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Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 07:11 AM Apr 2014

An Open Letter Response to Charles Koch-

Dear Mr. Koch,

When I read your letter to the American people in the Wall Street Journal, I felt I had to respond. I am not doing this because I think you will actually read these words or that, in the end, this letter will make that much of a difference to you if you do. I had to point out the insult in your opinion piece. I had to do this because, in this age where money now equates to speech, I had to throw as much “free” speech into this conversation as I could.

You, your brother, and others like you represent a huge, ever widening divide in America. In a land whose origins rested on equality and stories of individuals pulling themselves up by their bootstraps to become successful, you represent an affront to the American dream.

In your opinion piece, you reference Thomas Jefferson as a historical perspective to support your views on limited government, in justification of your efforts for a “free America." I offer my counter. On the subject of wealth inequalities, Jefferson wrote;

“I am conscious that an equal division of property is impracticable. But the consequences of this enormous inequality producing so much misery to the bulk of mankind, legislators cannot invent too many devices for subdividing property, only taking care to let their subdivisions go hand in hand with the natural affections of the human mind. Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise. Whenever there is in any country, uncultivated lands and unemployed poor, it is clear that the laws of property have been so far extended as to violate natural right. The earth is given as a common stock for man to labor and live on.” Thomas Jefferson

Thomas Jefferson, was writing to James Madison about the gross inequalities of wealth he observed in pre-Revolution France. His observations there led him to realize that the massive accumulation of wealth and gross inequality of its distribution represented a danger to the American people.

You are worth roughly $40 billion, 26,666 times more than the average American. You and your brother were born into wealth from your father’s oil company and your grandfather’s railroad and newspaper businesses. Through the efforts of organizations like the CATO institute, the Heritage Fund, and Americans for Prosperity, you hold immense political power and influence. You even hold enough sway that you can illicit the exact type of political mandate on things like climate taxes that you rail against in your op-ed.

The reach of your political network extends to push for massive, ecologically damaging projects for your own benefit like the XL Keystone Pipeline, and derailing mass transit efforts. You are also connected to efforts to limit voting rights, and even corruption. Instead of going into depth on these subjects like I have in the past, I really want you to understand one thing.


In your piece you hail the tenets of, among other things, “equality before the law” but the truth is that there is no equality in America. Those who hold unfathomably massive wealth also hold far more influence on, and have access to, unequal levels of our political infrastructure.


You and your brother are so far removed from the actual American experience that you represent what is wrong with our country and where it is headed. A government run for the interests of the wealthy and the corporations in which they have interest. This Plutocracy that represents your vision of a future filled with “freedom” is so far from the American dream that it is a disgusting insult when you try to press your vision on the rest of us by twisting the words of a founding father.

The Koch name will go down in history as a warning against the oily, slimy influence that corporatists can have on our country. The more the American people become aware of your influence, and the influence of those who have gained from Citizens United and subsequent rulings, the more we will fight you and fight for our future. We will fight for future for all of the American people and not just the 1%.

http://www.thegreenprogressive.com/2014/04/an-open-letter-response-to-charles-koch.html

