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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJimmy Carter Leaves Church Over Treatment of Women
The question for Carter -- and for others who find themselves at odds with leadership -- is, when a group you're deeply involved in starts to move away from your own core beliefs, do you stay and try to change from within or, at some point, do you have to look for the exit? Carter did give the former a shot -- in recent years publicly criticizing and distancing himself from church leadership, while staying involved with his church. Now, he's seeing if absence might do what presence did not.
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/07/20/jimmy-carter-leaves-church-over-treatment-of-women/
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)Stay, go, it doesn't matter. The church will go on. Look at all the people that have left the catholic church over the centuries. Has it gotten "better" or just different?
ashling
(25,771 posts)I do care about Jimmy Carter
rgbecker
(4,832 posts)Said Carter in an essay in The Age:
At its most repugnant, the belief that women must be subjugated to the wishes of men excuses slavery, violence, forced prostitution, genital mutilation and national laws that omit rape as a crime. But it also costs many millions of girls and women control over their own bodies and lives, and continues to deny them fair access to education, health, employment and influence within their own communities.
And, later:
The truth is that male religious leaders have had -- and still have -- an option to interpret holy teachings either to exalt or subjugate women. They have, for their own selfish ends, overwhelmingly chosen the latter. Their continuing choice provides the foundation or justification for much of the pervasive persecution and abuse of women throughout the world.
azureblue
(2,146 posts)The Baptists were the ones responsible for the separation of church and state clause.
They used the Bible to Justify slavery
They use the Bible to justify male dominance of women
They use the Bible to justify segregation
They use the Bible to justify their belief that Blacks are inferior. Check where the Klan was borne, and what religious denomination's followers founded the Klan.
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)In my opinion, that is an improvement.
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)pscot
(21,024 posts)Yuck!
Response to pscot (Reply #34)
Post removed
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)I don't.
tavalon
(27,985 posts)Good on him.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)arthritisR_US
(7,288 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)4_TN_TITANS
(2,977 posts)and she's only 16. She picked him for a school report once and quickly recognized that he's one of the most impressive men of her lifetime.
I have always had utmost respect for President Jimmy Carter. He really earns it too.
President Carter!
arthritisR_US
(7,288 posts)maddiemom
(5,106 posts)for History to begin reevaluating and judging him fairly. President Carter was one of the truly finest men ever to serve in that office. Sadly it proved that a really good man could not survive as POTUS. Although I am Agnostic, I feel he was also the only true Christian among the wannabe leaders in current times.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)Horse with no Name
(33,956 posts)dotymed
(5,610 posts)Reagan was paying the Iranians to hold the hostages until after the election. The BFEE was encouraging the oil boycott to ruin Carter's popularity at home.
Knowing the facts, after all of these years, it is incredible (and totally in character) that none of the people calling the shots, were ever prosecuted. Reagan(and Bush) committed more crimes to get elected than Nixon did during his entire Presidency. The difference was/is our media. When nixon was in office they were still "the fourth estate." Reporting political crimes and keeping our citizens informed. Reagan changed all of that. I assume that he promised the media that he would end THE FAIRNESS DOCTRINE, which leveled the playing field and did create extra financial hardships on the media.
Ending this vital rule also played a significant role in where the U.S. is today. By and for the elites. Only a peoples revolution like "Occupy" can change the tyranny that has taken over America.
lovuian
(19,362 posts)congrats Jimmy
enough
(13,259 posts)Well done.
Arctic Dave
(13,812 posts)Hats off.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Most excellent, sir.
malaise
(269,054 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)xchrom
(108,903 posts)We will welcome you with open arms and great music.
zazen
(2,978 posts)That was my recollection of it in Wilmington. However, if you can recommend a favorite Episcopalian church in the Triangle, I'm all ears.
And go Jimmy. The man was 50 years ahead of his time. It's so telling that the faux Christians can't stand him.
xchrom
(108,903 posts)Takes an Anglican to really make fun of an Anglican.
St. Stephens in durham is the one I know about - & they affiliate w/ the big church in Raleigh.
Both take booths at lgbtiq pride.
The ONLY thing is they do this baptized Christian thing to receive communion that I STRONGLY disapprove of.
