protection order she Demanded .

to do with this case .

And she even ordered the public humiliation of a sex offender.

Yet now she made an exception. For a Du Pont heir.

Ever heard of something called Occam's Razor?

And BTW, before focusing all your hate at this "misogynist" judge, do realize this has a lot to also do with the prosecution:

Attorney General Beau Biden's office had initially indicted Richards on two counts of second-degree rape of a child – Class B violent felonies that carry a mandatory 10-year prison term for each count.
....

But in June 2008, just days before a scheduled trial, prosecutor Renee Hrivnak offered Richards a plea to a single count of fourth-degree rape, which carries no mandatory time, and he accepted, admitting in court that he abused his child.

"It was more than reasonable, an enlightened plea offer," Richards attorney Eugene J. Maurer Jr. said.

Remember, remarks about dropping the soap and pound-you-in-the-arse prison are only acceptable if the putative victim is male. Try and keep that in mind next time.

would or have NEVER in this country, shared a cell . How was that ?

and accordingly an acceptable subject for rape-based humour (remarks to the effect that "I hope he gets gang raped in prison" are quite common and no one objects to them, along with innumerable boy bothering catholic priest jokes).

In this case, once you realised that this wasn't one of those instances, you had to hastily backtrack and claim that the cell mates jibe was all about him being a misogynist rather than a rapist. Right.

the person my misogynist accusation was leveled at . As far as that misanthropic cretin that Mame's children, he is a rapist at least and a shinning example of the " Culture of the Privileged " facilitated by asshole sycophants like the judge .

He should have gone to jail. A perfect example of how trust fund kiddies get it far better than the rest of us.

bottom feeder. fuckin bottom feeder.

If you mean tar, feather and drag through the public square, OK.

year. for raping our children. and now our babies.

men. that are actually charged. men convicted of raping child. be let off cause the judge feels sorry for the grown men. and again, a fuck you to the children.

is it time to be concerned yet?

Can you post some studies or data that show what you claimed?

I haven't heard that this was on the rise?

and child rapists in particular. Many have been posted in HOF and GD.

It would be interesting to see actual reporting data to show that this an increasing trend. I'll look for that too.

another unconscious 16 yr old and the man got a month.
a 14 yr old that mentally acted older (lolita) so her rape by a 40 something yr old got no time. even though she ended up killing herself. when a 40 something yr old mans penis is involved it seems his mentality is not beyond a 14 yr old girl.

2 in alabama. different areas, judges, people.

one a 14 yr old neighbor raped repeatedly as she grew up next to him

i do not remember the particulars of the second. there is a couple last 6 months.

We don't coddle rapists here in 'Murica!

We protect rape victims here in 'Murica!

That 3-year-old should have tried more to prevent her own rape!


I just know that kid is terrified knowing her MONSTER is running free because Man With Money.

The obvious speculation is that this guy used his wealth and connections to bribe, blackmail or coerce this judge. He could have gotten off light for ANY crime.

Rape culture would be if the judge had said the baby shouldn't have worn that tiny outfit, or should have known better than to be alone with her drunken dad. Ridiculous.

Funny I never hear anyone talk about our culture of assault or fraud or w/e, even though in many ways those terms would make just as much sense, especially if we are just going to say that every rape is cultural.




Edit to add: The real story here is deferring to wealth and privilege. Not only could this guy have gotten off for any crime, but if he had been a poor rapist he would be in jail right now, and somehow I doubt that would have been seen as evidence that sometimes rape culture is not in play.

No, all the "slaps on the wrist" aren't good, but 30 years ago this case wouldn't have had any publicity and the rapist wouldn't even have been charged.

but certainly with anything that was not a behind the bushes, stranger, kick the shit out of the victim, rape.

good point. thank you

Is this really a new phenomenon - or is the coverage (sunlight) of these situations the new phenomenon?

It strikes me that parts of society are starting to pay more attention - and the internet is a big part of opening the drapes and letting the light on. The outrage is growing - imo. It has long past been the time to be concerned...

Back in the era when I was raped, there were a few movies (Burning Bed - matrimonial rape and abuse; and The Accused - with Jodie Foster) that sparked some discussions. But no changes in norms, or attitudes.

