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Skip_In_Boulder

(1,841 posts)
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:00 PM Mar 2012

Here's what I don't get about the Treyvon Martin murder

When listening to the 911 tapes we clearly hear the dispatcher ask Zimmerman if he is following Treyvon Martin. When Zimmerman answers that yes he is the dispatcher clearly responds saying, "We don't need you to do that".

The police departments I have been familiar with over the years police dispatchers are police officers with the full rights and authority of any police officer. So when the dispatcher tells Zimmerman that, "We don't need you to do that", to me that's a direct command from a police officer for Zimmerman to not do something. Clearly Zimmerman ignores the command and we end up with another dead black kid. Would seem to me that Zimmerman's refusal to following a valid police command resulted in the unnecessary death of one Treyvon Martin.

That's not to mention that the Florida "Stand Your Ground" law seems to mean that you do not have to run away from a combative situation but it doesn't say it is the Stand Your Ground and Pursue if You Feel Like Doing So law.

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Here's what I don't get about the Treyvon Martin murder (Original Post) Skip_In_Boulder Mar 2012 OP
Police DEPARTMENTS are not single-minded things... Junkdrawer Mar 2012 #1
It's obvious you do get it...you called it the Trayvon Martin murder. Murder is the key word. shraby Mar 2012 #2
It's only a recommendation. LisaL Mar 2012 #3
And what do you base that conclusion on? n/t Skip_In_Boulder Mar 2012 #5
911 operators have no legal authority ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2012 #7
They say it wasn't an order. Life Long Dem Mar 2012 #20
It shows Zimmerman was the aggressor. Deep13 Mar 2012 #4
911 operators have never been sworn officers in my experience ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2012 #6
Yeah I am just having problems getting past the reality Skip_In_Boulder Mar 2012 #8
I totally agree with you there oldhippie Mar 2012 #15
Well I did find this on the subject. Skip_In_Boulder Mar 2012 #10
Right, many dispatchers used to be.. but not 911 operators. X_Digger Mar 2012 #14
Oh I can beleive this has a very high burn out rate Skip_In_Boulder Mar 2012 #19
I can't imagine even keeping a calm voice, much less being rational. n/t X_Digger Mar 2012 #21
I dont get how you can perceive ... oldhippie Mar 2012 #9
So if you told your children that Skip_In_Boulder Mar 2012 #11
Different circumstances ...... oldhippie Mar 2012 #13
I'm curious.. what police departments are those? (where dispatchers have police power) X_Digger Mar 2012 #12
In the midwest where I grew up Skip_In_Boulder Mar 2012 #17
Oh, it's definitely relevant. n/t X_Digger Mar 2012 #18
Great point. Seems to me Trayvon would have been the one who had the right to invoke the stand your Cass Mar 2012 #16

Junkdrawer

(27,993 posts)
1. Police DEPARTMENTS are not single-minded things...
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:03 PM
Mar 2012

I hear the Police Chief is a piece of work. The dispatcher sounds sane.

Deep13

(39,154 posts)
4. It shows Zimmerman was the aggressor.
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:05 PM
Mar 2012

It shows he was advancing and instigating the violence, not standing his ground or in any way defending himself. Even under the SYG rule, this is a pretty clear case of premeditated murder.

ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)
6. 911 operators have never been sworn officers in my experience
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:08 PM
Mar 2012

Last edited Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:12 PM - Edit history (1)

Been even longer since dispatchers were. They may be under the direction of an LEO. Any discussion has no direct legal authority.

That said, it is something for the jury to consider when it comes to state of mind and motive.

Skip_In_Boulder

(1,841 posts)
8. Yeah I am just having problems getting past the reality
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:23 PM
Mar 2012

that if George Zimmerman had of discontinued his pursuit of Treyvon that Treyvon would still be alive today.

