= new reply since forum marked as read
is desperately trying to find a way out of Russia, and apparently his only option is a plea bargain. Unlike actual whistleblowers, Snowden fucked up. They didn't flea the country and never had to make comments denying that they turned over information to foreign governments:
Edward Snowden snuck a little jab at the government into his appearance at SXSW Interactive on Monday.
Asked if it was just a matter of time before the government could decrypt even the best encryption, the former National Security Agency contractor held up his own case as evidence that encryption works to protect data from surveillance.
"The United States government has assembled a massive investigative team" to look into him and his leak of top secret NSA documents, Snowden said. "And they still have no idea what documents were provided to the journalists, what they have, what they don't have. Because encryption works."
Snowden also suggested that encryption has kept the documents he leaked out of the hands of foreign governments, like Russia and China.
<...>
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/snowden-sxsw-documents-encryption
Direct quote:
<...>
Ed: If I could follow up on that I would say the US government’s investigation supports that. We have both public and private acknowledgements that they know at this point the Russian government, the Chinese government any other government has possession of any of this information. And that would be easy for them to find out. Remember these are the guys that are spying on everyone in the world. They have got human intelligence assets embedded in these governments. They have got electronic signal assets in these governments. If suddenly the Chinese government knew everything the NSA is doing we would notice the changes. We would notice the changes, we would see official communicating and our assets will tell us hey somewhere they have a warehouse they put you know, a thousand of their most skilled researchers in there. That has never happened and it is never going to happen.
http://blog.inside.com/blog/2014/3/10/edward-snowden-sxsw-full-transcription-and-video
Snowden: The U.S. Government has no idea what I gave to journalists in Russia and China, but encryption has kept the leaked documents out of the hands of foreign governments, like Russia and China, whose media are state-owned.
Genius!
Unlike actual whistleblowers, Snowden put himself in the position of having to plea bargain based on his actions that were outside the scope of simply leaking information about domestic surveillance.
From the beginning, it was clear that Snowden broke the law (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023439290). There was a point where even Snowden supporters accepted that he knew he broke the law. Snowden said it himself.
Fleeing the country and releasing state secrets did not help his case.
His actions since then have only made the situation worse.
Whistleblowers have been making that point, some in subtle ways.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023236549
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023035550
Of course, this is dimissed because they're also critical of the NSA. It's as if some think that you can't be against NSA overreach (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023002358) unless you support Snowden. People can acknowledge that the NSA needs reform, and can see where Snowden went off the rails (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024202440)
What's that line thrown out whenever Greenwald is criticized: Were you against Clarke when he went after Bush? Were you for Scooter Libby when he leaked Plame's identity?
Snowden is desperate.
Snowden Inc. ("The strategy: Attention = bargaining power"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024640825#post188
Another of your great Gossip Columns-- but without the nasally intonation of Hedda Hopper (and cleverly hidden inside someone else's post-- but there it is)!!!!
That's how it reads.
A leader of a popular clique just declared how some others (deemed less worthy) would behave in some hypothetical situation, and the clique members howl in joy over this speculative piece of gossip. Most of the thread has become little more than a middle school lunch table.
DU's wheel of outrage spins round and round.
Too easy.
..and I read on DU that Snowden is a Poopie Head too.
Your increasingly frantic and desperate claims,
and the one made about Snowden being a Poopie Head
are equally as relevant,
and both carry the same amount of documentation and critical thinking.
My Mom told me I should avert my eyes when someone is making an embarrassing spectacle of themselves in public,
but I can't.... I just HAVE to look.
Oh My... that IS embarrassing.
this thread and these comments are hilarious?
No one is going to stop criticizing Snowden or calling him out on his lies.
The next time someone criticizes Snowden, there will be another hi-five fest attempting to attack the credibility of anyone who does so.
Snowden fans can't take criticism of him, which is why there needs to be multiple OPs declaring nothing except: Leave Snowden alone.
I responded to one of your posts. Why would you care who the hell I am?
I know perfectly well what this forum is about. I have all the love and attention I need, right here at home. I just find you amusing, with your blue links and your .
Ignore me for all I care.
I responded to one of your posts. Why would you care who the hell I am?
I know perfectly well what this forum is about. I have all the love and attention I need, right here at home. I just find you amusing, with your blue links and your...
Ignore me for all I care.
...you're easy to forget. No need for ignore. If paying attention to "blue links" is entertaining, life can't be all that exciting.