I find news like this - horrifying. But I also find coverage like this - which is now quick to go viral - and the much deeper and more reflective conversations that are starting to be enduring - hopeful. Maybe we are entering an era where norms will change.

good counter view.

i generally dislike the dismissal of this issue, with a light is being shined on. but then, as another said above, might be education. then, that would say to me, this is the time to talk about it, talk often, and loudly.

interesting. thank you so much.

if there's something in it for them. They can be rapists, too.

This animal admitted to molesting his son as well.


Rape is not only perpetrated on females.

Yep, sure can. A 5'3" 100 lbs. woman that drank a bit and found herself fondled and penetrated by a 5'10 160 lbs. female soccer player found that out. You can get grabbed and /// then you are supposed to let it go because you drank a beer after you and your coworker and her wife went home, but coworker crashed out.

Her wife, however, wasn't finished with the night.

she was bought off.

She needs to be investigated thoroughly.

I'm hoping someone will cut the rapist's balls off.

and are perfectly capable of being misogynistic. We are exposed to the same messages men are, internalize them, and some never learn to critique the extent to which misogyny influences how they see themselves and other women.

Which is why it galls me when MRA types accuse feminists of "male bashing" when they dare to mention things like sexual assault or domestic violence - as if rape and abuse were simply a natural part of being male, or of being human.

in the article anyway. What's to prevent him from doing it again, if not only to his own kids?

Because there are a whole lot of examples of child rapists who do goto jail. Maybe you missed the point.

but somehow, if you're rich, rape is "no big deal."

If you're a football player: No big deal.

If she was wearing skimpy clothes or drunk when you raped her: No big deal....

Theft, manslaughter, negligence, etc. I think you are again missing the main point of what happened here

but I think I stand with Jimmy Carter, who DOES believe there is a rape culture in the US

But you guys are great tag-teamers! Too bad you can't organize for a better cause...

This man is a Du Pont heir. It is a terrible example to use to support "rape culture" or positive bias for "the blondes" or leniency for "fat people" or whatever.

There is nothing fun or funny about anyone getting out of jail for rape or other awful crimes. But I'm not going to overlook some pretty dramatic characteristics of the case just to promote a talking point

If you want to make a game out of this, all the power to you. But don't sit around and pretend you don't understand why people disagree with your "analysis" and think this OP is nothing but flamebait (which intentionally left out the man's status so it didn't interfere with your talking point).

You are hilarious.

I don't sit around pretending jack

We live in a culture that minimizes the impact of rape on society and on victims and on the attitudes of PEOPLE LIKE YOU.

I agree with Jimmy Carter, who says we have a problem with rape culture on our college campuses - said it JUST LAST WEEK.

Are you saying Jimmy Carter is flamebaiting America, too?

Jimmy Carter would likely be ashamed of you because he is a sane man.

Show me where she/he said rape culture does not exist. They simply said this case was most likely decided based on wealth. Here is a simple way to analyze this:

1. Would this person have gotten similar treatment for every other crime? If he committed any other crime, would he have gotten a harsh penalty? The odds are he would have gotten similar treatment for any other crime.

2. Would a poor, working class, middle class have received a similar sentence? Again, stats would most likely show this to not be the case.

What you posted is what most people call a "Faulty Cause."

How about it? Go ahead and respond to a fellow DUer who's Black, and tell him or her she made up racism, or that there is no enculturated racism in the US.

Okay? You wouldn't mind getting on that right away, would you?


Then report back to us how that went.

And why would I dispute racism? What the hell are you talking about?

I'd like to see that exercise and it's results.

Yes, people are racists. Overtly. A sizable portion of the population.


A sizable portion of the population is not pro-incest or pro-pedophilia or pro-child-rape.

as an Obama hater.

Yep, it's clear to see, I despise Obama, and this is a fine example of discourse (not that I think even BOG's sink this low)

Yes, people are sexists. Overtly. A sizable portion of the population.

Sexism is real.

Whats this have to do with the price of tea in China?

And yes, sexism is real.

and their heirs. That how your posts in this thread have been coming across.

My interpretation of what you're saying: You are trying to conflate economic superiority and are actually dismissing what this guy did because $$.

MY CONCLUSION: This is never acceptable.

It's not a terrible example. It's something that really happened.

Which, as far as I was aware, is not normally even associated with child rape (am I correct to assume that?).

It's not a terrible example. It's something that really happened.

In my opinion, the society's acceptance, promotion and forgiveness of incest and pedophilia is NOT responsible for this man's crime or for him getting off free, because society DOES NOT accept or promote or forgive child rape.

sweep under the rug, ignore, victim-shame.


