They consider it an affront to them personally if they admit rape culture exists and must do all they can to deny it. All it does is allow it to continue to exist.

Redqueen, you are always fighting the good fight.

It matters.

More than one person has come back to hit "rec."

Good thing it was 6-0.

I agree. In fact, I would go further than Juror 6 and say the people who want to hide a thread like this are part of the problem. Telling women to stop talking about rape and rape culture gives rapists cover for what they do.

our newbies in this thread doing exactly that. you state it well. i have not been nearly so clear with him, as your statement. thank you

Take to HOF where such issues belong, he says. The alerter apparently things GD is for men only and ignores the fact that men too are raped. He couldn't trash the threat because the outrage is that we think we have a right to discuss issues that concern us and not him. That alert shows the insidious nature of sexism. People like that consider our lives so insignificant that we can't discuss a crime that affects twenty-five percent of us in public. That folks is rape culture. If the alerter had gotten the message "a long time ago," he wouldn't have alerted on this thread.

I hope the Admins take a look at who it was that alerted.

get the ban hammer skinner.

I really, REALLY, want to see the alerter's comments.

Regarding the OP, I cannot believe that FB post was allowed to stand. Unfuckingbelievable.

I think the 6-0 jury result speaks highly of the vast majority of users here in this regard.

Last edited Sun Mar 30, 2014, 09:01 AM - Edit history (1)

What the hell broke DU that this would be said here...

They won't stop hearing about it! To hell with their delicate minds.

Whoever alerted on this should be ashamed, yet they are not!

Thank you Squinch. I am banging my head too.

n'est-ce pas?

Oh yes, we are extraordinary strong women and that is a fact.

Yet the mind boggling statement from Todd Akin just blows your mind. Of all the stupid, uneducated, warped and twisted views of “legitimate rape” and our bodies can shut that whole thing down! We can shut down a pregnancy with our minds and our bodies. Who knew, thanks for letting us know Todd.

So sorry, that this post gave the person that alerted the vapors. Our voice can't be heard? You want us to shut the hell up!? Oh no, you got that wrong, we will be heard again and again. They need to get over themselves!

Thanks calimary, yup the alert wanted to make me puke too.

the alerter's mind would have had a way of shutting the whole thing down.

Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

about our problems." We've gone through the wormhole back to the 50's.

Makes it seem accusatory? Well, it is. Here's why: because there are so many out there fostering the RAPE CULTURE. Including assholes who alert on threads like this.

The mentality of "move along, nothing to see here" is strong!

I hope the alerter is reading all of this!

Which is why it’s so disappointing that the country’s largest anti-sexual-violence organization, RAINN, recently advised a White House task force that efforts to curb rape on college campuses should move away from the “unfortunate trend towards blaming ‘rape culture,’?” because “rape is caused not by cultural factors but by the conscious decisions, of a small percentage of the community, to commit a violent crime.”

RAINN President Scott Berkowitz told me that the memo to the White House Task Force to Protect Students From Sexual Assault wasn’t meant as a thorough critique of sexual violence in America. He agreed there are systemic issues: from untested rape kits to justice system treatment of survivors. But he stood by the passage about rape culture, arguing that the term “muddies” the conversation about how to help survivors and risks alienating allies. “Many people interpret it — men in particular — as accusatory,” he said. “We need to encourage their good instincts rather than pointing a finger.”

Or RAINN's statement?

I assume you mean RAINN.

I clarified my response. Sorry for the confusion!

That is what I believed you said, yet it was unclear.

Thanks for the edit.

Peace, sheshe~

...the "rape culture" mentality and the "vulture capitalist" mentality.

In both cases, a perpetrator exploits a situation to take advantage of a victim with no regard for the damage they do to the victim.

The perpetrator then blames the victim for the attack in the sense that the victim was "asking to be victimized" or the attack wouldn't have been successful.

