Oh, who cares, the Pope is fun!!!!!
Love,
Uganda

"The Family" and you have a recipe for disaster. They are just as theocratic as any other type of fundie.

I don't know if the fact the article is talking about Latin American Catholicism really means that Catholicism is good for Democrats. Latin Americans come from cultures of revolution and some Catholic priests in the past have encouraged that mindset, but whether that encouragement would continue in the US or whether it would help Democrats in the long run certainly is debatable.

of sects that call themselves Catholic and don't have connections with Rome.

the atrocities in Uganda would not be tolerated .

Francis prior to becoming CEO spent years demonizing LGBT people in very brutal terms, he did in fact tell his followers that opposing our rights is 'God's war which we must fight'.
Francis has not said a word against the Ugandan laws because those laws are expressions of his teachings.
He eats a scone, it is in the press. He could stop the pogrom with a wave of his hand. Instead he tacitly endorses.

and if it was, it would be bad news for progressives. Catholicism is shrinking at a rapid pace in the US, set off by new immigrants, but even they are abandoning it in droves by the second and third generation, and immigration is slowing.

Agreed. I don't think it is thriving. I'm an ex-Catholic and so are many of my friends. Even when I was a church-going Catholic I disagreed with the Church on choice and used birth control. I finally gave up on it and am glad I did.

that it is a hell of a lot better scene now than it was under Radzinger. If people are coming back to the Church recently, it is because they identify with this Pope. We can critize Francis for certain church dogma he has not yet changed, but it seems to me this man is genuinely more progressive-minded than any of our political leaders, including Obama. Remember, Obama was dragged kicking and screaming to support gay marriage. He wasn't at the forefront of that. He clung to the solution of civil unions way longer than he had any right to.

I am an atheist. I don't share any of the Catholics' supernatural dogma but I have admired certain elements of the Catholic Church (compared to many other sects) because of an honest tradition of trying to help the community without said help being conditioned on acceptance of their dogma. That's a lot better than can be said of groups like the Salvation Army.

But that last Pope was the worst -- supporting the most regressive dogma and shielding child abusers. This new Pope is the real deal, I believe. My point is that whether the numbers are going up or down, we are all better off having Catholics feeling very good about a man like Pope Francis rather than what they have had in recent decades. We can make real progress with this Pope.

Not sure how they came to that estimate, maybe by projecting Hispanic immigration to continue at the exact same rate, that. Hispanics will continue to have the same birth rare and predicting that people will retain Catholicism at the same rates? Hispanic birth rates are slowing, immigration rates are slowing, and the rate at which people are dropping religion is increasing. I'd like to know how they got that estimate.

It is not declining in the US. Bishops report came out in February. Worldwide up 11 million.

and on EDIT: Because I know how people love to argue facts about the Catholic Church even when they are not facts, see the compilation of the surveys below.


http://cara.georgetown.edu/caraservices/requestedchurchstats.html

the younger generation is abandoning it and other religions in droves.

Raw numbers of Catholics aren't the whole story. Changes being seen in age groups are what show the decline.

http://publicreligion.org/2014/02/america-the-diverse/

Immigration and high birth rates of immigrants that indoctrinate their children are what propped it up for so long in spite of younger generations abandoning it, and now those are both dropping as well.

The future shows decline for most every religion in the US. Unless there is significant increase in immigration or birth rates and continued childhood indoctrination at the same rate as the past, the decline won't be reversed for any reason I can see.

I give you the actuals and you give me a ppr survey... Wanna tell me how the pope is infallible next?

If you think the survey is wrong say why. If you think raw numbers are better say why. I think the survey matches other surveys and polls that show the younger generation is abandoning religion. Surveys and polls are accurate measures of the total population when done right, and I didn't see a reason to doubt this one. I think looking at raw numbers alone does nothing to explain whether a religion is thriving.

If a religion isn't growing among the younger generation, but is in fact declining, that would be the opposite of thriving to me.

I guess the first thing to point out to you is that your survey does not show a trend over time, only a difference in age groups. From that bit of information, you have ascertained that "Catholicism is shrinking at a rapid pace in the US, set off by new immigrants, but even they are abandoning it in droves by the second and third generation".

(1) The survey does measures the religious identification of age stratification. It DOES NOT measure it over time among groups. It also tries to break out things by race identity.

(2) Identification changes over age spans may be historically a trend. -- We don't know because this survey is merely a snapshot in time of a population.

The statistics I posted ARE a trend over time. The thing to takeaway is that out of 317 million people in America, 78 million identify as Catholic, or roughly 24% of all Americans. In 1965 there were 48 million Catholics in the United States and 198 million people, or roughly 24%.

Perhaps the most interesting thing to take away from the Catholic Surveys is while the numbers of priests decrease, look at how much the number of Deacons increases.

Catholicism is shrinking in the US while being set off by immigrants and high birth rates. That's why the percentage of Catholics is unchanged even as the biggest recent immigration influx in history composed largely of Catholics with high birth rates hasn't shifted the landscape. Natives are dropping it at a rapid pace. That's a demographic change, not a thriving religion.