This is an extreme case, where the guy's money/connections served to blur the usual line that strictly enforces taboos on child rape.

But move up the Victim Hierarchy from Extremely Taboo to Less Taboo ( i.e. Older Victim puberty and above--attractive), and you see rape excused in ever greater proportions, particularly if the rapist is a High Status Male such as Powerful and/or Wealthy and/or Alpha Male (Physically Elite). Maybe less so child rape, but even then, there are examples of victim blaming.

What a strange way to talk about "rape culture", in that they chose something that couldn't be more contentious.

It was better than I could have stated it. I'm stepping out of this thread altogether now.

I just wanted to say thank you!

Often, a line is crossed and they lose their supporters, ala Sandusky.

But there are websites - if knowledge is your goal - full of people who explain how the system victimizes many of them further when they report sexual abuse and rape. To pretend that it's some cake walk to report a sex crime is to be completely out of touch with reality.

I would call that the "less-than-sane" option when discussing an issue like rape.

You want to only see that one tree in the forest: the Money Tree. But there are victims all over the country who reported, and ended up like the now five-year-old in our OP. She gets no justice. A very wealthy man is set free to possibly traumatize her again. It happens in the poorest neighborhoods as well, so money most definitely is not the issue. It's the degree to which we minimize this crime that is the issue.

All of the people telling you their stories cannot be making them up. They are out there if you want the truth.

We need a wake up call, but you say no one is sleeping.


For those who want linkies:

Here's a good study on rape myths and their influence on jurors:

http://www.bpp.com/carbon-content-1.0-SNAPSHOT/resources/ECMDocument?contentName=Rape_myths_Dec_2012




Here's a lovely case:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/28/justice/montana-teacher-rape-sentence/

Prosecutors in Billings, Montana are looking for legal standing to fight a 30-day sentence handed down to a teacher who admitted to raping his 14-year-old student.

The girl later took her own life.

She got justice.

Finally, maybe. Except she's dead.:


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/19/judge-g-todd-baugh-blaming-rape-victim_n_4814627.html




And then there's the case of Clem; Alabama Man, convicted of raping fourteen-year-old. Justice serves him well as he's free:

An Alabama man who was punished with only probation for three rape convictions in a case involving an underage girl does not have to serve prison time, a state criminal appeals court ruled Friday.

In September, a local jury found Austin Smith Clem, 25, guilty of raping his teenage neighbor three times—twice when she was 14, and once when she was 18.

Clem was convicted on one count of first-degree rape and two counts of second-degree rape. In November, a judge sentenced Clem to a mere three years of probation, touching off a national outcry and prompting Limestone County District Attorney Brian Jones to make a series of legal moves to ensure that Clem would be incarcerated. Friday's order is a response to Jones' second request that the court find that Clem's sentence was illegally lenient.

Under the appeals court's Friday decision, Clem will serve the punishment he was handed by a county judge when he was resentenced December 23—five years of probation, and prison time of up to 35 years if he violates the terms of his probation
read more here:

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2014/02/alabama-man-convicted-raping-teenager-prison-time

Yep, really pertectin' those teenage girls from the rapists there.

Yeehaw! That is some sane-ness there. Clem must be like a Rockefeller or something.



And then there's the 120-day sentence in Clarkesville, TN, handed down to a teacher for raping a student. Here's one mom's reaction:

http://www.clarksvilleonline.com/2008/08/11/adult-teacher-rapes-student-lenient-120-day-jail-sentence-infuriates-parent/

Bryan Dale Farmer is a rapist as well as former Tennessee high school teacher and coach. This case, which happened at Northeast High School in Clarksville, was not his 1st conviction, and there have been allegations from at least three different schools and over a dozen girls. He is now a registered sex offender in Tennessee.

After his 120 day sentence, when he has another victim, who will be to blame? Since I have a [minor] daughter, I am especially appalled by this case. Teenagers may act grown up and look grown up, but in many ways they are not adults. Teenage girls are under a lot of pressure to look thin, attractive and sexy. An older man could take advantage of their infatuation and inexperience. Teenagers have had crushes on their teachers for years – that is no excuse for a teacher to rape a student.

I’d like to express my sympathy to the students and their parents, friends and family who have had to endure this injustice. If you’d like to blame the teens or their parents, you are welcome to your opinion. I do not feel blaming the victim is appropriate. However, if you have other information about how this sentence was rendered, or details about this case, the public, including the parents of Tennessee students, would be interested .