In the case of the skilled factory worker whose job is outsourced to China after his employer's factory is bought by a vulture capitalist and the factory closed, the factory worker is blamed for engaging in the "wrong" kind of work or not having the right kind of skills. To add insult to injury, the now unemployed worker is told to go back to school and learn a new skill to become "employable" in the "new" economy.

Another example is the banking industry that swindled customers out of their homes, and when the economy started to collapse, the government came in and bailed out the banks which committed the fraud, rather than help the home owners who were swindled.

It's not only a culture of rape, but a culture of exploitation.

Of course, each issue is important in its own right, but it really help if some of the left wing resisters of feminist discussions of sexual violence could grasp the similarity in power dynamics, and that there is much to be gained by adapting activist strategies in each arena to the other.

I was thrilled to see in an interview with--was it Warren Buffett's son?--the discussion of using strategies from second wave feminism to combat capitalism.

I was soooo proud. I mean, our movement has become a model for others--a source of wisdom and strength in dealing with another interrelated blight on our planet. Basically the point was that as with male dominance, we don't just say, OK, today we're going to take down patriarchy.

No, the battles are fought in micro arenas every hour in every life and every situation in different ways. One answer, it was argued, to dealing with vulture capitalism isn't "Marxism" or another great theory (though perhaps democratic cooperatism may emerge as a more coherent alternative), but in all the daily ways we can resist it.

I wish I could find the citation.

Anyway, great connection AdHocSolver. Perhaps you/we should start on OP on this, if I can find that citation.

I also hope I'll be able to resist the temptation to post something like: 'Nobody here is a venture capitalist! Why are you posting this? Are you accusing someone here of being a venture capitalist? Why does this need to be posted here?!!'

and I feel awful that you went through your job being outsourced and your house being fraudulently foreclosed upon, but do you have to bring that into every conversation?!

RAPE

but we are not the ones who started it nor are we the ones who are keeping it rolling. The rapists and their apologists are. If they don't wanna hear women raise hell about this, or anything about white privilege, maybe they should get out and help us stop it!

Fortunate result. Glad they'll be unable to alert on any other posts about rape culture or any other subject for a day.

probably one of those who is always complaining about HOF in almost any thread.

Yeah, no, I'm not surprised.

... kind of proves the OP's point, doesn't it?

-- Mal

Grrrr.

I actually saw Mothers and daughters gleefully dancing to that song a last month. At a valentines event.

Mothers & daughters dancing to that shit.

But yes, we have to stop accepting these reinforcements of rape culture uncritically.

It is good to know the song was banned at several college campuses.

all the answer I will give.

and were voted to stay. Because - Lounge.

Since my phone won't download the entire OP...

Once a rapist is convicted, they should never get the chance to do it again in an open society.

Truth is, millions of rape kits of evidence are never processed, because the society we live in places no value on women. We might find the men who actually committed those rapes if we processed those kits, and good lord, some of them might be influential community members or people with money!

So, we give them a pass without even looking to see if a crime has been committed.

That is a rape culture, where rape is invisible and undiscussable. Yes, the one we live in.

what you are "allowed" and on and on and on

it is always damn nice to have some man come along and tell us women we should be appreciative we have what we do

and you are into evo psych, well helll. no surprise there.

We don't even process the rape kits. How's that for value?

We've had our first black President of the US, but no woman yet.

There are 81 women in the House of Representatives and 20 women in the Senate, or about 19%, even though women are 50%+ of the population.

Women in equivalent occupations make about 77% of the wages that men make in those same occupations, holding constant time on job, education, and other qualifications.

Women currently hold 4.4 percent of Fortune 500 CEO roles.

So no, we don't value women, and there were no happy darkies singing the praises of Ol' Massa before the Civil War, either, although it gave great comfort to the oppressors to think so. Still does.

A 400 000 back log on rape kits in the US and we can't draw any conclusions?

Democratically elected positions might not be supposed to be "gender representative"?