68 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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An Open Letter Response to Charles Koch- (Original Post) Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 OP
Awesome Jefferson quote. Laelth Apr 2014 #1
Pretty rich coming from a guy who kept hundreds of slaves, Nye Bevan Apr 2014 #4
OK... now Thomas Jefferson is a target Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #5
Truly amazing. Enthusiast Apr 2014 #47
He was nearly broke for most of his adult life. Laelth Apr 2014 #7
Broke mostly because of the enormous cost of Monticello. Nye Bevan Apr 2014 #11
Oh I see ..... Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #16
Yep, I admit it. I hate slavery and I hate hypocrisy. (nt) Nye Bevan Apr 2014 #18
Your perspective on jefferson may be sound JackInGreen Apr 2014 #19
good Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #22
Jefferson was blind to the horrors of slavery fasttense Apr 2014 #44
A most excellent response BrotherIvan Apr 2014 #45
As is your response. fasttense Apr 2014 #46
Not Much Of A History Buff, Eh ??? WillyT Apr 2014 #32
That is so unhelpful to this discussion. The concern here is the gross inequality of wealth by gtar100 Apr 2014 #43
You said the magic word for these types of posts....... socialist_n_TN Apr 2014 #66
That still doesn't make what he said wrong. Raksha Apr 2014 #61
Great response malaise Apr 2014 #2
Thanks my friend its only Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #3
Cruch the Kochroaches malaise Apr 2014 #12
I cannot say I like the last paragraph hfojvt Apr 2014 #62
Pitchforks, torches and The Wizard Apr 2014 #6
OUTSTANDING! May I add one thing? chuckstevens Apr 2014 #8
And that's exactly what's making them feel itchy. BanzaiBonnie Apr 2014 #15
Quite looking forward to the whirlwind JackInGreen Apr 2014 #17
I honestly think the Kochs & other 1%'ers desire a revolution & are ready for the fight hue Apr 2014 #29
Wow, he sees in our future a great loss of liberty and then does everything in his power to make it gtar100 Apr 2014 #37
DAMN RIGHT! eShirl Apr 2014 #9
He is incapable of understanding your point. TNNurse Apr 2014 #10
The "rope" Augiedog Apr 2014 #13
They can sleep easy... socialist_n_TN Apr 2014 #67
K&R.... daleanime Apr 2014 #14
Awesome analysis SmittynMo Apr 2014 #20
Thanks.... Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #24
The Way To Beat The Kochs...Make Their Egos Bleed Lots Of Money... KharmaTrain Apr 2014 #21
I found it confounding that Koch would cite Jefferson: olegramps Apr 2014 #23
Hell yeah! MynameisBlarney Apr 2014 #25
"The earth is given as a common stock for man to labor and live on.” crazylikafox Apr 2014 #26
I've always thought of it that way, I think we all do here, but never heard it articulated toby jo Apr 2014 #49
You have displeased King Koch Blue Owl Apr 2014 #27
From Progressive Greens..... not third way Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #28
Huge K & R !!! WillyT Apr 2014 #30
Why don't you see if the WSJ will publish your Skidmore Apr 2014 #31
why won't they print it?......LOL Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #36
Sorry to miss the ownership Skidmore Apr 2014 #38
1800 reads so far Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #40
Tea Party=created & funded by Kochs hue Apr 2014 #33
Americans will always do the right thing maindawg Apr 2014 #34
Great post. Even if he does not read it - others will. jwirr Apr 2014 #35
IIRC Adam Smith pretty much agreed about progressive taxation hootinholler Apr 2014 #39
Morning Joe Ghost of Tom Joad Apr 2014 #41
Andrew Kornblatt ProSense Apr 2014 #42
BRILLIANT! Rider3 Apr 2014 #48
great analysis, edit: replace illicit with elicit diane in sf Apr 2014 #50
Quibble: "elicit," not "illicit." Warpy Apr 2014 #51
I love it Pakid Apr 2014 #52
I always thought that as a RICH person got older, and closer to the end of life... Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #53
"...and Charles Koch is their Asshole King." Kath1 Apr 2014 #64
Thank you! I'm curtsying. lol nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #68
Fantastic letter !!!! It reads like the Declaration of Independence reworded to King George . geretogo Apr 2014 #54
Another quote from Thomas Jefferson progressivegrrrl Apr 2014 #55
Awesome! Kath1 Apr 2014 #63
K&R DaveJ Apr 2014 #56
Awesome! nt tweeternik Apr 2014 #57
K&R for Truth to Power. classof56 Apr 2014 #58
I'd like to hope this most cogent letter will reach the Koch Brothers' eyes and ears, 2banon Apr 2014 #59
K & R Raksha Apr 2014 #60
also, only the bottom got taxed. the system was set up the wealthy church & the aristocracy paid pansypoo53219 Apr 2014 #65

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
1. Awesome Jefferson quote.
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 07:23 AM
Apr 2014

Reposted here for my own records:

“I am conscious that an equal division of property is impracticable. But the consequences of this enormous inequality producing so much misery to the bulk of mankind, legislators cannot invent too many devices for subdividing property, only taking care to let their subdivisions go hand in hand with the natural affections of the human mind. Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise. Whenever there is in any country, uncultivated lands and unemployed poor, it is clear that the laws of property have been so far extended as to violate natural right. The earth is given as a common stock for man to labor and live on.” Thomas Jefferson


Progressive taxation was dreamed of long before we amended the Constitution to allow it. I suppose there's hope for us yet. We have to keep dreaming and advocating for sane policy.