Those blue links just keep creeping in on OP's I'm interested in.
If I'm so easy to forget, why do you keep responding to me?
How's that?
Eddie's a hero!
That's what they are telling us, we just haven't seen the light!
it certainly wasn't my best zinger, but that wasn't yours either 
...is even more hilarious. Snowden is desperate.
(Sorry, couldn't be bothered to create a sock puppet in order to laugh at my own genius).
venom oozes from you at the mention of Snowden.
It's more than a little.... weird.
...I can see why you would believe that.
the idiotic attacks on Snowden show exactly how petty and pathetic those folks are
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024639982
As I said below, this is all about creating a bunch of people on DU ("you people"
to hate.
Not everyone wants to sing the anti-Obama "tune," and not everyone wants to declare loyalty to Snowden, the criminal, fugitive who is desperate for a plea bargain.
Maybe others can see things you're unable to see.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024610884#post1
with some guy in a spangly sailor costume?
I will make you forget you were ever there; yes INDEED 
Thanks. 
Last edited Tue Mar 11, 2014, 04:46 PM - Edit history (2)
This topic of conversation on DU isn't ever going to get past the point of running in place; with the same old posters sniping with the same old adversaries with the same old tired talking points... Because of course everyone these days has to 'keep score' 
Every day or two the cycle repeats to the tune of 250+ posts with no change in direction whatsoever...Maybe that's by design...
Seems to me that your two paragraphs there are applicable to pretty much every topic under discussion on this website...
I have a feeling that this is just how hoomins work stuff out. The minute a largish movement appears a bunch of POLITICALLY UNBLINKERED NON-SHEEP also appear mysteriously from nowhere and start being underappreciated iconoclasts at everybody.
In fact, i would and still do, advocate for the abolishment of the National Security Act of 1947.
Howzat that for openers?
wrong
^^^^
In a nutshell.
The same people that cry about Obama worship are doing EXACTLY the same thing with Snowden.
Maybe you should take that sad, sorry fact into consideration.
right over your head.
I did not alert. I was a juror. I was one of the ones that voted to leave.
wrong.
"My question to you is: Because it has been proven that much of the NSA's spying is domestic, who do you think are the NSA's domestic enemies?"
It's a partisan fucking messageboard, Will. And you're giving posters shit for being partisans.
Sid
Turns out, even to DUers, being partisan trumps searching for the truth.
Just like Obama during the lead up to 2008, y'all had me fooled. 
[URL=
.html][IMG]
[/IMG][/URL]
I won't say it.
"His poll numbers are the same as they were 3 years ago and his polling among liberals is at 86%. And these programs were revealed during Bush in 2006. I haven't seen any statues erected."
...Snowden and his fans who are desperate to hype his impact. That's why people like Greenwald have to dismiss the President's proposals to reform the NSA as PR, even as they claim it vindicates Snowden and the ACLU acknowledges them as a step forward.
In fact, Snowden's poll numbers have gotten worse.
Pew poll: Public Split over Impact of NSA Leak, But Most Want Snowden Prosecuted
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023036390
CNN Poll: Majority give Snowden thumbs down
<...>
"Younger Americans are less likely than older Americans to call for the U.S. government to prosecute Snowden," says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. "More than half of Americans over the age of 34 think Snowden should be extradited and prosecuted, but younger Americans are evenly divided. There are no major age differences on the question of whether Americans approve of Snowden's actions, so it seems that there is a generation gap on punishment, but not on the leaks themselves."
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/17/cnn-poll-majority-give-snowden-thumbs-down/
As you may know, details of the government collection of phone records and internet data were revealed when a former government contractor named Edward Snowden leaked classified information about those government programs to two newspapers. Do you approve or disapprove of Snowden's actions?
18 to 34
Approve: 45 percent
Disapprove: 52 percent
Do you think the U.S. government should or should not attempt to bring Snowden back to this country and prosecute him for leaking that information?
All
Should 54 percent
Should not 42 percent
18 to 34
Should 49 percent
Should not 48 percent
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2013/images/06/17/rel7a.pdf
January 2014:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/01/02/clemency-for-edward-snowden-the-public-is-skeptical
"A self-referential blue linkie to the last time you had this post would have sufficed."
...you went from being afraid of the "blue linkie" to being afraid of the information?