Yes, awfully naive, or misogynistic. Pick the one that suit you.

because a large part of the population have hindrances on their way to becoming candidates. Have you heard the old saw about how a woman must work twice as hard to seem half as competent as a man? It is true, and if that woman is a person of color, or LGBT, or disabled, that twice goes up exponentially.

Women who demand higher wages in negotiation is penalized for being so forward. You think that same mechanism isn't at work when it comes to leadership positions, including political candidacies? If your answer is no, you are naive. It has nothing to do with women wanting other things, it has to do with girls and women being taught that they shouldn't want leadership roles. Girls learn it in the playground, through the difference in how their taking charge and boys' taking charge is seen by the adults (hint: most often, little girls are "bossy" if they try to take charge. Boys are just doing what comes "naturally".)

When it comes to rape culture, you don't think that rape culture also has an impact on women's lives? Not taking that evening shift because you would have to lock up the store on your own and then walk to your car in the dark. Not socializing with the male bosses because you are not invited - they don't want to have to curtail their rape jokes. 1/6-1/3 women depending on what group you belong to having to overcome rape/assault trauma in addition to working your way up to the top, and always afraid that it might be revealed...because you know that there will be people who will think it is your own fault, or that it makes you fair game, or that it makes you too damaged for that leadership position if they knew.

Yes, I think your opinions are naive.

and rules that surround us, if you cannot understand the idea of a social construct, then you need to take any liberal arts course at a decent university - whether literature, psych, history, or philosophy, any of these could help.

"THAT" paranoid? Can you put that on a number scale for me, say 1-100? And then suggest the appropriate paranoia number? Thanks.

with literally millions of people of all genders in the work and government-place, you'd expect a rather random result, and yet, you have tiny numbers of women in both areas. Bizarrely, we task women with raising the children, and so many of these ideas come from maternal caregivers who are contributing to their own oppression, much like Uncle Toms of old.

Nothing random about it - the good old boys protect their own at all times and at all costs.

I don't believe in military conscription, nor war, nor a military. I don't believe in going around the world killing strangers for the benefit of the money machine, so no draft, no wars, and no military for me, please.

See what you did with the kindergarten teachers? I did. You must feel that male teachers are pedophiles and should not be around children of that age. Please don't say you didn't say that - you did, so now you will have to own it.

That blurt is just another confirmation of the anti-woman, pro-rape society we swim in. Ask a fish how he likes the rain. Won't know what you're talking about, because they're wet all the time. Same here.

that think this is Okay. Bleh!

on where we are on this subject. It is a problem and it is not going to go away by ignoring it. It's not a comfortable subject nor should it be. To me it is disgusting that in this day and age that it even has to be discussed but if there is ever to be a solution it must be kept in the public eye.

Glad you're here. And the solution is definitely NOT to just put it on ignore - because maybe "it happens to other people" or "she deserved it" (I mean, did you see what she was wearing????) Nope. It needs to be front 'n' center. And it needs to be in people's faces. And a huge oozing pox on every todd akin and other assorted creeps who have their heads up their asses about it, or female creeps like sarah palin who think it's totally reasonable to make women pay for rape kits - because as everyone knows, it's FAR more important to save a coupla bucks rather than be so doggone focused on that stupid ridiculous waste-of-time empathy business.

I remember to my amazement that todd akin still got 37% of the vote. One of those, "you've got to be kidding" moments. You sometimes wonder what planet some of these people live on.
Another problem you mentioned was the rape kits. It shocked me to find out how many were in storage and never been utilized. I don't know what the nationwide total would be but it must be staggering. That is just inexcusable. That is saying the crime against your person simply does not count. That just cannot continue. I would hope we are better than that as a country and can fix this.

That's "the thing" now, in republi-CON-world!

be to upset their oh-so-pure and delicate hearts and minds.

that women entice men into bad behavior?

A culture that believes good girls don't drink?

A culture that believes that if a girl drinks, she is "open season"?

