General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWill the Trayvon Martin shooting open a dialogue about race relations between Hispanics and Blacks?
This is an issue that has long been just below the surface of American culture, and this tragedy should bring it out of the shadows. George Zimmerman, who is Hispanic, shot and killed Trayvon Martin, who is Black. Many people believe that Zimmerman was motivated by racism, and that he should be charged with a hate crime for killing Martin. Relations between Blacks and Hispanics have at times been strained, and things could potentially get worse as the Hispanic population in America continues to grow.
http://www.economist.com/node/9587776
Last year Pew, a pollster, found that one-third of blacks believe immigrants take jobs from Americansmore than any other group. Yet in some ways their views were benign. Blacks are less likely than whites or even Hispanics to believe that immigrants end up on welfare or commit crimes. Latinos, on the other hand, appear to make no such concessions. One survey of Durham, in North Carolina, found that 59% of Latinos believed few or almost no blacks were hard-working, and a similar proportion reckoned few or almost none could be trusted. Fewer than one in ten whites felt the same way.
So far, rivalry between blacks and Hispanics has been a mostly working-class affair. But Earl Ofari Hutchinson, who is writing a book on black-Latino relations, reckons that is likely to change. Latinos are already so entrenched in some manual trades that it is hard to see how they can become more dominant. In construction, for example, they account for a quarter of the national workforce and outnumber blacks almost five to one. The next citadels to be stormed will be white-collar, largely female preserves such as public administration, education and health.
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/713/blacks-hispanics
While blacks and Hispanics hold broadly favorable views of each other, Hispanics are less likely to say the two groups get along well. At the same time, African Americans are far more likely than Latinos to say blacks are frequently the victims of racial discrimination, according to a recent survey of racial and ethnic attitudes by the Pew Research Center.
The country's two largest and most powerful minority groups also disagree on other issues that strike close to the heart of many blacks and Hispanics, though these differences are generally modest. Notably, blacks are more likely to say the situation for African Americans is worse today than it was five or even 10 years ago. Nearly half of all blacks also say immigrants reduce job opportunities for blacks, while fewer than four-in-10 Hispanics agree.
But some differences begin to emerge when blacks and Hispanics are asked how well the two groups get along. A majority of blacks (70%), but a smaller share of Hispanics (57%), say the groups get along very or fairly well. At the same time, Hispanics are significantly more likely than blacks to say that inter-group relations are strained (30% vs. 18%). Whites are roughly equally divided, with nearly four-in-10 (39%) saying that blacks and Hispanics get along well, 32% saying they do not, while nearly as many express no opinion.
This "perception gap" on inter-group relations persists even when controlling for socio-economic status. For example, 63% of all better-educated Hispanics -- those who had attended college -- say blacks and Latinos get along well, compared with 73% of similarly educated blacks. That's a 10-point difference -- little different than the overall 13-point gap between the two groups. Similar differences emerge in most age and income categories as well.
http://www.dailypress.com/bv-hispanics010320,0,4967522.story
In a region where race relations traditionally have been defined in terms of Black and White, an influx of immigrants to the Deep South in the last decade has upset the delicate cultural balance and created tensions among longtime residents and new ethnic groups. The changing demographics have forced the South to again confront its prejudices as it becomes home to unfamiliar cultures. This time, however, the resistance has come not only from whites, but the region's largest minority group, African-Americans.
In Georgia, Black legislators recently defeated a bill supported by the governor to broaden the state's "minority" designation to include Hispanics. The bill would have allowed Hispanics, whose population in Georgia increased by at least 120 percent since 1990, to be included in tax breaks for companies that hire minority contractors.
The fight focused attention on the mounting tension between Blacks and Hispanics, who rival African-Americans as the largest minority group in the U.S.
"We were not comfortable amending laws that originally were passed to aid racial minorities, such as African-Americans and Native Americans, who have a long history of being discriminated against," said Rep. Bob Holmes, a member of the state's Legislative Black Caucus. "There is growing competition between Blacks and Hispanics, and in the South, it is going to get worse. We know that they have escaped from poverty and we want them to have a better life here, but not at the expense of African-Americans."
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Zimmerman has a Peruvian mother, I understand, and a Caucasian father (with a German sounding last name). He was raised in Virginia, not Florida, He may have Hispanic heritage from his mother's side, but his race is white.
He's hardly the poster boy for "the Hispanic" or "Latino" POV. He's got other stuff going on.
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)How can you say he is white when no one has seen a picture of his mother? He appears to be mixed.
http://fulbrighthayesperu.wordpress.com/2011/07/06/mestizo/
MADem
(135,425 posts)We know that "Hispanic" is not a race, so his family's characterization is not illuminating. The police have had the guy's back thus far, and they call him white.
http://articles.cnn.com/2012-03-22/justice/justice_florida-teen-zimmerman_1_law-enforcement-officers-investigation-shot?_s=PM:JUSTICE
A police report describes Zimmerman as white; his family says he is Hispanic and he has wrongly been described as a racist. Martin was African-American.
