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xchrom

(108,903 posts)
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 06:34 AM Apr 2014

Neil deGrasse Tyson Under Attack from Christians Who Want More Biblical Creationism on His Show

http://www.alternet.org/belief/neil-degrasse-tyson-under-attack-christians-who-want-more-biblical-creationism-his-show



Conservative Christians are really mad about the reboot of the legendary science series Cosmos, starring Neil deGrasse Tyson. The complaint? That an ancient myth about creation invented by Hebrews thousands of years ago is not being included in a show that is there to teach science. Christian conservatives have been taking to the airwaves complaining about the non-inclusion of ancient myths in a science program, with Danny Faulkner of Answers in Genesis whining, “Creationists aren’t even on the radar screen for them,” and Elizabeth Mitchell of the same organization decrying the show for having “blind faith in evolution.” (She’s just straight up lying here. Evolution is well-established by evidence, something Cosmos covers in its second episode.)

While it’s tempting to laugh off the idea that a creation myth should be injected into what is supposed to be a science program, maybe it’s not as zany as it initially seems. After all, anthropology is a science, and a creation myth segment could be a great way to introduce the way scientists study ancient cultures. But there’s no reason it has to be the one in the Bible, which everyone knows already. There’s been thousands of creation stories throughout time, so in the interest of fair-and-balanced, why not given one of these others a chance? Here are some potential creation stories, and the pros and cons for telling each one.

1. The ancient Greeks. Chaos, a goddess who also happens to be the entire universe, gave birth to Gaia, the Earth, and Uranus, the sky. Brother and sister married and gave birth to a bunch of Titans. One of those Titans, named Cronus, had a bad habit of eating his children, but Gaia was able to hide one of those babies, named Zeus, away from him. Zeus’ wife managed to get Cronus to barf up all his eaten children, and those children ended up, alongside Zeus, defeating their father in battle to become the Greek gods we all know and love. The invention of people is something of an afterthought in this legend, but a big deal is made out of how one gentle Titan, Prometheus, gave the people fire. This irritated Zeus, because he just really didn’t like people for some reason, and so he chained Prometheus to a mountain and made a bird steal his liver on the daily. He then punished people for fire-stealing by giving them a woman named Pandora who opened a box that released sin into the world.

Pros: The image of the sky copulating with the earth is pretty cool. The animations you could come up with for Cronus vomiting up his children would also be entertaining.

Cons: Just as with the story of Eve and the apple, this is a misogynist creation myth that blames all the misery and sin in the world on women.

2. Ancient Japanese creation myth. The gods, kicking around in the formlessness of space, decided to stir Earth into being so they had something to occupy their time. Two of them, a man and woman, do this little stirring dance-like routine, but the lady steps on the man’s lines, speaking before he does. This causes their babies to be rejects they have to throw out. So the couple redoes their little stirring routine and she acts more submissive this time around. Female submission, being magic, means that this time around, she is way better at producing usable children. Those children end up being a bunch of islands, because Japan, as you know, is a bunch of islands.

Pros: Many creation myths show the gods copulating the world into being, but few really spend much time on their pre-child dating life. This story has the appeal of a rom-com, complete with a dance scene.