A culture that believes if a woman dresses inappropriately she is asking for it?

A culture that believes that if a woman doesn't have appropriate male escort, she is a fallen woman?

Oh ... just in case you thought you were safe ...

A culture that even young men are groped if they are looking "too licentious"?

If you guessed the Middle East, you are absolutely right. A good looking youthful man isn't safe there, either.

And you think this isn't a problem?

Now, which do you apply to women in the US, and exactly how tight are your jeans, sir?

that, too.

Hell we even had a DUer state they thought as much, and that they were in doubt as to whether raping a severely inebreiated woman was even considered rape.

But this is an amazing and powerful post.
A big kick and honest rec!

Thank you for this post.

Change our justice system so that men are guilty until proven innocent? Get rid of the first amendment? Ban pornography? Make it illegal to put 3 women in bikinis on the cover of sports magazines?

Oh...other than the one where "why don't men just stop raping women?"

If only every crime can be solved so easily...

Why don't people just stop shooting each other with guns? Why don't people just stop robbing each other? Why don't our congressmen just stop taking kickbacks?

The answer is no.

and private areas as well. I think that any parents that abuse their children as well as husbands that have mistrtaed their wives should be required to submit to video surveillance in the home.

Chemical castration for repeat sex offenders

Substantially increase alcohol excise

and I do think education is important, particularly for young boys.

Empirically, I am not convinced that rape jokes by comedians (and the like) do anything to increase the prevalence of rape. It is a bit like arguing that jokes about murder increase the rate of murder. The earlier argument was that pornography caused rape. There really wasn't any empirical evidence for that either.

There is actually a very strong sense of opprobrium attached to rape. If faced with the question: "what would you rather be, an axe murderer or a rapist?" something like 96% of people will choose to be an axe murderer. Even fictional serial killers like Hannibal Lecter studiously refrain from rape, lest they lose their Byronic anti-heroic appeal. The cult of the serial killer is a very real thing (although there is no indication that it causes serial killing). No one sympathises with a serial rapist.

"Rape culture" is essentially an attempt to expand the breadth of that opprobrium beyond the criminal act itself, and to establish that we are all socially responsible for the prevalence of rape. Empirical issues aside, I am not sure that it is a smart move. The more behavior you include in the moral category of rape, the more you dilute the impact of the term itself.

Not an appropriate comparison. At all. Murder happens for various reasons, some unintentional. Funny that in your solutions at no point do we task society to educate men/boys about how to stop/prevent rape. Men to take responsibility for rape and violence against women.
It is obvious to me that you have not been raped.
Your statistics show how in denial men are about this issue as the majority of men in surveys have admitted to forced sex. As for serial rapists we somehow focus on the sensational abductions/invasions that usually are not just limited to rape. We somehow don't include the creeps at college who are known to have raped three women. Most rapists have raped more than once.
As for your statement about diluting the impact by addressing the culture that promotes stereotypes/myths about rape, you must be projecting. That's why we call it rape culture and not rape.

get away with it.

15%? describe an experience that was rape, as long as it was not called rape.

i agree. educate the boys. be a parent. set an example fathers. mothers, do not reinforce the misogyny.

Its clear that you've watched a lot of CSI. TV dramas aside, most murders are impulsive crimes without a great deal of twists and turns.

Most rapes and most murders are committed by predominantly young men. There is a strong correlation between drug use and both crimes, particularly the use of alcohol. There is a strong association also with particular types of mental illness, aggression and poor impulse control.

Marshall and Barbaree's study of rapists demonstrated that substantial numbers of rapists have acquired brain injuries and that critically, many such sex offenders have abnormalities in the vicinity of the temporal horn, a part of the brain that is believed to be critical for mediating both sexual and violent impulses.

I doubt that a lot of rapists are even going to hear about this twitter campaign, which is sort of the point. The campaign isn't meant to change the behavior of rapists. Its essentially another ribbon wearing masturbation session by pious white liberals who want to proclaim to the world just how pious and liberal they are.