Yeppers, those teachers make a boatload. They can just wave their wallets ( or purses, as the case may be ) around and their big money talks.


I could go on and on and on here posting links. I say bombard the thread. If you got 'em, post 'em if you like.

Because our society does not condone, promote or forgive child molesters.

Very nice! You keep at it, now!

The fact is that it is *in the micro-systems* where action most immediately needs to be taken for there to be justice. It is *in the micro-systems* where we must take those first steps, which would bring society's ideals of justice and morality to bear on transgressions that are otherwise easily hidden or minimized. It is *in the micro-systems* where abusers are very often protected and victims are ignored or re-victimized. Society does not exist without micro-systems, and those micro-systems are where interpersonal decisions are often made that value power and, yes, male hegemony over the protection of victims.

And it is at the micro-level of interpersonal relationships and small scale power structures that rape culture has to be challenged. We have to challenge rape culture at the scale where a University administration doesn't want to destroy the future of some "promising" young man (or occasionally a young woman) just because he made the mistake of violating someone else's bodily integrity.

We have to challenge it at the scale where an employee is scared of having his career and reputation ruined if he moves forward with an allegation of child sexual abuse by his boss.

We have to challenge it at the scale where a bunch of kids at a party don't step in while a girl is being assaulted because she "deserves" it and her abusers are strong and popular.

We have to challenge it at the level where people are uncomfortable threatening the status quo of their immediate surroundings. Rape happens at the micro-level, and rape culture perpetuates it at the micro level.

You are equating official law with culture as a whole. An introductory social science class will make it clear that these are *not* the same. All cultures have their "official" norms and mores--more or less our ideals about what is "supposed" to happen--and then what actually happens behind closed doors.

Child sex abuse may be against the law. Nevertheless, roughly 20% of women and 5-10% of men report experiencing sexual abuse as children. Prosecution rates for child sex abuse have not been adequately calculated. However, based on the evidence I have looked at (which I have posted some of in another post downthread), the majority of perpetrators are never brought to justice. Certainly, there are individual factors at play, and the ability of the abuser to manipulate the child victim is a key aspect of the crime. However, to deny that cultural factors have anything to do with the prevalence and impunity with which these crimes are committed is ridiculous.

I can assure you 100% of the people I know are 100% against child abuse and would tear a victimizer apart. The fact that looney pieces of shit exist doesn't mean it is a rampant problem.

...and covers some of the prominent barriers to adequate reporting and prosecution.

You may have 100% stellar, confident friends, but the fact that 20% of women and 5-10% of men report experiencing some form of sexual abuse as children indicates that there are some social factors involved.

While I agree the overall issue (as presented in post 182) is an issue, most people differentiate cases of a 16 year old being raped and a 3 year old being raped.

Note: I am NOT saying one any less of a crime than another. I am just saying if you are looking for a panacea to address the issues of both crimes, you will be sorely disappointed. Show me the supporters/rape culture when it comes to adults raping 1, 2 & 3 year olds.

The data at the link includes a statistic that 28% of adults report being sexually victimized as teenagers. Since the two statistics are different I assume that the 20%/5-10% figure is dealing with a younger age group. I admit that my interpretation may be incorrect, and will review it for clarification later in the day.

Rape culture is not necessarily about "support" per se, it is more about inaction and fear. A very egregious example is the young man who actually saw Sandusky committing a rape; but it happens in lesser ways all the time.

I think a lot of the problem overlaps with some of the aspects of human nature that were revealed in the Milgram and Stanford Prison experiments...people absolve themselves of responsibility for suffering if there is some authority structure that makes abuse permissible. They may not "agree" with what goes on, but they allow themselves to believe that they are not the ones in control of the situation and are not responsible for its outcome.

It all goes back to who has power and authority. In a society that in many fundamental ways puts white, straight, able-bodied men in the position of authority, it is inevitable that women, minorities, the disabled, and yes, children, will be victimized. OF course there are differences in the specific routes by which children are victimized, as opposed to older teens or adults, but there is also considerable overlap.

While that is a meaningful stat that should alarm anyone, I would still argue there are differences within that range. I read a news article about an infant that died from rectal damage after the mother prostituted her out. While I think date rape of a 16 year old is terrible, most would agree these two scenarios are pretty different issues that need to be addressed in completely different manners.