I come from Cali where we were All are Welcome to Gods Table.
mwooldri
(10,303 posts)In general Church of England churches follow this rule... but as is the case with different Anglican Communion churches, they have different interpretations. Some Anglican communions welcome everyone to Gods table to receive Communion. However I agree that most of the Anglican churches I have attended do have a "are you baptized" thing before being eligible to receive full Communion. But those churches who are strict proponents of baptized only do invite all to the altar and everyone is blessed. I am confirmed in the Church of England but there are times for my own conscience that I deny myself full communion and ask for a blessing only. But that is because I went to a church where confirmation is typically required before receiving communion - not even plain old baptism will do. Though this general baptism thing is whether you are baptised in any church, not just an Anglican communion one, or one in communion with the Anglican communion (i.e. Lutherans, most Methodists these days, and others).
wryter2000
(46,051 posts)There are regressive Episcopalian churches that don't recognize full equality of LGBT people, and they tend to call themselves Anglican, rather than Episcopalian. The church I attend in Oaland, CA practices a high liturgy (sometimes I wonder if I've wandered into a Catholic church until I see the women priests at the altar). Everyone takes communion, including little children. The parents decide if the child gets wine. No one is ever questioned about whether they've been confirmed.
wryter2000
(46,051 posts)I said the same thing below. Should have read the thread.
longship
(40,416 posts)One person in the world who has the highest integrity. Kudos to you, President Carter.
If only all religious people in this country would follow his lead.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Kudos, Mr. President!
DURHAM D
(32,610 posts)I don't see an action that supports the headline.
Last I checked he is still working from within the church.
rug
(82,333 posts)I don't know if that congregation is part of the Southern Baptist Convention.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)What would today be like if Reagan/ Bush hadn't stolen the election of 1980 from Carter?
I was married to the son of a Southern Baptist preacher and the whole family was insane.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)You aren't afraid of some truths like so many other cowards are.
Initech
(100,080 posts)And I'm glad I did and haven't looked back. I'm also glad Pres. Carter is doing the same thing, it's getting exponentially worse by the day and I'm glad people are seeing the ugly side in all this.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)There are plenty of good, progressive churches who would be honored to have him join them, and I hope he does.
onenote
(42,714 posts)Of course, in the eyes of some DUers, that makes Jimmy a "cultist" whose life is "controlled by mythology and superstition"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=453109
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)n/t
Liberalynn
(7,549 posts)Its one of the main reasons I am an ex Catholic!
BlueIris
(29,135 posts)mbuch64
(55 posts)I live in Americus (just 10 miles form Plains, GA) and I can't tell you how many people around here absolutely hate his guts. The teabaggers have many supporters here in this backwash part of our country. I've lived here on and off for forty years and I can honestly say that since the election on President Obama, I have never felt more uncomfortable in my on hometown. My Obama 2012 re-election sticker should be here soon and I can't wait to
put on the rear bumper of my civic hybrid and really tick some people off.
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)DaveJ
(5,023 posts)Such is the fate of those ahead of their time... usually ignored in the present when their actions are meaningless, and the future when their actions are forgotten.
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)Here is the schedule, right on their home page: http://www.mbcplains.org/
DaveJ
(5,023 posts)I guess it was more in pretest but he has not totally abandoned the church.
http://www.blogher.com/jimmy-carter-leaves-southern-baptist-church-protest-treatment-women
This week, Jimmy Carter left the Southern Baptist Church, where he has been a member for over 60 years. He and Roselyn distanced themselves from full participation a few years ago, but he remained a deacon and still taught Sunday School. He held on to his denominational affiliation through many conflicts - including the denomination's anti-gay positions
madokie
(51,076 posts)that he's starting to see religion and church for what it is
Rhiannon12866
(205,488 posts)Despite the personal cost.
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)This article is dated October 23, 2000
Jimmy Carter says he can
'no longer be associated' with the SBC
By Greg Warner
Associated Baptist Press
ATLANTA (ABP)--Former President Jimmy Carter, Southern Baptists' most famous layman, says he feels "excluded" by the Southern Baptist Convention and "can no longer be associated" with the nation's largest Protestant denomination.
