This would be like US troops in German occupying Berlin.

And, of course:

I would love to see it.

Now scurry on over to Faux Knews, a trusted source to you I'm sure, for the citation.

the wall and station yourself in your neighbor's kitchen.

They have leases for specific bases; everything else in the Crimea is off-limits as it is the sovereign territory of the Ukraine into which the Russians had no legal authorization to enter or patrol.

If you do not understand this, the fault is not everyone else's.

Perhaps you should learn that not everything the Russian government tells you is true.

In the odd chance you have not, here is that link. Please read Articles 6.1 and 8.1

http://ericposner.com/the-1997-black-sea-fleet-agreement-between-russia-and-ukraine/

Its always a pleasure to see that some people have not lost the art of actually doing their research

You LOSE.

As does anyone not waving their pom-poms for Putin and Russia.

The agreement giving garrison rights to various installations not not convey the right to manouver forces at will throughout the district.

What Russia has done is not allowed by the treaty, and is not legal. It amounts to invasion, just as it would amount to invasion of, say, Okinawa, if U.S. forces moved off base under arms without permission for Japanese authorities and took up positions in streets and set up road-blocks and control points, surrounded police stations and municipal buildings, and the the like.

"It's not rocket surgery."

You know better than that.

Does not trouble me in the slightest.

"For the Snark was a Boojum, you see...."

Posted in wrong place. Should have been a reply to Purveyor.

The actual treaty not some editorial.

Now if only I could find the 1992 constitution.

Seriously, what a strange thing to say. The people of Crimea asked the Kremlin for help, troops were already stationed there. Russia has borders and interests to protect itself, wtf would it stand by and not do 'something'? Do you really believe they're too stupid not to realize what's going on? This is 'their' back yard to protect, the people of Crimea mostly identify as Russian. I have to laugh at all of these posts implying Russia should close it's eyes and sit back while doing absolutely nothing.

This sort of 'extrality' used to be more common, and people were accordingly more familiar with its usages and norms than they seem to be today.

Russia is making a standard issue imperialist grab for a territory it has held with only a brief recent interuption as a conquered colony since the late eighteenth century. Crimea had previously existed as an autonomous khanate, considered in the seventeenth century one of the major powers of the region, in a sort of alliance with the Ottoman Sultan. That its population is now mostly Russian is the result of policies reminiscent of those employed in the United States in its dealings with the native population here.

You are certainly free to support imperial expansion by Russia, on the shabby pretext of 'rescuing brother Russians', and even to support restoration of the old Czarist land empire, known in its day as 'the prison of peoples', but you ought to do it with open eyes, and without pretending doing so is an expression of leftism, rather than what it really is, support for old-style imperialism, and alignment with the leading fascist in the world today, Mr. Putin.

gov't and get help from whomever or wherever they need to - 'especially' from the country they feel most represents their own culture. But thanks for your permission, lol.

The Crimean people had excellent reasons for organizing self –defense militias and calling for Russian military aid. According to analyst Brian Becker(“Who’s Who in Ukraine’s New Semi-Fascist Government”, Global Research 05/09/2014), prominent neo-Nazis and right-wing extremists occupy key positions in the Kiev junta. Fascists hold the two top positions in the National Defense Council (controlling the army, police, intelligence and the judiciary); head the Ministry of Defense; control the Prosecutor General; and include one of the Vice Presidents. The Prime Minister, Arseniy Yatsenyuk (‘Yats’), was ‘hand-picked’ by Washington, (as revealed by a secretly recorded conversation between US Under-Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and the US Ambassador to Kiev). He is the ‘front man’ of Ukrainian fascism and NATO penetration.

Dmytro Yarosh, Right Sector neo-Nazi commander who said “our revival begins with our Maidan,” is now second-in-command of the National Defense and Security Council (covering the military, police, courts and intelligence apparatus).

Andriy Parubiy, co-founder of the fascist Social National Party, which later changed its name to Svoboda. He is the new top commander of the National Defense and Security Council.

New Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk, a powerful right-wing banker (and opponent of gay marriage, btw), meets with neo-con John McCain. Pictured center is neo-Nazi Svoboda leader Oleh Tyahnybok, now one of the most powerful figures in the country.