-Laelth

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
4. Pretty rich coming from a guy who kept hundreds of slaves,
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 07:56 AM
Apr 2014

spent 40 years of his life building a huge-ass house for himself (with the aid of said slaves labor), raped at least one of his slaves, and only freed two out of his hundreds of slaves during his lifetime.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
7. He was nearly broke for most of his adult life.
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 08:02 AM
Apr 2014

If I were in his position (able to see the problem but unable to personally do much about it), I might run for office too and try to get our collective power (the government) to address these issues. That's what Jefferson did. Though the effectiveness of his policies may be debatable, it appears to me that his heart was in the right place.

btw ... of what value is it, really, to bash Jefferson or to dismiss everything he ever had to say as a result of supposed character flaws or hypocrisy? I am not suggesting that you do this (or that you have ever done this), but lots of people do. I don't get it.



-Laelth

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
11. Broke mostly because of the enormous cost of Monticello.
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 08:06 AM
Apr 2014

He was like that brother-in-law who just has to have a bigger house and spends every penny in pursuit of that. He squandered his liquid assets but taking into account the value of his hundreds of slaves his net worth was probably quite high.

JackInGreen

(2,975 posts)
19. Your perspective on jefferson may be sound
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 08:47 AM
Apr 2014

but how exactly does this add to the conversation here? I'm quite certain that yes, Jefferson may have been a hypocrite, but I'm not seeing how using the source that Koch cited to counter him is worth the derailment of OPs point. So what's the score here? What's your angle?

 

fasttense

(17,301 posts)
44. Jefferson was blind to the horrors of slavery
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 10:19 AM
Apr 2014

as was Jesus.

I use Jefferson as my example to never allow an established system to blind me to the horrors of that system.

Yet the Jefferson was able to see the horrors of royalty and feudalism. And Jesus was able to see the horrors of poverty.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
45. A most excellent response
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 01:38 PM
Apr 2014

Thank you. I am dismayed when thinkers such as Jefferson--whose ideas may enlighten us all--are now dismissed out of hand. These thinkers were human, with often very few other qualities to recommend them (not true in Jefferson's case). But that does not make their words or ideas any less true. If someone more socially responsible had come along and said the same thing or better, we would no longer be quoting Jefferson. But there it is. I am a person of color, and while I have not and will never defend his position on slavery, I will not dismiss his ideas.

gtar100

(4,192 posts)
43. That is so unhelpful to this discussion. The concern here is the gross inequality of wealth by
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 10:15 AM
Apr 2014

a couple of horders justifying their actions by twisting the words of one of our founding fathers. Jefferson's issue with slavery is a relevant topic for discussion but is beside the point here and a deflection from the real concern - the nasty, vicious greed of the Kochs who make Jefferson look like a saint in comparison. The issues are the Kochs and their deceptions, their manipulation of our politics, and misrepresenting the words of Jefferson to justify their greed.

socialist_n_TN

(11,481 posts)
66. You said the magic word for these types of posts.......
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 10:02 AM
Apr 2014

"deflection". It's an old tactic, to take a relatively minor point in a discussion and harp on it until the discussion on the main point itself has been derailed. I first saw it by RW posters on a "mixed" political board at least a decade ago and maybe further back than that.

Luckily most people now recognize the tactic. How to respond to the tactic is still an open question.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
62. I cannot say I like the last paragraph
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 10:31 PM
Apr 2014

"The Koch name will go down in history ..."

Well if that isn't a fine how-do-you-do to my ancestor Jeremiah Koch.

The Koch name belongs to alot of other people besides just UpChuck and Davey.

 

chuckstevens

(1,201 posts)
8. OUTSTANDING! May I add one thing?
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 08:02 AM
Apr 2014

Consider the quote of another famous American President:

"Sooner or later, unless there is a readjustment, there will come a riotous, wicked, murderous day of atonement."
Theodore Roosevelt

Mr. Koch, you and your brother, are pushing it and the results could get really ugly.

hue

(4,949 posts)
29. I honestly think the Kochs & other 1%'ers desire a revolution & are ready for the fight
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 09:26 AM
Apr 2014

They (1%) have their many impenetrable compounds, armed private security companies and ability to survive all accounted for:

http://www.prwatch.org/news/2013/12/12340/revealed-security-firm-guarding-proposed-northern-wisconsin-mine-misled