Cons: Misogyny, just like in the Bible and the Greek creation myth. For some reason, men the world over were fond of making up creation stories that concluded with a lesson about how women are always screwing things up and therefore should not be allowed to have power.
43 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Neil deGrasse Tyson Under Attack from Christians Who Want More Biblical Creationism on His Show (Original Post) xchrom Apr 2014 OP
How about an episode that covers all the contributions from religion to science? Cirque du So-What Apr 2014 #1
In all fairness VWolf Apr 2014 #13
Plus, the first segment showed someone being burned at the stake wryter2000 Apr 2014 #14
As far as I'm concerned, VWolf Apr 2014 #20
I told this to my Trig instructor once... WaitWut Apr 2014 #25
Then, it's way above me wryter2000 Apr 2014 #36
Then in the 1960's, he was proved right. jmondine Apr 2014 #38
Yes, I think he covered that with a short history of the Inquisition. mountain grammy Apr 2014 #21
Such Fun. rgbecker Apr 2014 #2
I wish they would all hold their breath until he does that. LuvNewcastle Apr 2014 #3
OKAY - but only if we get more giant robot battles in the Bible (n/t) FreepFryer Apr 2014 #4
But whose creation story? cap Apr 2014 #5
Exactly! Nt newfie11 Apr 2014 #7
as the title says florida08 Apr 2014 #6
They have a shitload of shows every Sunday. hobbit709 Apr 2014 #8
They have shitloads of shows all week long... Wounded Bear Apr 2014 #29
Let 'em rot... RoccoR5955 Apr 2014 #9
the "Power of Myth" series (Moyers talking with Joseph Campbell) covered many creation myths eShirl Apr 2014 #10
I have been thinking too that if they want extra time for myths Just rerun the Campbell series!! lunasun Apr 2014 #15
They would bitch about that one, too... Wounded Bear Apr 2014 #30
ummm。 。 。no. next. Not dignifying these christo-bunko artists with any resemblance of Nanjing to Seoul Apr 2014 #11
Tell them if they want to watch TNNurse Apr 2014 #12
Cosmos et al is under no obligation to do anything for Christian Conservatives mulsh Apr 2014 #16
Don't like it? Then these assholes can change the channel. hatrack Apr 2014 #17
What is scary is ... yuiyoshida Apr 2014 #18
neil, tell them to get their own fucking show spanone Apr 2014 #19
+1 Auggie Apr 2014 #23
They're going to be awfully unhappy if NdT acquiesces. Heidi Apr 2014 #22
I'd settle for more actual 'science'. KittyWampus Apr 2014 #24
The show isn't designed for scientists, really... Wounded Bear Apr 2014 #31
Ditto exboyfil Apr 2014 #32
k/r marmar Apr 2014 #26
Religion has no business being on a show about science. Vashta Nerada Apr 2014 #27
Just as soon as they allow scientists to talk about evolution from the pulpit on sundays... truebrit71 Apr 2014 #28
OK, as long as every preacher includes science and evolution csziggy Apr 2014 #33
They can always do their own show JustAnotherGen Apr 2014 #34
Just another message from an alternate universe. madashelltoo Apr 2014 #35
Wait. These right wingers want "EQUAL TIME" with Cosmos, alp227 Apr 2014 #37
Tyson has already said that Creationism isn't "science" and just this past Sunday SomethingFishy Apr 2014 #39
Right. Creationism is "not on his radar screen..." caraher Apr 2014 #42
DirecTV has 16 religious channels. 16!!!! Initech Apr 2014 #40
When I see Pat Robertson explain evolution ... eom Bad Thoughts Apr 2014 #41
Why is creationism still so popular? Archae Apr 2014 #43

Cirque du So-What

(25,977 posts)
1. How about an episode that covers all the contributions from religion to science?
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 06:53 AM
Apr 2014

NDT would have to use that incredible space/time vessel of the imagination to explore such a tiny segment of micro-time.

On the other hand, comprehensive coverage of all the ways that religion has hindered science over the centuries would take several episodes.

VWolf

(3,944 posts)
13. In all fairness
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 08:49 AM
Apr 2014

there was a monk named Georg Cantor who, among many other contributions, gave us a way to measure the "size" of infinities (cardinality) and constructed the first fractal (the Cantor set). Of course, that's math, not science, and the fact he was a monk is pretty much inconsequential.

I like that NdGT mentions how some of the earlier scientists were religious, but they didn't let their religion cloud their scientific judgment (eg, the episode on comets). Kind of a slap in the face to today's fundies, dontcha think?

wryter2000

(46,081 posts)
14. Plus, the first segment showed someone being burned at the stake
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 09:00 AM
Apr 2014

for his scientific heresy, which later turned out to be true.

Math's science, no?

WaitWut

(71 posts)
25. I told this to my Trig instructor once...
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 09:39 AM
Apr 2014

Science without Math is Religion.