Ihor Tenyukh, member of neo-Nazi Svoboda party, now Minister of Defense.

Oleksandr Sych, member of neo-Nazi Svoboda, is one of three Vice Prime Ministers.

Oleg Makhnitsky, member of neo-Nazi Svoboda, now Prosecutor-General (Attorney General), and has immediately set out to indict the leaders of Crimea who do not want to live under the new order in Kiev.

The new Secretary of the powerful National Defense and Security Council is Andriy Parubiy, is also listed as being from the Fatherland party. But here the murky divide between the right-wing and fascist parties comes into view.

Parubiy’s deputy is Dmytro Yarosh, who was the leader of the fascist Right Sector’s para-military forces in Maidan. In a recent BBC video, a Right Sector leader said: “National socialist [Nazi] ideas are popular here…We want a clean nation, not like under Hitler, but a little bit like that.”

The new Defense Minister is Ihor Tenyukh, former head of the Ukrainian navy and from the Svoboda party. Oleksandr Sych, also from Svoboda, is one of three Vice Prime Ministers.

Another key post held by an open Svoboda member is that of Prosecutor-General. Oleg Makhnitsky is now the equivalent of Attorney General in the U.S., and has immediately set out to indict the leaders of Crimea who do not want to live under the new order in Kiev.

The new, self-appointed government in Kiev is a coalition between right-wing and outright fascist forces, and the line between the two is often difficult to discern.

Svoboda also holds the ministries of ecology and, especially critical in the Ukraine, agriculture in the new government.

Though not named as a government minister—clearly by choice—Oleh Tyahnybok is the leader of Svoboda, of which he was also a co-founder when it was known as the Social National Party. Now he is one of the most powerful figures in the country.

While Tyahnybok sought to moderate Svoboda’s public image beginning with the name change in 2004, a speech he gave the same year showed just how paper-thin that cover was.

Speaking at memorial to a commander of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UIA) that collaborated with the Nazis and massacred tens of thousands of Poles, Jews and communists, he called for Ukrainians to fight the “Muscovite-Jewish mafia” which he claimed were running the country.

Tyahnybok praised the UIA and the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists led by Stepan Bandera, who “fought against the Russians, Germans, Jews and other scum who wanted to take away our Ukrainian state.” (For the terms “Russians” and “Jews,” he substituted extremely derogatory slurs).

In 2005, Tyahnybok signed an open letter to Ukraine leaders denouncing the “criminal activities” of “organized Jewry” who, he claimed, wanted to commit “genocide” against Ukrainian people.

Support for the fascists is surging in the Ukraine. In 2006, Svoboda received .36 of 1 percent in the elections; in 2012 it became the fourth largest party in the Rada (parliament) with 10.45 percent of the vote and 37 seats out of 450. In a public opinion poll taken at the beginning of February, 54 percent said they would vote for Tyahnybok for president if he ran against Yanukovych. (The poll was held three weeks before the overthrow of Yanukovych.)

The smiling faces of Victoria Nuland and Sen. John McCain, among other U.S. officials, have appeared in countless photos with Tyahnybok in recent months.

http://alternative-news-network.net/whos-who-in-ukraines-new-semi-fascist-government-meet-the-people-the-u-s-and-eu-are-supporting/

That seems to be the gist of your argument, actually, since you do not bother to deny that Mr. Putin is a fascist and his government is a fascist government.

It is also worth noting that you continue averting your eyes from the history of the region, and the fact that its present population is what it is owing to massacre and deportation and colonial settlement.

problem with the newly selected Ukraine fascists though) - I support a 'people' having the right to be protected from a "gov't" they fear and who has already threatened them. It's not rocket science, ffs.

You may deny it all you like, but will convince no one your denial should be taken seriously.

for Iraq.

Not a problem, some of us have gotten past letting that be anything but funny long ago.

You are aligning yourself with an imperialist land-grab conducted by the world's leading fascist ruler.

It is up to you to square that with whatever your political beliefs might be.