...
But in a letter and press statement released Oct. 19 (2000), Carter lamented the new "creedal" direction taken by the SBC. He said the recent changes in the Baptist Faith & Message doctrinal statement are "profound and revolutionary" and reflect "an increasingly rigid SBC creed."
...
"But since that brief interlude of apparent harmony, I have been disappointed and feel excluded by the adoption of policies and an increasingly rigid SBC creed, including some provisions that violate the basic premises of my Christian faith. I have finally decided that, after 65 years, I can no longer be associated with the Southern Baptist Convention."
Source: Baptist Standard
As a non-believer, I have a tremendous respect for President Carter, who consistently shows more moral courage than almost any politician I can think of. But it appears as though he's done this before.
Horse with no Name
(33,956 posts)I do love him!
varelse
(4,062 posts)as usual
<3
rudycantfail
(300 posts)Well written piece by Ria Misra too.
marmar
(77,081 posts)...... kind of the opposite of Clinton.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)My thoughts is there is a short window to talk about Jesus and his love and it is not a place to talk about politics. President Carter has lived a Christian life for a very long time, always willing to give to others. Now the church is interested in everyone's bank account and speak harshly about others.
Skittles
(153,169 posts)PotatoChip
(3,186 posts)I think it's great how he quietly continued on w/public and humanitarian service long after his Presidency ended. Seriously, can anyone picture Bush I or II building homes for poor people in the US or lending their names to the cause of people in third world countries?
Now this. I hope others within his church (all churches actually) follow his lead. Jimmy Carter rocks!
denem
(11,045 posts)for US Health Care. Jimmy has an axe to grind. Neither is a saint:
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/09/16/jimmy-carter-blames-ted-kennedy-for-health-care-reform-delays/
Last edited Tue Mar 27, 2012, 01:32 PM - Edit history (1)
marshall gaines
(347 posts)I attended an SBC in the 80's. It was the most misogynistic, sexist, racist churches in america. I was dating a woman of a different race and they got really upset, leadership and followers, when we started attending. We were clueless until we tried to join this church, needless to say as a couple we couldn't join. But look at the record of Bob Jones University. They did not, maybe still don't allow interracial dating, a southern baptist university. Hand and glove with the institutions of slavery and segregation. Bravo Jimmy Carter!!
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)fuck raygun and poppy and stealing the election in 1980.
karynnj
(59,504 posts)This is the Carter doctrine and the real justification given for Gulf War I which was the root of the Iraq War. (Even in 2009, in the SFRC, when Carter testified on various energy efforts in his time, Lugar spoke of this - and Carter did not contradict. )
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)snot
(10,530 posts)Stratosgc
(37 posts)My wife and I left the Catholic Church after 60 years. We decided that when the organization is unjust and we have no possible way of changing it, we had to leave. By showing up every Sunday we were supporting a corrupt system.
Our parish community was warm and compassionate, even Christ like, but the all powerful leaders of the church are corrupt.
wryter2000
(46,051 posts)Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)My parents are still members of the Church. I know they are frustrated with the Church, but they love their Parish and my mother loves volunteering for St. Vincent DePaul at the store and food pantry and at almost 80 I don't think they will leave now.
NCarolinawoman
(2,825 posts)If you're looking for saints or honestly good people, look first to the people sitting in the congretaion, and not to the leaders of the church.
He also hated the term "Reverend", and thought no church leader should be so presumptuous to ever have that attached to his or her name. He preferred "Pastor".
wryter2000
(46,051 posts)Come on over to the Episcopalians. We have a woman in charge.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)He has an integrity sorely lacking in politics.
texshelters
(1,979 posts)Remember, Carter has been a life long Baptist and leaving his church can't be easy.
While I'm not religious, I go give Protestant churches one thing over Catholic churches, Protestants are encouraged to have a one on one relationship with God that doesn't involve a Catholic hierarchy (priest, Cardinal, etc), and thus, Carter doesn't need his church to commune with his God under his tradition, and he won't be living in sin if he doesn't attend the Church.
PTxS
MADem
(135,425 posts)The article is from July 2009.
Kolesar
(31,182 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Amazing how stuff can just fly all over hell on the internet!