General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIt's not Russia that is destabilising Ukraine.
The profound and pervasive crisis in Ukraine is a matter of grave concern for Russia. We understand perfectly well the position of a country which became independent just over 20 years ago and still faces complex tasks in constructing a sovereign state. Among them is the search for a balance of interests among its various regions, the peoples of which have different historical and cultural roots, speak different languages and have different perspectives on their past and present, and their country's future place in the world.
Given these circumstances, the role of external forces should have been to help Ukrainians protect the foundations of civil peace and sustainable development, which are still fragile. Russia has done more than any other country to support the independent Ukrainian state, including for many years subsidising its economy through low energy prices. Last November, at the outset of the current crisis, we supported Kiev's wish for urgent consultations between Ukraine, Russia and the EU to discuss harmonising the integration process. Brussels flatly rejected it. This stand reflected the unproductive and dangerous line the EU and US have been taking for a long time. They have been trying to compel Ukraine to make a painful choice between east and west, further aggravating internal differences.
Ukraine's realities notwithstanding, massive support was provided to political movements promoting western influence, and it was done in direct breach of the Ukrainian constitution. This is what happened in 2004, when President Viktor Yushchenko won an unconstitutional third round of elections introduced under EU pressure. This time round, power in Kiev was seized undemocratically, through violent street protests conducted with the direct participation of ministers and other officials from the US and EU countries.
Assertions that Russia has undermined efforts to strengthen partnerships on the European continent do not correspond to the facts. On the contrary, our country has steadily promoted a system of equal and indivisible security in the Euro-Atlantic area. We proposed signing a treaty to that effect, and advocated the creation of a common economic and human space from the Atlantic to the Pacific which would also be open to post-Soviet countries.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/07/sergei-lavrov-russia-stabilise-ukraine-west
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)The link might confuse some folks on that point.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)So one can't fault the Guardian for sometimes posting crap that this particular sh*t peddlar is peddaling.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)Nobody in their right minds would believe a single word Lavrov says.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)That's a pretty broad brush statement.
There's another word for it too.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)in the address bar which isn't clear ?
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)so I wouldn't have thought there would be too much doubt.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,239 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)and that would defeat the purpose.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,239 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)at the time?
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)Bad Thoughts
(2,529 posts)The foremost way disorder is created is foreign invasion.
malaise
(269,157 posts)Truth will out
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)for years, both by charging them less and not pressing the issue when they didn't pay.
Now they have to pay up. No doubt the west will call it "economic terrorism" or something and expect Ukraine to get gas and oil for free.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)Russia wasnt all bad for Ukraine. A 45% reduction in the price of natural gas and what was supposed to be an additional $15 billion in aid was a necessary lifeline, the International Monetary Funds Christine Lagarde said on Wednesday.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2014/04/03/russia-helped-ukraine-but-now-ukraine-needs-more-imfs-lagarde-says/
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)much as you tried to make their actions on the anti gay laws seem more innocuous than they were.
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=559235
as you point out, sometimes a country like Russia needs to invade another like Ukraine for the latter's own good.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)people are going to start advocating that Ukraine belongs to Russia.
First it was just Crimea. Why not just skip the charade and advocate for the reunification of the Soviet Union?
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)reminding us to use RT.com, Russia's propaganda network, to "separate fact from fiction" by reading a state sponsored description of the new laws which made them sound mild or innocuous.
dipsydoodle (40,201 posts)
10. Exactly what Russia has done here.
http://rt.com/news/russia-gay-law-myths-951/
And that about the 3rd time that's been posted here on DU to separate fact from fiction.
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=559235
then you discouraged any activism against the Olympic games.
then your very interesting responses to the Pussy Riot descriptions of their prison treatment:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4224607
and now pretty much all your activity posting about Crimea...
what's up? your posts are not so useful to spreading the truth, but incredibly useful in spreading Russia's generally false talking points on these things.
you'll probably want us to ignore stuff from the past 12 months as old or something, but it's all relevant and it all is about your posts sending one message to all of us here reading, and that message consistently downplays the truth about Russian actions and replaces it with Russian messaging on those same issues.
what gives?
Agony
(2,605 posts)What were you thinking?
http://www.ned.org/where-we-work/eurasia/ukraine
3.3 million dollars worth of US Tax Payer Funded DEMOCRACY for 2012 alone!
including:
Center for International Private Enterprise
$359,945
To improve the ability of Ukrainian business associations and coalitions to advocate for their members' interests and to improve the institutional capacity, sustainability, and anti-corruption skills of Ukraine's regional business associations. During an important election year, CIPE will enhance associations' ability to effectively represent the concerns of the SME community through outreach to parliamentary candidates, technical assistance to associations to combat corruption, and intensive training to strengthen associations' capacity.
http://www.cipe.org
Mission and Background
The Center for International Private Enterprise (CIPE) strengthens democracy around the globe through private enterprise and market-oriented reform.
Objectives
Foster institutions necessary to establish and sustain market-oriented democracies.
Increase private sector participation in the democratic process.
Increase support for and understanding of the freedoms, rights, and responsibilities essential to market-oriented democracies among government officials, businesspeople, media and the public.
Improve governance through transparency and accountability in the public and private sectors.
Strengthen freedom of association and private, voluntary business organizations.
Promote an entrepreneurial culture and understanding of how markets work.
Expand access to information necessary for sound entrepreneurial and policy decisions.
FRACKING A! WE ROCK!
AcertainLiz
(863 posts)This is obvious from their current demands on the Ukrainian state.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Finally the truth gets told.
AcertainLiz
(863 posts)Invading Crimea was the non-violent thing to do! *wink*
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,191 posts)Lavrov's statements are Exhibit A to the patronizing attitude Russia has taken to Ukraine for years.
4Q2u2
(1,406 posts)Better than amassing troops on the Border. Ask Iraq, and the Brenner Provisional Government was beneficial to Iraq as well.
I am sure I could find some talking head that stated that as well, but I don't really need two doses of Bull-Crap today.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Both should stop.
But the West still hasn't annexed part of Ukraine and isn't building up military forces on Ukraine's border. That's all Russia.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)not a re-mash of someone else's interpretation.
Thanks for posting dipsydoodle. I may profoundly disagree with Lavrov but hearing that side straight without any media spin, is refreshing.