I was no supporter of invading Iraq, and had no trouble making arguments against doing so that did echo the claims of Hussein and his government as the thing progressed. And in point of fact, there was an element among the opponents of invading Iraq who did couch their arguments in terms that were tantamount to defending Hussein, claiming that he had not carried out various atrocities and that his rule was popular with all elements of Iraqi society.

I just said - it's with the people of Crimea. Sorry you have the need to twist the words of others to make some sort of point, it must get tiring.

But hey ...... I 'loved' Qaddafi, Hussein, and even Chavez!, so adding in Putin's really not that big of a deal. You're forgiven.

"Who you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?"

To tell a lie means to tell a deliberate false-hood.

I have simply pointed out which of the sides you support in this matter, and you support the actions and political line of Mr. Putin, the world's leading fascist ruler, in this question of Russia's moving to occupy and probably annex the Crimea. That is a statement of plain, readily observable fact, accurate in all particulars.

"To tell a lie means to tell a deliberate false-hood." - Which you've done over and over, twisting what I've said. It's pathetic, but no worries ....... I knew when you called me a Putin lover you didn't have anything else.

'Accurate statement of fact' means something very different from 'lie'.

You may attempt to personate the renowned caterpillar in Wonderland, but I would lay investment grade odds you have not got the stuffing to pull it off successfully.

So we are left with the flat statement of fact, which is that you support Russian occupation of of Crimea, and in doing so avail yourself of the identical arguments employed by the Russian government, which is beyond dispute a fascist body engaged in an imperialist venture, under the leadership of Mr. Putin, the leading fascist in the world today. Or, in short, that you align yourself with Mr. Putin on the question of Russian occupation of the Crimea.

fascist coups meant to turn unwilling millions in an autonomous zone into the poverty-slaves of the IMF and it's brutal austerity, plus all of the other crap they've already threatened them with? Really, should I give a flying fuck what you think about ME? Twist and spin what I've said all you like, I support the people of Crimea AND all those in Ukraine who no more deserve this bullshit than they do in Greece, Libya or anywhere else.

I'm not the one supporting fascists ........... you are.

You have ranged yourself alongside the world's premier fascist, Mr. Putin, in full-throat support of his imperialist adventurings in Crimea, and possibly even in Ukraine proper.

I have indicated support for nothing in particular in the matter. I have figured from the start of it Russia was likely to emerge with the Crimea, but do not see any reason why this imperialist venture under a fascist ruler should not be called what it is, or that it should come cheap to them. I am certainly sympathetic to the widespread desire among Ukrainians to reject any vestige of Russian control or dominating influence over their country. I recognize that when matters come to a violent pitch, hard men come to the fore, and that many among them will be unsuited to polite company. In the general matter of extending NATO and EU influence eastwards, I am not too supportive of that policy, considering it a recipe for trouble with a country that is still a formidable military power and labors under a sense of humiliation and wounded pride. But the desire of peoples who long endured Russian and Soviet rule to be free its least vestige, and to have some assurance against its ever returning, I find perfectly understandable, and recognize will also be a very influential factor in events.

times you do it. I was told by a juror to 'just walk away' in an alerted post of mine towards you ........ so, carry on. Not sure how you get away with the personal insults and twisting of my posts to somehow bolster your support of a brutal fascist coup that benefits the IMF and its brutal austerity against a people who don't choose it, but whatever .... you must just be special that way.

I am glad it was not taken down; I always prefer to let someone's statements stand to demonstrate just how poorly they are handling a matter like this.

What I find most impressive is not your maintaining so vehemently black is white, but that you have managed to know so little about the subject you are attempting comment on....

But that has been covered in some of the best reporting on the matter to date:


“The very real threat of a Russia-Ukraine war has completely polarized the general public, pitting two deeply entrenched blocs against one another: those who have absolutely no clue what they’re talking about and those who couldn’t care less,” said Pew spokesman Andrew Collins, noting that the ouster of Ukraine’s president Viktor Yanukovych and Russia’s subsequent occupation of Crimea has inflamed tensions between the two sides to a level unseen since the height of the war in Syria. “This is not a distinctly regional or socioeconomic split, either. We’re seeing local workplaces, friends, even families ripped in two by their desire to either ignore the whole thing completely or spout an inane, half-witted opinion on it like they’re some geopolitical expert.”

http://www.theonion.com/articles/ukrainianrussian-tensions-dividing-us-citizens-alo,35428/

before you...