Panties in a bunch, panties in a bunch!
this and the other thread at the top of GD at the same time.
hed still be a traitor so long as he gave classified/secret information to foreign nations...
anyone who thinks snowden is a criminal because of his whistle blowing on domestic spying is a moron...
but that's not the issue that makes him a criminal in some folks mind..
he is a criminal not because he told the truth about domestic spying.. but rather the telling foreign nations part that makes it so....
really not sure whats so hard to understand about that.
but nice ego rant.. hope it , at the very least, made ya feel better
btw, the best way to win any disagreement is with insults, assumptions, and accusations ... so ... good work
"But I'm a little hurt that I didn't get more blue links. "
Here's another.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024640825#post188
Trust me on this.
...after I had a pic I posted hidden by a jury who apparently thought it was too vulgar and gross to display. It was a picture of the bodies of dead children's that had been killed by American missiles. The pic I used was taken from a magazine from 2007.
When I posted it back then, I did indeed receive shocked responses from DUers -- but not asking that it be removed but saying how it was just more terrible evidence of the cruelty and immorality of the Bush Administration and how that was why we needed a Democrat in the WH.
- We're still killing children with the same missiles. But that was then.
K&R
Gadzooks. Might as well rail against The Invertebrate Mammals.
Try harder next time.
if a Republican administration did the same thing - it would be just as wrong. I just can't follow that logic - at all!! 
You laud Snowden and condemn Obama.
And I Quote:
"With all respect: find a fucking mirror."
o the iron knee!
Again. K+R
kick!
Snowden: Giving his colleagues the "front-page test" was "reporting it"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024642573
Snowden is a liar...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024645737#post6
Snowden Inc. ("The strategy: Attention = bargaining power"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024640825#post188
That's what DU feels like on this issue...
I know its my fault, and I lied, and murdered, and conspired... but BREAK A DEAL, FACE THE WHEEL! lol... freaking hilarious.
Don't mind the various Amendments trampled on... nooo. That's nothing next to us being told about it in a way they don't like and during a presidency inconvenient to us. You couldn't make this shit up.
"The Team Obama types who put party ahead of country disgust me
They're practically giddy with the thought of Obama spying on them. Make this a Republican president and they'd change their tune. "
...how could anyone not hate those people ("you people" ? I mean, it's all about creating a bunch of people on DU ("Team Obama" to hate, huh?
Not everyone wants to sing the anti-Obama "tune," and not everyone wants to declare loyalty to Snowden, the criminal, fugitive who is desperate for a plea bargain.
Maybe "a Republican president" will grant him his wish.
"You continue to try to change the narrative to the point of sad humor. This isnt about hating Obama. It's about hating the concept that a government agency would egregiously violate the 4th Ammend."
...I think you're in the wrong thread. The OP is about Snowden and the people who criticize him because he "hurts Obama."
You're the one trying to "change the narrative," and that isn't "sad," it's hilarious.
...your anti-democratic Pro Security/Surveillance State advocacy appears to be counter productive.
You are making it increasingly embarrassing for DU members to agree with you.
Your efforts have only served to highlight the issues,
and those who have weighed the evidence are lining up against you.
Me thinks thou hast protested too much?
(forgive me, William)
Will Pitt's thread at the Top of the Greatest Page,
"You know what cracks me up....and I mean all the way the fuck up"
about you and your handful of Pro-NSA followers:
361 Recs
Your own spittle flinging screed insisting that Snowden is a liar
but glaringly missing any documentation or support for your claim:
39 Recs
Researching these stats,
I discovered that YOU went and kicked your own thread this morning.
Now THAT reeks of desperation.
Beyond pathetic.
Kicking your OWN thread the morning after because nobody else will?
Now THAT is deliciously and pathetically desperate.
Websters could use that for a new definition of "desperately pathetic".
AND,
NOW we are kicking Will's thread!!!
That earns TWO ROFLs:
And your irrational implication that being Anti-Spying on Americans
is (somehow) Anti-Obama?
Really, that should be beneath even you,
but your bar is clearly lower than most.
Would you please connect those dots for those of us who are concerned about a Run Away Spy Agency
that openly LIES to The Senate under oath,
and then just Walks Away laughing...
How do you construe THAT as "Anti-Obama"?
President Obama is hardly mentioned in ANY of these threads,
so grasping at that tiny straw is even MORE pathetic.
Really, Pro.