To argue that since some are naive in their views of a 16 year old being drunk and date raped, they are equally naive of a 2 year old being anally raped is dishonest, at best.

All that said, you mention someone who witnessed Sandusky's crime and didn't report it, why is it rape culture that contributed to it? There are PLENTY of crimes that people witness across the entire spectrum that people don't report. So much so that there are entire groups of scholars who study this reaction in people to try and understand why.

that is where we allow victims to fall through the cracks, every fucking day.

And thanks in general for your other posts as well. I always stop and read when I see you in a thread.

Best wishes.

More to do with with money and status than anything. This is just my opinion though.

Wealth, status, and "good looks", does wonders for ya in this legal system. Look at the female teachers having sex with their students and getting a slap on the wrist.

Their victims are just as vulnerable.

I said "children" in my OP, not girls.

And I have shown links to many cases where looks or money were not the factor, because these were teachers, etc.

I will disagree this is solely about money. It is just the high-dollar side of the culture that tacitly approves of rape.

One for the rich and one for the not rich. First the privileged teen who was drunk driving and killed someone. His defense was he was too privileged and didn't understand not getting his way so - no jail time. Now this rich, white hog that "won't fair well in prison"? Who the hell does fair well in prison? That's why most people try to avoid going there.

Every time I think I've heard it all, something like this comes along. Puke.

the Rich Get Away With Anything culture.

Psychologically, there are considerable differences between those who molest children and those who rape adults. There are also considerable differences in how the public--actually, portions of the public--react to the two types of offense. Even rape culture apologists are generally repelled by child molesters, while that same group minimizes the significance, frequency, and/or moral repugnance of adult rape.

And incidentally, there is a large body of literature showing that adult rapists tend to show the same sort of age-crime rate as that of general violent criminals (and psychologically very much tend to resemble "ordinary" violent criminals), meaning (for one thing) that their rates of recidivism peak in the 20's & early 30's, and are really pretty low after about age 45. Child molester, on the other hand, tend not to resemble general violent criminals very much, tend to at least appear more prosocial in other aspects of their lives, and tend to remain at risk of recidivating with new sex offenses for a longer portion of their lives.

The diagnosis of Antisocial Personality Disorder is the most common one among rapists, while Pedophilia is most common among child molesters with prepubescent victims (i.e. those in stages of development below Tannner Stage 3).

I therefore would say that this DuPont legal outcome is the result of the Worship the Rich culture, not the Rape Culture. This conclusion does not mean that I dismiss the Rape Culture, which, as I indicated above, I would define as a cultural minimization of the significance, frequency, and/or moral repugnance of adult rape.

The judge was right about one thing: He would not fare well in prison. That fact, however, should not prevent his being sent there, and I would further bet that it would not be a consideration if he were poor.

rape is minimized all along the socio-economic ladder

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4755449

Although I have no doubt that part of the observable variance in the sentencing of rapists is attributable to the social class of the perpetrator.

My point is that rape and child molestation are psychologically and sociologically very different things, with the latter being held as repugnant by society at large, even though a portion of society minimizes the repugnance of adult rape.

I have even had a number of incarcerated rapists express to me their disgust with child molesters and with being put into the same category with them as "sex offenders."

Both crimes are minimized.

Both crimes involve power and control.

Both are often dismissed in the courts. Victims' needs are very often placed secondary to the needs of the rapist.

It needs to end everywhere.

That's the point of these posts, I suppose.

When this judge feels confident handing out this sentence, something in our culture is wrong.

Reporting a sex crime - whether for a minor or an adult - is one of the most difficult things to do. These sentences send a message, do they not? Whether the defendant is rich or poor. They send a message to all victims.

Sorry, I'm not familiar with any studies that would justify that assertion, at least if you're talking about forcible rape of kids with Tanner scores > 3 or maybe 4. Perhaps you could direct me to the relevant literature?

Yes, there are a few cases of people who have both molested prepubescent kids and committed forcible rapes against sexually developed victims, but AFAIK these cases are relatively rare and would not seem to justify the word "many." Are you thinking, perhaps, of the Dutch study reported by Hildebrand, DeRuiter & DeVogel (2004)? That was a very aberrant offender sample--low IQ, heavily populated by psychotics, mean educational level < 6th grade (our equivalent), all of them civilly committed rather than criminally prosecuted, and even in that group, there were very few "crossover" offenders.