12 percent of Catholics over 70 are Hispanic. 45 percent 18-29 are Hispanic.

http://religions.pewforum.org/reports

As for changes over time, there are surveys showing that today's young people are less religious than previous generations of young people:

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2014/03/07/millennials-in-adulthood/

And this poll shows the Catholic population shrinking among younger Hispanics, and projecting the population to shrink in the future.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/160691/catholic-hispanic-population-less-religious-shrinking.aspx

That is where my original statements came from.

Democrats? Are we hoping our Catholic allies are better than the Republicans Evangelical ground troops? Is our Sky-God better than they're Sky-God? Is this a football game, where, on November 5, 2014, our coach goes out and says, "Neener, neener neener, our Sky-God loves us more, so that's how we'll legislate!"

Good news for Democrats isn't in the gospels, it's on the ground. Show me organized Catholic precinct walkers in Texas, the Carolinas, Florida, and then I'll cheer. Show me this generation's Berrigan brothers, or Pope Frank issuing an encyclical telling poor Americans to vote for their pocketbook instead of their dogma. That's good news for Democrats, more butts in the pews mean nothing and may work against us.

P.S. I'm a former catholic, alter boy, Trust me, one Martin Sheen is worth more than any increase in Church revenues.

draw attention to the scourge of wealth concentration, reminding is that we have an obligation to fight poverty and encouraging us not to start wars over every issue??? You tell me. You do you think that could possible help Democrats?

It only helps the Democrats who believe in those things -- which really should be almost every Democrat.

There are still things with the Catholic Church open to plenty of fair criticism, but surely this change is a change in the direction of progress for society.

Ideologically, there's small distance between them and the conservative fundamentalists in the church one block over. A little more ritual. A little less Calvinistic literalism. But still, much of a muchness.

Republican places have Republican Catholics.

Democratic places have Democratic Catholics.

The Church sends the conservative priests to conservative places, liberal priests to liberal places.

I find it quite fascinating.

My wife's parents live in a liberal place, and we live in a liberal place. Social justice, peace posters, looking out for the homeless and undocumented, all of that.

My parents used to live in a Republican stronghold and attending Mass there was rarely pleasant so nobody with more liberal inclinations did. The church was not a welcoming place, it was more like a club for bitter older white people still upset by the reforms of Vatican II. I'm sure most of them loathe Obama and, though they dare not speak it, Pope Francis.

I'm a heretic, and a cheapskate too, it's a wonder they let me in the building. So I'm not going to accept any blame for the Church's failures, not any more than I accept blame for the failures of the U.S.A.. Both happen to be the communities I find myself in. It's difficult to find any human community that doesn't stink in some ways. Anyways, it seems to me I'm more effective working within a community than as an outsider.

I was shocked to find that there were significant numbers of conservative Catholics ... it just was not my experience.

As the Poster before me stated Catholics tend to mirror the regions and communities they live in. a Catholic in New York is probably going to be quite different that a Catholic in Mississippi.

I suspect few believers realize how malleable religion is.

i will give this to the "fundamentalists" (read: religiously insane) ... they are consistent regardless of where they are and who they are surrounded by.

Miss. is a Baptist stronghold, so Catholics are portrayed as idolaters and drunks. Catholics here experience what it's like to be a minority, so they tend to have a more liberal perspective. They do a lot of charity in communities that most people don't even realize, but the Catholics go about it quietly and don't try to get praise for it. I couldn't be a Catholic because I'm not a Christian, but I think pretty highly of how most Catholics live here in Miss.

I was raised catholic .... but at 52 have not been a Catholic for 30 years. I am not a big fan of the Catholic Church ... but I love Catholics. I credit Catholicism and my parents for my very liberal stance on almost all issues.

Your experience is very similar to mine (regarding the workings of actual Catholics in the community0 except that I grew up in an area that is majority Catholic.

http://www.city-data.com/county/religion/Macomb-County-MI.html

According to the link the area is ~ 70% Catholic .... I believe it was probably 80-90% Catholic when I was born 52 years ago.

It is weird ... the most staunch pro-choice, gay rights .... advocates I know are Catholic.

I don't dispute the experiences of other folk finding Catholics to be conservative nut jobs .... just as I would expect them to believe my experience.

The voting patterns of Catholics in the US tend to be about 1/2 and 1/2 Republican vs Democrat (usually 51% Dem to 49% repuke)

One of the guys who hangs out at one of the local gay bars is good friends with a Franciscan nun, and she comes out to the bar to have drinks with him sometimes. She is wonderful, and loves everybody. The hierarchy of the church could learn a lot from her.

Catholics here are usually union supporters, and union supporter are usually Democrats. Most Catholics I know are pretty strong Democrats.