I still didn't pass that exam.

wryter2000

(46,081 posts)
36. Then, it's way above me
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 10:52 AM
Apr 2014

a mere psychologist.

Let's not forget Gregor Mendel, although he did fudge some of his data. Plus, many of the early naturalists, including Darwin, justified their study of nature as a way to understand the Creator. When J. B. S. Haldane was asked what he'd learned about God from studying nature, he answered that God had "an inordinate fondness for beetles."

cap

(7,170 posts)
5. But whose creation story?
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 07:42 AM
Apr 2014

Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, or Wiccan, etc. etc. how do we know the Christian story is valid compared to any one of these?

Part of the Catholic Church is teaching the new cosmology which incorporates scientific evolution as part of the word of God and strongly agrees with the science in cosmos. So do conservative Christians want to start arguing with Catholics ?

Wounded Bear

(58,706 posts)
29. They have shitloads of shows all week long...
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 09:55 AM
Apr 2014

They get plenty of air time. It's not rational peoples' fault they don't get 'popular' support.

eShirl

(18,503 posts)
10. the "Power of Myth" series (Moyers talking with Joseph Campbell) covered many creation myths
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 08:22 AM
Apr 2014

creation myths from many religions and cultures

&list=PLC1XJlEHlM9oVNOPQtVcv5QeCc9AqeCoT

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
15. I have been thinking too that if they want extra time for myths Just rerun the Campbell series!!
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 09:01 AM
Apr 2014

The interviews in the first 5 episodes were filmed at George Lucas's Skywalker Ranch in California, with the 6th interview conducted at the American Museum of Natural History in New York, during the final two summers of Campbell's life (the series was broadcast on television a year after his death). In these discussions, Campbell presents his ideas about comparative mythology and the ongoing role of myth in human society. These talks include excerpts from Campbell's seminal work The Hero with a Thousand Faces.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Myth

If this was broadcast as the result of their petition for equal time on creationism they 'd get an education at least

Wounded Bear

(58,706 posts)
30. They would bitch about that one, too...
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 09:57 AM
Apr 2014

Campbell is pretty good at pointing out the myriad other myths. The Christo-fascists on the hard right think only one is the 'true' story.

 

Nanjing to Seoul

(2,088 posts)
11. ummm。 。 。no. next. Not dignifying these christo-bunko artists with any resemblance of
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 08:22 AM
Apr 2014

class. screw them and take your medieval hocus pocus with you.

TNNurse

(6,929 posts)
12. Tell them if they want to watch
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 08:40 AM
Apr 2014

Something else they are welcome to do that. I do not like what they say on Fox News so I simply to not choose to view it. I also do not care much for professional sports so I rarely watch that.

Remind them that they are not in charge of the content of TV, movies, books and many other parts of our lives. Their egos have become massive. If they were only as concerned for the welfare of little children, the elderly, the mentally ill and the disadvantaged, they could do some really good work.

mulsh

(2,959 posts)
16. Cosmos et al is under no obligation to do anything for Christian Conservatives
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 09:02 AM
Apr 2014

I'm surprised at the posters who feel this sort of grandstanding, publicity stunt should be taken seriously. The best thing is to ignore these publicity hounds and their ludicrous demands. The few brief mentions of things like creation myths are more than enough recognition of the christo-taliban/carnival barker position for a show who's focus is on presenting scientific facts as we know them.

hatrack

(59,592 posts)
17. Don't like it? Then these assholes can change the channel.
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 09:04 AM
Apr 2014

Having spent decades playing radio and TV bumper cars swerving around Bott Radio Network and the Hour of Power and the 700 Club and all the other outlets these money-grubbers use as digital shears to fleece their flocks, I know personally that it can be done.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
24. I'd settle for more actual 'science'.
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 09:27 AM
Apr 2014

While Neil is my new tv boyfriend (sorry, Steve Colbert), his show is WAY over-produced.

Wounded Bear

(58,706 posts)
31. The show isn't designed for scientists, really...
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 10:06 AM
Apr 2014

It's more of a populist show, so the fact that the actual science is 'dumbed' down a little to make it more attractive to the masses is a good thing IMHO.

