and nearly jumped out of my skin.

And that's if I didn't react some other way, like turning around and punching without thinking.




People need to keep their damned hands to themselves.

I have worked in a lot of group homes developmentally disabled people, elderly people, etc. I've been touched a lot.

developmentally disabled people too (but not the elderly).

The first group home I worked at the clients were non-verbal, and I was physically assaulted on a regular basis, especially by one of the guys.

The second group home (which I actually managed) there were three clients who were all verbal, and two of them were very affectionate. It got pretty uncomfortable sometimes trying to control my own phobia about being touched while trying not to let on to the clients.


I can honestly say it was one of the best jobs I ever had, shitty wages aside.

Not liking being touched must have made the job more difficult for you.