In fact, I was at an event where I was seated with some Catholic sisters, and THEY were liberal Democrats. Completely blew away any nun stereotypes I've ever had.

buy it that they will burn in everlasting hell if they use birth control. Odds are at least one of the kids will be convinced to hang at the church. Not my thing, but if people feel they need a church in order to make their lives complete, or whatever, more power to them, as long as long as their church never attempts to control me, or my government, in any way.

It would be very wrong for any church to do something as horribly unjust and unreasonable as that.

read his books and took it as advice to forgo traditional and effective treatments of cancer and other serious ailments for faith healing, then this priest belongs in jail for practicing medicine without a license and fraud.

As far as the rest of the article, I find the fact that Catholic institutions run so many medical institutions to be abhorrent, if they can't keep their backwards ethics out of patient care, they shouldn't be allowed to practice or manage medicine.

In addition, the only reason why Catholicism is doing not as bad as other religions is because of immigration influx, once that slows down, at least from Catholic majority countries, then the numbers will continue to fall. Not to mention that most Catholics ignore their church in pretty much everything, being one of the more liberal groups politically and socially, while their church remains an obstacle to progress on many fronts.

On the whole, they tend to be more liberal than their Protestant counterparts.

I do have a problem with the church running hospitals. At some point, JAHCO is going to have to put its collective foot down and strip them of accreditation if they continue to refuse to offer life saving care to women.

All those old goats in the funny hats can see are dollar signs and breeding stock.

in charity, and their political lobbying. If the church removed itself from those areas, then things would be a lot better.

The Catholic Worker Movement
http://www.catholicworker.org/

Catholic Worker Movement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Worker_Movement

The Catholic Worker Movement is a collection of autonomous[1] communities of Catholics and their associates founded by Dorothy Day and Peter Maurin in 1933. Its aim is to "live in accordance with the justice and charity of Jesus Christ."[2] One of its guiding principles is hospitality towards those on the margin of society, based on the principles of communitarianism and personalism. To this end, the movement claims over 213 local Catholic Worker communities providing social services.[3] Each house has a different mission, going about the work of social justice in its own way, suited to its local region.

Catholic Worker houses are not official organs of the Catholic Church, and their activities, inspired by Day's example, may be more or less overtly religious in tone and inspiration depending on the particular institution. The movement campaigns for nonviolence and is active in opposing both war and the unequal global distribution of wealth. Dorothy Day also founded The Catholic Worker newspaper, still published by the two Catholic Worker houses in New York City and sold for a penny a copy.

Christian left
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_left

The term Christian left refers to a spectrum of left-wing Christian political and social movements that largely embrace viewpoints described as social justice that upholds a social gospel. Given the inherent diversity in international political thought, the term can have different meanings and applications in different countries.

Terminology[edit]

As with any division inside the left and right wings of the political spectrum, such a label is an approximation, including within it groups and persons holding many diverse viewpoints. The term left-wing might encompass a number of values, some of which may or may not be held by different Christian movements and individuals.
As the unofficial title of a loose association of believers, it does provide a clear distinction from the more commonly known "Christian right" or "religious right" and its key leaders and political views.

The most common religious viewpoint that might be described as "left-wing" is social justice, or care for impoverished and oppressed groups. Supporters of this might encourage universal health care, welfare provisions, subsidized education, foreign aid, and affirmative action for improving the conditions of the disadvantaged. Stemming from egalitarian values, adherents of the Christian left consider it part of their religious duty to take actions on behalf of the oppressed. As nearly all major religions contain some kind of requirement to help others, social justice has been cited by various religions as a movement that is in line with their faith.

The Christian Left holds that social justice, renunciation of power, humility, forgiveness, and private observation of prayer (as opposed to publicly mandated prayer), are mandated by the Gospel (Matthew 6:5-6). The Bible contains accounts of Jesus repeatedly advocating for the poor and outcast over the wealthy, powerful, and religious. The Christian Left maintains that such a stance is relevant and important. Adhering to the standard of "turning the other cheek", which they believe supersedes the Old Testament law of "an eye for an eye", the Christian Left often hearkens towards pacifism in opposition to policies advancing militarism.

While non-religious socialists sometimes find support for socialism in the Gospels (for example Mikhail Gorbachev citing Jesus as "the first socialist&quot ,[1] the Christian Left does not find that socialism alone as an adequate end or means. Christian faith is the core of their belief, which in turn demands social justice.


***not popular -- i realize -- on DU -- but the christian left and notably catholic social justice organization have been active for a long time.

the civil rights movement in the not so distant past and Moral Mondays movement today.

just sayin...

like the other Abrahamic religions. It's all there explicitly in their own religious texts and dogma. Progressives can work with them on some common issues, but at root, the Catholic belief system is fundamentally at odds with progressive ideals.

The paragraph stating the belief that Hispanics naturally identify with the Pope is based on Fr. Hoyo's writing and speech. While the writer honestly states that Catholicism loses in conversion exchanges, the 'offset' he sites in the South comes nowhere near those losses. All faiths are losing ground to evidence based belief systems. Especially faiths that have an issue with equality.