"I was told by a juror to 'just walk away' in an alerted post of mine towards you."

All I know is open text from Ms. Polly7. Without her comment I would have had no idea one of her posts was alerted on.

Besides you being completely clueless about what I know about ....... your own knowledge of the situation seems quite lacking, actually .... and reminds me so much of all those I argued with who were so sure of the greatness of the Iraq invasion, the Libya fiasco, etc., and now this. I'm quite proud that I've never supported the suffering of any people for the benefit of the few at the top, as you seem to.

You should do a bit more research and stop relying so much on your smug, condescending and boring little insults.

"History is just one damned thing after another."

"I'm never lost. People are always telling me where to go."

Pomposity and condescension get really tiring after about 5 minutes or so. And btw, I don't like being called Ma'am, I've told you that before .... is it alright if I call you asshole?

"Bless his heart, but his brain could roll around on the head of a pin like a pea on a four lane highway."

I don't take it from any man - calling me 'dear', 'little lady', etc. etc. etc. You may think you're hilarious, but you're coming pretty close to being a sexist bigot here. I'd watch yourself.

I also don't care about your pin-head.

"As you make your bed, so you'll lie there,
But who'll tuck you in when you do?
And if someone steps up, I'll be that one.
And if someone gets stepped on that one's you."

Aren't you special.

In one search it's clear what is going on without walls of conspiracy text. On phone or I would link.

... I will take your comments into consideration.

Carnival in Crimea

THE ROVING EYE
Carnival in Crimea
By Pepe Escobar

Time waits for no one, but apparently will wait for Crimea. The speaker of the Crimean parliament, Vladimir Konstantinov, has confirmed there will be a referendum on greater autonomy from Ukraine on May 25.

Until then, Crimea will be as hot and steamy as carnival in Rio - because Crimea is all about Sevastopol, the port of call for the Russian Black Sea fleet.

If the North Atlantic Treaty Organization is a bull, this is the red flag to end all red flags. Even if you're deep in alcohol nirvana dancin' your troubles away at carnival in Rio - or New Orleans, or Venice, or Trinidad and Tobago - your brain will have registered that NATO's ultimate wet dream is to command a Western puppet Ukrainian government to kick the Russian navy out of its base in Sevastopol. The negotiated lease applies until 2042. Threats and rumors of reneging it have already emerged.

The absolute majority of the Crimean peninsula is populated by Russian speakers. Very few Ukrainians live there. In 1954, it took only 15 minutes for Ukrainian Nikita Krushchev - he of the banging shoe at the UN floor - to give Crimea as a free gift to Ukraine (then part of the USSR). In Russia, Crimea is perceived as Russian. Nothing will change that fact.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-05-280214.html


Pro-Russian Crimeans welcome Moscow's decision to send troops

Pro-Russian residents in Crimea's largest cities have shown their approval for Moscow's decision to send additional troops to the Ukrainian peninsula. But not everyone is happy that the crisis has taken this turn.

http://www.dw.de/image/0,,17467431_303,00.jpg
Cars flying Russian flags passed cheering people on the streets of Sevastopol and Simferopol on Saturday (01.03.2014) as pro-Russian Crimeans welcomed the unanimous decision by the Russian parliament to approve the use of the armed forces in Ukraine.

The news followed an earlier decision to move up a referendum on the status of the semi-autonomous region from May 25 to March 30, a decision that was greeted with enthusiasm by Crimea's Russian community, who make up about 60 percent of the population. The referendum could be the first step towards greater independence for the peninsula, and could lead to a possible secession from Ukraine or even a decision to join the Russian Federation.

Symbol of bravery

On Saturday, mass rallies were held in Crimea's two major cities. In Sevastopol, a crowd estimated at more than 5,000 people gathered in the main square, not far from the city's administration building.