I did mention education by the way. But I guess most of your spiel was prefabricated anyway.

Last edited Tue Apr 1, 2014, 12:41 AM - Edit history (1)

No actually I don't watch TV. Nice try to invalidate. Poor but what you seem to be working with is rather slim.
As for murders they run the spectrum. Maybe you don't understand that I refer to all murders, including unintentional, premeditated, serial, defense shootings, etc..
I am going to guess that "acquired brain injuries" includes bio-chemical as well as actual physical trauma. And the link between brain abnormalities and violence is nothing new.
Statistically speaking the average age of a rapist is 31. 75% of rapes are planned.
I would go on but I think the crux of your post is this-

"another ribbon wearing masturbation session by pious white liberals who want to proclaim to the world just how pious and liberal they are."
And somehow that's what really prompted you to write. Are you sure you don't want to add women or feminists to that rant?
And lastly-"The campaign isn't meant to change the behavior of rapists." Yeah-most are recidivists who are very hard to treat or didn't you know that? Not our responsibility.

I'm sorry but the reality is that our society does not view the world in black and white. Our justice system does not view the world in black and white. Our system takes into account other things like premeditation, motivation, the situation, etc...

Say you have a blanket law that says anyone convicted of rape automatically gets 30 years in prison. Now you have a guy who jumps out of the bushes with a knife and totally and brutally rapes this woman in a very violent manner. Most people would agree this man needs to be put away for a very long time. Throw him in prison for 30 years. "He's an animal," people will say.
But say you have another situation where a young man and a young woman have too much to drink and they start making out and she starts yelling no and he forces himself on her. And the next day he's sorry. Is that rape? Yes. Should the man go to jail. Yes. Should he go to jail for 30 years like the other guy? Many people (including judges and prosecutors) might not think so. Why? Because society and the system doesn't view that rape equally as bad as the other rape scenario.

And it's the same with every other crime. Murder has varying degrees despite the fact a person has been killed. It's a horrible fact someone has been killed and murdered. But as a society we recognize the difference between a cold-blooded act and a murder that is a "crime of passion" for example. There is a difference in how that murder occurred. Should both murders be punished? Absolutely. That guy that did the crime of passion will spend time in prison...but he'll get out eventually. The man that did the cold-blooded killing may end up executed. Society recognizes a difference.

Feminists will be fighting a losing battle if they have a problem with this. Because our system and our society are not organized and designed to treat crimes in absolute black and white terms with no gray areas. Now maybe we need to change certain things about the system. Maybe college football players are not being punished enough when they rape a woman. Im certainly not closed off to having discussions about that kind of thing. Maybe we need to change the sentencing guidelines a bit. But there is no cultural conspiracy by the system to support or allow for rape.

For the record, I more or less agree with your basic premise - hence why there are degrees of sexual assault, much like degrees of homicide, under the law. The real problem is that something like less than 5% of rapists ever do serious jail time.

I got the sense they were suggesting that rape culture is people having a narrow definition of rape and that other "forced sex" situations are not considered rape by those people.

Of course, rape absent physical force tends to be difficult to prove, but that doesn't mean victims should be knee-jerk disbelieved the way they frequently are.

Because really, that is where the proof is. And denial is a tough nut to crack.
The brain likes denial, keeps it "safe".

"Feminists will be fighting a losing battle if they have a problem with this."
A problem with what? Premeditated murder vs
manslaughter?

"Many people (including judges and prosecutors) might not think so. Why? Because society and the system doesn't view that rape equally as bad as the other rape scenario. " Yet both are devastating. Yeah we've always allowed rapists to blame alcohol, quit yer bitchin. And we've always done it that way. What a great excuse.
By the way 75% of rapes are premeditated. And they often plan on using alcohol.
This post says so much about you.

come back with an answer like "But what about Elizabeth Hasselback?????1??"

As you did before.