 

oldhippie

(3,249 posts)
15. I totally agree with you there
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:53 PM
Mar 2012

As do the overwelming majority of my somewhat conservative, gun toting, second amendment loving friends in my pistol club here in Texas. Not one person I have talked with defends the asshole following and confronting the kid. If Zimmerman were here we would be looking for a rope.

Skip_In_Boulder

(1,841 posts)
10. Well I did find this on the subject.
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:31 PM
Mar 2012

Dispatchers are special trained civilians with no powers of arrest.

At one time, officers on our department who were injured on duty worked in dispatch, but it became a union issue and the practice was stopped. Some departments may still allow that, but it would be the exception.
Source(s):
Law enforcement since 1991

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100829215806AAheTDs

Which corresponds with my understanding of them being police officers as it has been many years since I have had any knowledge of the inner workings of a police department.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
14. Right, many dispatchers used to be.. but not 911 operators.
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:47 PM
Mar 2012

I had a college roommate in Virginia who worked as an operator part time.

He quit after 6 months. You would not BELIEVE the burn-out rate in that job.

Skip_In_Boulder

(1,841 posts)
19. Oh I can beleive this has a very high burn out rate
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:56 PM
Mar 2012

It's not a job I would wish on anyone and most of the 911 tapes I have ever heard demonstrate they do a really good job of it. Like on this tape the operator is pretty sane and rational.

 

oldhippie

(3,249 posts)
9. I dont get how you can perceive ...
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:28 PM
Mar 2012

... "We don't need you to do that", as a "direct command." It's not. It's a declarative sentence, advisory in nature at best. A direct command would be something like "Don't do that!" It's a language. Words and grammar mean things.

And in my considerable experience with 911 operators and dispatchers, they are not sworn officers and have no police authority whatsoever. It may be different somewhere.

Having said that, I still think Zimmerman is responsible for this whole sorry episode. He was the aggressor and disregarded advice at best. He had no business being within shooting range of the kid, much less arms reach. I hope he burns in hell (after a long prison sentence.)

Skip_In_Boulder

(1,841 posts)
11. So if you told your children that
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:36 PM
Mar 2012

"I don't want you to do something", it would be O.K. for them to do that because you had not pointedly stated, "Don't do that"?

 

oldhippie

(3,249 posts)
13. Different circumstances ......
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:45 PM
Mar 2012

You are in authority over your children. A 911 dispatcher is not in authority over a citizen (unless someone can show me otherwise.)

And "I don't want you to ......" is different than "I don't need you to .....". Words mean things.

Smart parents would say "Don't do that." Prtetty simple and unambiguous.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
12. I'm curious.. what police departments are those? (where dispatchers have police power)
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:45 PM
Mar 2012

In jurisdictions I'm familiar with, they're city / county employees, but no more police officers than the clerk who takes your money for a parking ticket.

My guess is that Sanford's is the same- notice that the operator didn't 'order' Zimmerman.

Quick search reveals things like this..

[div class='excerpt']The Communications Bureau is part of the Support Division and is the Public Safety Answering Point (PSAP) for the City of Greenville. Thirty-one civilian employees

(And let's not get into how cops think of non-cops as 'civilians'- that's another discussion altogether!)

Skip_In_Boulder

(1,841 posts)
17. In the midwest where I grew up
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:52 PM
Mar 2012

But that was a long time ago and after doing a little more digging it appears that may not be the case anymore. But I still think this is pertinent in this case and as someone pointed out on this thread it goes to Zimmerman's state of mind and I would even say his intent.

Cass

(2,600 posts)
16. Great point. Seems to me Trayvon would have been the one who had the right to invoke the stand your
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:01 PM
Mar 2012

ground law because he was the one being harassed and pursued by a nut with a gun. This situation is seriously messed up.

It is ripping my heart out when I think of what happened to Trayvon and the PD just blowing it off like it was no big deal and being ok with letting Zimmerman walk. Damn it all. I can't wrap my mind around this injustice.

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