Pro-Russian residents of Sevastopol wear the St. George's Ribbon

Many Crimeans have been waving Russian flags and wearing the St. George's Ribbon

They chanted "Rossiya, Rossiya!" and many wore the St. George's Ribbon, a well-known Russian symbol of military valor that is worn in remembrance of the victory over Nazi Germany. In 1941-1942, the seaport of Sevastopol was the scene of one of the fiercest battles of World War II. Russia's Black Sea Fleet is still stationed in the city today under a lease agreement with the Ukrainian government.
Rarely has the atmosphere here been so politically charged. In cafes, grocery stores and on the street, politics is all anyone talks about. Until very recently, it was completely different. "Normally, it's very, very quiet," said Galina, a small business owner. "We stayed silent during the protests in Kyiv, up until the new government decided to overturn the language law. That was the last straw.
Suddenly, 30,000 people filled this square."

http://www.dw.de/pro-russian-crimeans-welcome-moscows-decision-to-send-troops/a-17467545

The Russian Stronghold in Ukraine Preparing to Fight the Revolution

Lawmakers and worried citizens in the pro-Russia Crimea consider their options

By Simon Shuster / Sevastopol @shustryFeb. 23, 2014525

A Ukrainian woman holds a Soviet flag during a rally in the industrial city of Donetsk, in eastern Ukraine, on Feb. 22, 2014
The busload of officers only began to feel safe when they entered the Crimean peninsula. Through the night on Friday, they drove the length of Ukraine from north to south, having abandoned the capital city of Kiev to the revolution. Along the way the protesters in several towns pelted their bus with eggs, rocks and, at one point, what looked to be blood before the retreating officers realized it was only ketchup. “People were screaming, cursing at us,” recalls one of the policemen, Vlad Roditelev.

Finally, on Saturday morning, the bus reached the refuge of Crimea, the only chunk of Ukraine where the revolution has failed to take hold. Connected to the mainland by two narrow passes, this huge peninsula on the Black Sea has long been a land apart, an island of Russian nationalism in a nation drifting toward Europe. One of its biggest cities, Sevastopol, is home to a Russian naval base that houses around 25,000 troops, and most Crimean residents identify themselves as Russians, not Ukrainians.

So when the forces of the revolution took over the national parliament on Friday, pledging to rid Ukraine of Russian influence and integrate with Europe, the people of Crimea panicked. Some began to form militias, others sent distress calls to the Kremlin. And if the officers of the Berkut riot police are now despised throughout the rest of the country for killing dozens of protesters in Kiev this week, they were welcomed in Crimea as heroes.

For Ukraine’s revolutionary leaders, that presents an urgent problem. In a matter of days, their sympathizers managed to seize nearly the entire country, including some of the most staunchly pro-Russian regions of eastern Ukraine. But they have made barely any headway on the Crimean peninsula. On the contrary, the revolution has given the ethnic Russian majority in Crimea their best chance ever to break away from Kiev’s rule and come back under the control of Russia. “An opportunity like this has never come along,” says Tatyana Yermakova, the head of the Russian Community of Sevastopol, a civil-society group in Crimea.

Read more: Crimea, Russian Stronghold in Ukraine, Is Ready to Fight Revolution | TIME.com http://world.time.com/2014/02/23/the-russian-stronghold-in-ukraine-preparing-to-fight-the-revolution/#ixzz2upQsd8u7
http://world.time.com/2014/02/23/the-russian-stronghold-in-ukraine-preparing-to-fight-the-revolution/
http://www.trbimg.com/img-5311cfa7/turbine/lat-crimearussianflags-wre0015647375-20140301/600

Pro-Russia demonstrators wave the colors of Russian military valor at an anti-American rally in Simferopol, in the Crimea region of Ukraine. The sign says, "We will free Ukraine from American occupation." (Sean Gallup, Getty Images / March 1, 2014)

By Sergei L. Loiko
March 1, 2014, 4:36 a.m.

KIEV, Ukraine -- Crimea's new pro-Moscow premier, Sergei Aksenov, moved the date of the peninsula's status referendum to March 30.
On Thursday, the Crimean parliament, which appointed Aksenov, had called for a referendum on May 25, the date also set for the urgent presidential election in Ukraine.