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)The one thing we do know is the degree of police incompetency. They've been wrong about everything so why give any credence to their opinion that he is white?
MADem
(135,425 posts)when they drug/alcohol tested the corpse and not the shooter. That was absolute competence working--they were hoping to find the dead child "guilty" by bloodwork. Imagine their disappointment.
Zimmerman isn't a stranger to them--he called them almost fifty times in the past year. They know him. They covered for him.
I absolutely give credence to their description of him, because I am quite sure that's his description of himself. Again--hispanic is NOT a race, it is an ETHNICITY.
Don't confuse mendacity with incompetence. They knew what they were doing. Politely put, they were engaging in a cover up to benefit their white--or white enough-- buddy, George Zimmerman.
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)charged with assaulting an officer?
MADem
(135,425 posts)Maybe they accepted his tearful, heartfelt apology? Maybe they liked the fact that he wandered around like an asshole martinet with a gun, so they didn't have to patrol his funky neighborhood? Who knows?
What we do know is that this guy was KNOWN to the police, and they were accustomed to hearing from Mister Unsanctioned Neighborhood Watch on a regular basis.
What we also know is that they drug and alcohol tested the dead kid with the candy and iced tea, and they didn't do that to their pal George. If that doesn't demonstrate some kind of bias--that very omission alone--I don't know what does. There's no way anyone can turn back the hands of time and find out what might have been in Big Georgie's bloodstream when he shot that child.
They also didn't arrest him on suspicion of murder or manslaughter. I mean, come on--they had the 911 tapes. When Jeb Frigging Bush insists that the guy had no right to be pursing that kid, how much "judgment" needs to be applied before a logical decision to take law enforcement action is made?
The police were covering for the Vigilante Zimmerman--and they were doing it because they thought they could get away with letting their pal go free. They may have done this previously, successfully, and were emboldened as a consequence.
Neue Regel
(221 posts)If he is 50% Hispanic and 50% white then he is certainly within his rights to decide how to self-identify. If Zimmerman and his family say he is Hispanic, who are we to attempt to dispute it, and to what end?
MADem
(135,425 posts)I can't believe, in the 21st Century, that anyone would actually still think that "Hispanic" is a racial grouping. "Hispanics" can be of any race at all.
Neue Regel
(221 posts)There is friction between Black people and Hispanic people. I wonder if the Trayvon Martin shooting will open a dialogue about ethnic relations between Hispanics and Blacks?
MADem
(135,425 posts)Hispanic people:
This is about a guy with gun shooting a teen-ager because he profiled him and pursued him as a consequence of his race. If there's any discussion, it should be that profiling people, no matter who does it, based solely on their race is just wrong.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)There has been serious friction for several decades, at least here in SoCal.
Programs originally targeted for African-Americans have been used by Hispanics, Southeast Asians and others. Some groups have used those programs to surpass other groups academically and financially.
Hispanic specific political action groups, complete with racial overtones (La Raza and others) have been active in redistricting, cutting into traditional black districts and representation.
In in the greater Los Angeles area, Hispanic gangs are pounding the African-American gangs, taking away turf and markets.
There is also been factionalism amongst the African-American community between the urban core, and rural/suburban members, and recent immigrants.
While some have tried to unite the various minorities factions but right now it seems to me that they are mostly fighting each other.
Rapprochement? Not in our lifetime...
UTUSN
(70,725 posts)Solomon
(12,319 posts)relations.
Response to Neue Regel (Original post)
Ter This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to Neue Regel (Original post)
Ter This message was self-deleted by its author.
Ter
(4,281 posts)n/t
RZM
(8,556 posts)Case in point, these very famous and very different Rosenbergs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Rosenberg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Rosenberg
I've known 'Zimmers' and 'Zimmermans' who were both Jewish and gentile.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Dew yew hav a rhew'm?
Thought I had put that in the reply. But I guess not. It was late
MADem
(135,425 posts)routine from the Peter Sellers film!
gulliver
(13,186 posts)I don't doubt that Latinos know that the victim could just as easily have been Latino. The Republicans have whipped up a major storm of crime allegations against Latinos. Crime statistics keep going down, but Republicans are so anxious to take a hard line on immigration that they "make shit up." For example, recall Republican Governor Jan Brewer and her claims that police had been finding decapitated bodies and so forth.
Most of the consensus on the Trayvon Martin case looks like it is leading to Florida's Republican-engineered "Stand Your Ground" law. Gun owners are apoplectic. They don't want to be blamed and shouldn't be. Latinos certainly don't want to be blamed either and shouldn't be. Zimmerman's father wasn't saying Zimmerman was Latino to make him look more racist. I certainly hope you are not implying Latino racism with your post.
Republicans apparently didn't see what a dangerous mess they were making for law abiding people when Republican Governor Jeb Bush signed the ill-conceived, incompetent SYG law. Who would have expected the brother of George W. Bush to screw something up? (Don't answer that.)
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)The Mariachi anthem is a love song to a black woman. That "dialogue" is hundreds of years old and ongoing.
Zalatix
(8,994 posts)The rich are banking on the inability of minority groups to work together. Arggggggh!!!