Hiding behind Supporting the President when what you are really doing is Supporting the NSA
and persecuting Whistle Blowers is transparent....
and pathetic too.
..and while I'm laughing,
can you please explain WTF Venezuela has to do with this topic?
This is just more laughable evidence of blindly flailing around, desperately grasping at anything.
and another Kick for Will's thread:
[font size=3]You know what cracks me up...and I mean all the way the fuck up?[/font
Kicking your OWN thread the morning after because nobody else will?
Now THAT is deliciously and pathetically desperate.
...this one:
Snowden Inc. ("The strategy: Attention = bargaining power"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024643801
"Really, Pro.
Hiding behind Supporting the President when what you are really doing is Supporting the NSA
and persecuting Whistle Blowers is transparent....
and pathetic too. "
Unlike actual whistleblowers, Snowden fucked up. They didn't flea the country and never had to make comments denying that they turned over information to foreign governments:
Edward Snowden snuck a little jab at the government into his appearance at SXSW Interactive on Monday.
Asked if it was just a matter of time before the government could decrypt even the best encryption, the former National Security Agency contractor held up his own case as evidence that encryption works to protect data from surveillance.
"The United States government has assembled a massive investigative team" to look into him and his leak of top secret NSA documents, Snowden said. "And they still have no idea what documents were provided to the journalists, what they have, what they don't have. Because encryption works."
Snowden also suggested that encryption has kept the documents he leaked out of the hands of foreign governments, like Russia and China.
<...>
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/snowden-sxsw-documents-encryption
Direct quote:
<...>
Ed: If I could follow up on that I would say the US government’s investigation supports that. We have both public and private acknowledgements that they know at this point the Russian government, the Chinese government any other government has possession of any of this information. And that would be easy for them to find out. Remember these are the guys that are spying on everyone in the world. They have got human intelligence assets embedded in these governments. They have got electronic signal assets in these governments. If suddenly the Chinese government knew everything the NSA is doing we would notice the changes. We would notice the changes, we would see official communicating and our assets will tell us hey somewhere they have a warehouse they put you know, a thousand of their most skilled researchers in there. That has never happened and it is never going to happen.
http://blog.inside.com/blog/2014/3/10/edward-snowden-sxsw-full-transcription-and-video
Snowden: The U.S. Government has no idea what I gave to journalists in Russia and China, but encryption has kept the leaked documents out of the hands of foreign governments, like Russia and China, whose media are state-owned.
Genius!
Unlike actual whistleblowers, Snowden put himself in the position of having to plea bargain based on his actions that were outside the scope of simply leaking information about domestic surveillance.
From the beginning, it was clear that Snowden broke the law (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023439290). There was a point where even Snowden supporters accepted that he knew he broke the law. Snowden said it himself.
Fleeing the country and releasing state secrets did not help his case.
His actions since then have only made the situation worse.
Whistleblowers have been making that point, some in subtle ways.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023236549
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023035550
Of course, this is dimissed because they're also critical of the NSA. It's as if some think that you can't be against NSA overreach (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023002358) unless you support Snowden. People can acknowledge that the NSA needs reform, and can see where Snowden went off the rails (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024202440)
What's that line thrown out whenever Greenwald is criticized: Were you against Clarke when he went after Bush? Were you for Scooter Libby when he leaked Plame's identity?
Snowden is desperate.
Snowden Inc. ("The strategy: Attention = bargaining power"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024640825#post188
It's right.
Wouldn't you want a top-ranking military official to speak out against the military if the military was committing atrocious acts? Or would you only worry about throwing him/her in prison for "breaking an oath"?
Well...er...phrased. Very natural syntax! 
....but in a gallows humor kind of way.
The desperate antics and contortions of those who would silence The Whistle Blowers,
and help strengthen our anti-democracy Surveillance/Security State are embarrassingly funny,.... but frightening too.
They are "marching", and the destination isn't a pretty one.
I, for one, will NOT go gently into THAT Good Night.
Keep Up the Good Work.
*Rampant Government Secrecy and Democracy can not co-exist.
*Persecution of Whistle Blowers and Democracy can not co-exist.
*Government surveillance of the citizenry and Democracy can not co-exist.
*Secret Laws and Democracy can not co-exist.
*Secret Courts and Democracy can not-co-exist.
*Our Democracy depends on an informed electorate.
You either believe in Democracy,
or you don't.
It IS that simple.
DURec.
That should make some heads explode!