“In connection with a necessity we decided to speed up the holding of the referendum on the stauts of the Autonomous Republic of the Crimea,” Aksenov said Saturday in Simferopol at a new government session, the UNIAN information agency reported.

Earlier that day, Aksenov, head of the nationalist Russian Unity organization, appealed to Russian President Vladimir Putin “to render assistance in securing peace and tranquility on the territory of the Autonomous Republic of the Crimea," UNIAN reported.
http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-crimea-referendum-date-20140301,0,2305350.story#ixzz2upSDz443


http://zcomm.org/znetarticle/ukraine-revolts-dark-side/

Ukraine Revolt’s Dark Side

By Conn Hallinan
Source: Dispatches From The Edge
March 3, 2014

......"Svoboda would stop immigration and reserve civil service jobs for “ethnic Ukrainians.” It would end abortion, gun control, “ban the Communist Ideology,” and list religious affiliation and ethnicity on identity documents. It claims as its mentor the Nazi-collaborator Stephan Bandera, whose Ukrainian Insurgent Army massacred Jews and Poles during World war II. The Party’s demand that all official business be conducted in Ukrainian was recently endorsed by the parliament, disenfranchising 30 percent of the country’s population that speaks Russian. Russian speakers are generally concentrated in the Ukraine’s east and south, and particularly in the Crimean Peninsula.

The U.S. and the EU have hailed the resignation of President Yanukovych and the triumph of “people power” over the elected government – Ambassador Pyatt called it “a day for the history books” –but what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

Prior to the deployment of Russian troops this past week anti-coup, pro-Russian crowds massed in the streets in the Crimea’s capital, Simferopol, and seized government buildings. While there was little support for the ousted president-who most Ukrainians believe is corrupt-there was deep anger at the de-recognition of the Russian language and contempt for what many said were “fascists” in Kiev and Lviv."

The Black Sea Fleet (Russian: Черноморский Флот, Chernomorsky Flot) is a large operational-strategic sub-unit of the Russian (and formerly Soviet) Navy, operating in the Black Sea and the Mediterranean Sea since the late 18th century. Its ships are based in various harbors of the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov, while its aviation and infrastructure is based in various locations in Crimea, Ukraine and Krasnodar Krai, Russia.

Joint Fleet and its partition
To ease the tensions, the two governments signed an interim treaty, establishing a joint Russo-Ukrainian Black Sea Fleet under bilateral command (and Soviet Navy flag) until a full-scale partition agreement could be reached. Formally, the Fleet's Commander was to be appointed by a joint order of the two countries' Presidents. However, Russia still dominated the Fleet unofficially, and a Russian admiral was appointed as Commander; the majority of the fleet personnel adopted Russian citizenship. Minor tensions between the Fleet and the new Ukrainian Navy (such as electricity cut-offs and sailors' street-fighting) continued.

Some major ships (including the flagship) of the Soviet and Russian Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol, August 2007
In 1997, Russia and Ukraine signed the Partition Treaty, establishing two independent national fleets and dividing armaments and bases between them. Ukraine also agreed to lease major parts of its new bases to the Russian Black Sea Fleet until 2017. However, the treaty appeared to be far from perfect: permanent tensions on the lease details (including often reported issue of lighthouses) control continued. The Fleet's main base is still situated in the Crimean port city of Sevastopol. In 2009 the Yushchenko Ukrainian government declared that the lease would not be extended and that the fleet would have to leave Sevastopol by 2017. However, in 2010 the Russian leasehold was renegotiated with an extension until 2042 and an option for an additional five years until 2047 (see below).

Got it.

NATO no-fly-zone and cheered on the atrocities that followed based on what was later proven to be LIES in Libya.

I thought you'd be the FIRST to want a people calling out for help sent aid, what's up with that, Josh?

Oh yes I remember people calling for a three state solution there. I suppose splitting up states is a fetish for some.

But anyway, one you bring this up it's clear you have no argument. Read up on Dugin. Putin is following his philosophy to a tee.

and the U.S. was hypocritical for being against the invasion because of Iraq. Now opponents of Bush's illegal Iraq invasion are trying to justify an illegal invasion.