At a time when science and rationality itself is under attack, NdGT is a breath of fresh air. Frankly, I think it captures the tone of the original fairly well. Carl Sagan was, after all, a populist when it came to science, in that he wanted to attract more people to it.

exboyfil

(17,865 posts)
32. Ditto
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 10:17 AM
Apr 2014

I am watching the same episode of Sagan's Cosmos immediately after watching Tyson's. Sagan's episode is 15 minutes longer, and, while he does some speculation, Sagan does not spend so much time with it. Also the interactive special effects (such as the ship of the imagination) takes much less time in Sagan's version. Finally Sagan talks more about the actual science and technology showing models and doing a masterful job explaining it. Finally the continued homages to Sagan and his interaction with Tyson is a little creepy (I will give a pass with the first episode). Tyson should be telling viewers to just go watch the original show - it holds up very well. In 30 years we might be watching it when the next Cosmos is produced instead of Tyson's.

I think Tyson's audience must be middle school, while Sagan was high school. What I want to see from Tyson's show, what I expected to see were the amazing things that have been found and seen since Sagan's time. Shoemaker-Levy, Rovers, Human Genome, Tiktaalik, dinosaur/bird transitional fossils, Higgs, etc.

 

Vashta Nerada

(3,922 posts)
27. Religion has no business being on a show about science.
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 09:47 AM
Apr 2014

Maybe I should demand that more science should be implemented on those crappy Sunday morning church worship shows.

 

truebrit71

(20,805 posts)
28. Just as soon as they allow scientists to talk about evolution from the pulpit on sundays...
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 09:49 AM
Apr 2014

...but really, I don't mean that...those idiot, regressive fucktards should just STFU and GTFO...

csziggy

(34,137 posts)
33. OK, as long as every preacher includes science and evolution
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 10:18 AM
Apr 2014

Every Sunday in their sermons!

See how simple that would be?

JustAnotherGen

(31,881 posts)
34. They can always do their own show
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 10:19 AM
Apr 2014

To me - it's like Charlie Daniels going to Jay Z and demanding he start performing "The South's Gonna Do It Again" at all of his performances.

Not gonna happen.

Nope.

He's not gonna do it.

deGrasse needs to tell them to go hang and get bent.

madashelltoo

(1,699 posts)
35. Just another message from an alternate universe.
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 10:39 AM
Apr 2014

He's a damned scientist. The creation story has been told for over 2,000 years. If you haven't sold it by now . . . Hang it up.

alp227

(32,052 posts)
37. Wait. These right wingers want "EQUAL TIME" with Cosmos,
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 11:45 AM
Apr 2014

But are against:

the Fairness Doctrine that would keep right wing bias on talk radio in check

The ACA contraceptives provision that Hobby Lobby is so against

Duck Dynasty having a gay or atheist cast member in theory "for balance"

what entitled narcissists.

SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)
39. Tyson has already said that Creationism isn't "science" and just this past Sunday
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 03:27 PM
Apr 2014

the guy went to town on "Creationists". Look up Sunday's episode, Tyson explains how long it takes light to travel through the Universe and how that right there kills the legitimacy of any "creation science".

They can hem and haw all they want, their mythology will never be taught by Tyson as an alternative to science.

Initech

(100,102 posts)
40. DirecTV has 16 religious channels. 16!!!!
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 03:39 PM
Apr 2014

How many science channels do they have? One or two? I would say the fundamentalists have enough programming. Do they not watch it? Leave Cosmos alone!

Archae

(46,345 posts)
43. Why is creationism still so popular?
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 04:33 PM
Apr 2014

Three reasons.

1. Science is difficult.
And Evolution is one of the most difficult sciences to understand.

Creationism is easy.
"Gawd dun it!"

2. Fear.
Science says we could all be wiped out, and there isn't a damn thing would could do about it.
Look at the dinosaurs.

Religion says "Gawd made the whole world just for me!"

3. Money.
Ken Ham didn't have his "museum" built, and then let the public in for free.
He charges a hefty fee for the "privilege" of being preached to.

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