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/how-the-kochs-and-their-f_1_b_4057949.html


http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer?currentPage=all


In January, 2008, Charles Koch wrote in his company newsletter that America could be on the verge of “the greatest loss of liberty and prosperity since the 1930s.” That October, Americans for Prosperity held a conference of conservative operatives at a Marriott hotel outside Washington. Erick Erickson, the editor-in-chief of the conservative blog RedState.com, took the lectern, thanked David Koch, and vowed to “unite and fight . . . the armies of the left!” Soon after Obama assumed office, Americans for Prosperity launched “Porkulus” rallies against Obama’s stimulus-spending measures. Then the Mercatus Center released a report claiming that stimulus funds had been directed disproportionately toward Democratic districts; eventually, the author was forced to correct the report, but not before Rush Limbaugh, citing the paper, had labelled Obama’s program “a slush fund,” and Fox News and other conservative outlets had echoed the sentiment. (Phil Kerpen, the vice-president for policy at Americans for Prosperity, is a contributor to the Fox News Web site. Another officer at Americans for Prosperity, Walter Williams, often guest-hosts for Limbaugh.)

Americans for Prosperity also created an offshoot, Patients United Now, which organized what Phillips has estimated to be more than three hundred rallies against health-care reform. At one rally, an effigy of a Democratic congressman was hung; at another, protesters unfurled a banner depicting corpses from Dachau. The group also helped organize the “Kill the Bill” protests outside the Capitol, in March, where Democratic supporters of health-care reform alleged that they were spat on and cursed at. Phillips was a featured speaker.

gtar100

(4,192 posts)
37. Wow, he sees in our future a great loss of liberty and then does everything in his power to make it
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 09:59 AM
Apr 2014

happen. The Kochs really represent well what is wrong in our world today. Sadly, they woke up again today with more wealth than most of humanity and all they can conceive of is how to get more while others live in poverty simply for the want of an opportunity. The Kochs have a serious, serious psychological problem.

Augiedog

(2,548 posts)
13. The "rope"
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 08:20 AM
Apr 2014

In the news this morning it says they have started executing the corrupt bankers in Viet Nam. I'm sure this is of no consequence here in the land of equality and freedom, so the Koch's will sleep easy tonight.

KharmaTrain

(31,706 posts)
21. The Way To Beat The Kochs...Make Their Egos Bleed Lots Of Money...
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 08:52 AM
Apr 2014

...it's the best way to drive the uber rich out of trying to buy elections...make it so expensive to win and a gamble to their fragile egos. Harry Reid has struck a nerve to get a response out of this recluse and it exposed the corrupt and acidic autocrat and will make him and his brother a campaign issue. Yep, the McCutcheon and Citizens United rules have opened the spigots wide for the buying of elections, it also is fueling an ego money game among these spoiled kids who view the world as their own personal Risk board. They think they can use their wealth and they have a party of leeches all ready to suck up every dime they can get their hands on. While money can influence, it can also be corrosive and this is where I hope the rushpublicans are headed...too focused on all that Koch and Adelson and Wynn and other money and fighting among themselves and exposing to the electorate how the money is being used to destroy their lifestyles and political system.

We saw in 2012 how all the millions that were thrown around; especially by Adleson turned into an almost zero return. This was done through getting out the vote and exposing the rushpublicans for being on the wrong side of virtually every major issue facing voters. Exposing the Kochs and other fat cats can only put a face on what the alternatives are. While these asshats have deep pockets, we're seeing how they have very shallow egos. There's a point where the money can't satisfy the ego and they move on to other "toys"...

olegramps

(8,200 posts)
23. I found it confounding that Koch would cite Jefferson:
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 09:00 AM
Apr 2014

I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.

Thomas Jefferson


MynameisBlarney

(2,979 posts)
25. Hell yeah!
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 09:04 AM
Apr 2014

This is goin' on my facebooks. And I'll probably link it in a Raw Story article....Goog stuff there, absolutely brilliant!

 

toby jo

(1,269 posts)
49. I've always thought of it that way, I think we all do here, but never heard it articulated
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 04:36 PM
Apr 2014

so well. And damn, from 240 years back.

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
31. Why don't you see if the WSJ will publish your
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 09:34 AM
Apr 2014

letter? Or send it to another newspaper for publication. I think answers to Koch's drivel should be sent to every publication possible and written by as many people as possible. Hell, send yours to Kos orone of those blogs. Start it out on social media. I 'll help make it go viral.

Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
36. why won't they print it?......LOL
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 09:48 AM
Apr 2014

Its not mine but from a friend.