"They believed nothing they could not prove, and could prove everything they believed."

I think that'd be funny but I can't find it.

I swear to god this shit is more and more convoluted. Up is down.

Iraq war. Of course that excludes H. Clinton-Sachs.

Not decrying them. Give me a fucking break. The neocons are calling Putin a greater leader than Obama for crying out loud.

What has happened is that the pro- occupation/invasion crowd has managed to convince themselves that Russia is 100% in the right because the US says it is wrong. They 're like the tea party that way--Obama condemns Russian actions, so they adopt mindless support of Russia as the only acceptable position.

US = bad

anything hurts the US = good

Except their view is so myopic they don't understand that Putin's actions hurt Russia more than they hurt the US. The US is probably glad Putin has boxed himself in like he has done.

it's to set the people free. Just like Iraq. But it's American imperialism plane and simple.

plane ( sic) and simple.

Russia is the one who engaged in armed aggression by illegally occupying Crimea . Not the US, or EU, Russia .

Stop trying to shift the blame from where the obvious facts point.

Why on Earth would you think that?

I do think, however, Ukraine would be correct in defending eastern Ukraine. However futile that would be.

And the blood would be all on Putin's hands.

those who disagreed with the OP.

You use the term 'neocon' to smear people for disagreeing with you, not because they are calling for war (they are not).

You wrote:

That is the new language we have to deal with around here.

It's pathetic.

Why on Earth would you think that? Because I disagree with a warmonger?

They like big daddy to tell everyone what to do, and they don't like to think for themselves.

They consider Obama weak for his efforts for diplomacy above all else. Kerry has been a great Secretary of State, challenging preconceived Bush-era diplomatic notions from the start. Syria, for example, was a great success of diplomacy, with the country disarming its chemical weapons stockpiles.

It will be interesting to watch the cons when McCain arrives in Kiev next week.

Frankly, the neo-cons and the hate-Obama-more-than-Satan crowd can bludgeon each other to death for all I care.

He wants the east/west divide to happen because it will validate his notions about Ukrainians. Already anti-war protesters in east Ukraine have been murdered. Anti-war protesters in Russia have been kidnapped and beaten. This drives the neocons, this is what they want, and of course, it's happening.

Would it be that the neocons and Obama detractors were on opposite sides, at least then I could take solace, but no, they're on the same side. The side of Putin.

up every word Vladimir Putin says.

Just because one criticizes Vladimir Putin does not mean one wants war with Vladimir Putin.

Sad that this needs to be explained.

I think that some here are glad for the distraction from the Pres support for the TPP, fracking, oil pipelines, etc.

I wonder how H. Clinton-Sachs stands on war with Russia. She had no problem with Bush's war on Iraq.

aggression with beating the war drums.

The OP was a verbatim quote of Russian propaganda justifying its illegal actions.

Pointing out the falsity of Russian government propaganda is not 'beating the war drums.' It's being honest.

Do not hide behind bogus insults hurled at those telling the truth here.

It's like old times!

Just like old times again

Next up "Good News Week" with the same professional singers, just different costumes lol

Now we do know. Russia is basically flaunting the treaty and they know if they admit that they're Russian soldiers that it would be illegal, so they're trying to pass it off as a "security force."

I also posted the Google cache of the treaty in Russian which Google can translate.

Read particularly 6.1 and 8.2

Game, set, match.

Team Putin loses, again.

never mind that pesky Budapest Memorandum, totally irellevant, right?

For any fascist supporters around.

many.

Post 21 has a link to it.

Last edited Fri Mar 14, 2014, 12:34 AM - Edit history (2)

I've searched for both English and Russian text to no avail, and it would be in Russian and possibly Ukrainian languages anyway. Maybe a little too old to make it into the Slavic cyber age.

These "selected articles" are the result of "the heroic efforts of the University of Chicago law librarian, Lyonette Louis-Jacques" according to the Eric Posner site.

Edit: Actually, it looks like the Posner site has a link to the treaty itself housed on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation web site but the document has been deleted.