Maybe if you all send it to them
that might help the 'little guy'

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
38. Sorry to miss the ownership
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 10:01 AM
Apr 2014

point. I'm dealing with allergy eyes and a small screen this morning. Will be happy to pass it on.

 

maindawg

(1,151 posts)
34. Americans will always do the right thing
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 09:45 AM
Apr 2014

Once they have tried everything else. Now that Americans are waking up to the fact that billionaires are trying to take over our government, Americans will not stand for this. So long as the sleazy billionaires could operate in the dark, they got away with it. The Kochs dont like the spotlight. When Americans learn that Sheldon Adelson threw 100 million into Romney, Americans knew Romney was a criminal,by association. The Kochs are criminals. Born wealthy to criminal parents. They do not have a clue what it is to be an American. They are not Americans. They re mentally ill sociopaths. We know that about them. They have corrupted the entire republican party and the republicans are a dying breed. Dying from their own excess.
All the money in the world cant help you when you are exposed and Americans will not stand for it.

hootinholler

(26,449 posts)
39. IIRC Adam Smith pretty much agreed about progressive taxation
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 10:03 AM
Apr 2014

Those CATO types like to invoke Smith also, but not the inconvenient parts.

Ghost of Tom Joad

(1,355 posts)
41. Morning Joe
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 10:05 AM
Apr 2014

needs to see this letter. He keeps harping on how awful Harry Reid is for calling out the kochs and how wonderful the kochs are.

BTW everyone dies, the kochs cannot buy the stairway to heaven no matter how hard they try.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
42. Andrew Kornblatt
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 10:15 AM
Apr 2014

has excellent perspective.

Call us Obama-apologists, call us deluded, call us moderates, call us whatever you will but there are those of us Democrats who can see the rationality behind the actions of Obama in brokering his tax deal with the Republicans. In fact, part of what the Reactionary Left is doing could be seen as part of an overall plan to lay the ground work for some slick political maneuvering.

We really are in a pickle as a party, us Democrats. For the last 4 years we have gotten a lot done to aid our country. There are in fact some really amazing things on the list of at least 100 accomplishments that this administration has done including the signing of the Recovery Act and the establishment of a method to openly track the spending of that Act. I mean seriously, take a look at that list, it is rather incredible. While it is a fact that this administration has accomplished some truly amazing things, it is also true that there are some major short fallings when it comes to the promises and expectations that have not been met.

- more -

http://www.thegreenprogressive.com/2010/12/obama-and-tax-deal.html


Warpy

(111,275 posts)
51. Quibble: "elicit," not "illicit."
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 05:33 PM
Apr 2014

Illicit means illegal, which is what 99% of what those two are doing should be.

Elicit means to evoke, to draw something formerly latent into plain view.

OK, I'll stop now.

Sarah Ibarruri

(21,043 posts)
53. I always thought that as a RICH person got older, and closer to the end of life...
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 05:41 PM
Apr 2014

he or she would try his or her best to do good toward others, less of a crook, etc. I guess not. I guess maybe F. Scott Fitzgerald was right when he alluded to the rich being different. They are. When they are assholes, they are the biggest damned assholes on the planet, and Charles Koch is their Asshole King.

55. Another quote from Thomas Jefferson
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 06:09 PM
Apr 2014

"The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations."...Thomas Jefferson, 1816

Our job is to not run from Obamacare, and to expose the Republicans for their hypocrisy. And most importantly of all....make sure we bring make it to the polling booth in November with someone who just wanted to blow it off, or didn't have a ride

DaveJ

(5,023 posts)
56. K&R
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 07:01 PM
Apr 2014

I read his asinine article too and couldn't figure out what to write.

He seems totally removed form reality like the many trust fund kids I've met.

The other problem is that he would never actually read what anyone else has to say. Not that he's disinterested, I'd say probably more incapable. Even the reicht wing on wsj seemed to regard him as a simple mind who is fairly irrelevant in controlling the course of future events.

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
59. I'd like to hope this most cogent letter will reach the Koch Brothers' eyes and ears,
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 10:16 PM
Apr 2014

regardless of their willful denial.

K&R iching, thanks for posting..

pansypoo53219

(20,981 posts)
65. also, only the bottom got taxed. the system was set up the wealthy church & the aristocracy paid
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 04:06 AM
Apr 2014

nothing. he knew that, i am sure as well.

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