Sadly, that's accurate. People call him a bumbler and a failure, but according to the metrics set by those he represented, he was spectacularly successful: he broke the government, looted the Treasury, and made his rich friends even richer. He accomplished everything they sent him to do.

And as for effectiveness being defined by his critics, well...res ipsa loquitur.

is getting it from all sides.

You know, I'm changing the title to avoid silliness.

Rarely have so many words been so wounded by so few.

Thank God he was not successful.

Though I do think he only gave it a half hearted attempt.

The caliber and determination of his critics was seething with vitriolic spit each and every day of most of his second term.

what rounds out say the top 5 in the same era?

and Medicaid and Food Assistance programs demonstrates that while the New Deal made great progress, more was in fact needed and much of what was called for at that time has been done and much more still needs to be done.
Unless your argument is that we have now created a perfect society then the fact is we have not done enough, not gone far enough. Are there people hungry or homeless? Then in my book, we did not go far enough. You disagree?

"I think the eventual expansions of Social Security not to mention the creation of Medicare and Medicaid and Food Assistance programs demonstrates that while the New Deal made great progress, more was in fact needed and much of what was called for at that time has been done and much more still needs to be done.
Unless your argument is that we have now created a perfect society then the fact is we have not done enough, not gone far enough. Are there people hungry or homeless? Then in my book, we did not go far enough. You disagree?"

...that those programs fell short of being perfect when passed, I agree. Even FDR believed that.

go far enough. Those who said it was too much or sufficient were the two incorrect parties. Those who called for more were correct. Which is the opposite of what your OP seems to be saying. You seem to be saying 'we have made perfection, criticism is wrong'. You also seem to be saying 'being criticized proves one is correct' which is very surrealist.

"And so those who say 'it did not go far enough' included FDR himself because it did not go far enough. Those who said it was too much or sufficient were the two incorrect parties. Those who called for more were correct. Which is the opposite of what your OP seems to be saying. You seem to be saying 'we have made perfection, criticism is wrong'. You also seem to be saying 'being criticized proves one is correct' which is very surrealist."

...not. The OP does not say the "opposite." The OP simply acknowlegdes that change and progress are incremental. Those wanting more and stating that change doesn't go far enough are not the same as those who deny that anything is happening or that such change is making it worse. Those who want more accept the momentum, and want to exploit it, which is a good thing.

Stifling incremental progress isn't good (see the 2009 effort to pass a climate change bill). Would anyone want to stop a $10.10 minimum wage because s/he believes it should be $15 or more?

among constant opposition and that was w/o the social media we have now.

"It took approxiamtely 10 years to "smooth" out the wrinkles in SSI among constant opposition and that was w/o the social media we have now."

...is an ongoing endeavor. The right has been after Medicare for as long as the program has existed. When people give up on improving a program, the right steps in, which give us Medicare Advantage.

Decoding The High-Stakes Debate Over Medicare Advantage Cuts
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024790479

Nice post.

can you please tell me where it came from or who said it? It makes a lot of sense to me-

It's from a classic SF novel entitled Lord of Light.

I also recommend the Amber series of books.

FDR should have gotten the whole enchilada right there. He had more than one two year block to do it in, too.

Using FDR to slam Obama is just wrong. Good on you Prosense for doing this, as we know this theme is big with some.

And the effects are not always apparent in the beginning. As with Obamacare, it is a leap in the right direction. Not perfect, no but as seen in Vermont it will eventually lead to single payer. It won't happen by itself, we have to keep fighting hard for it to happen.

"And the effects are not always apparent in the beginning. As with Obamacare, it is a leap in the right direction. Not perfect, no but as seen in Vermont it will eventually lead to single payer. It won't happen by itself, we have to keep fighting hard for it to happen. "

...and from the peice posted here (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024757591), acknowledgment that Obamacare is helping to drive the momentum toward single payer.

when they merely picked up their bats for the first time. They didn't go far enough either - when they first stepped up to the plate.

But once they got started, THEY MADE IT TO HOME enough times to get into the freakin' HISTORY BOOKS!!!!!

alone would give certain people pause to reflect on the historical and present reality of social and political change and the American presidency.

Thank you for this excellent post. The message is clear. The accomplishments of the Obama administration, especially in fulfilling the almost century long quest to reform the US health care system, will certainly be seen by future generations as being of important historical significance.

"Thank you for this excellent post. The message is clear. The accomplishments of the Obama administration, especially in fulfilling the almost century long quest to reform the US health care system, will certainly be seen by future generations as being of important historical significance."

...this is why Republicans want to repeal it. This is from 2010, and given the 52 votes to repeal, it's spot on:

And the status quo.

You look at how some countries handled economic collapse and you see a lurch to the extremes - either socialism or fascism. FDR came in, and kept the U.S. from drifting to the far left. This was much to the chagrin to many leftists, like Huey Long, who felt the opportunity was there to turn the U.S. into a Socialist Republic. But Roosevelt's moderation helped save capitalism, fought the extremes and preserved the status quo.

Sure, he pushed this country to the left, but compared to a great deal of other nations who've gone left since, or around that time, even he was fairly moderate.

FDR was, in a time of ultimate crisis, the status quo.

But that was a good thing. For as much as we could have gone further to the left, it was entirely possible for an extreme lurch toward fascism, like Italy under Mussolini in the mid-1920s.

Forget trying to reason with this element:

I presented the "liberals didn't think FDR went far enough" argument -- a very well known and documented argument -- and was shouted down by the same imbeciles that now race to kick and rec every thread where he is lionized, at President Obama's expense of course.

You know, Prosense, when you keep apologizing for him, you create the impression that you have something to apologize for. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with our president. He has done everything he said he would do and then some. He has endured insults and abuse from the right that would made Jesus weep and he has done it with dignity. All the Democrats I know like him just fine---and everyone I know is left of left. You don't have to compare him to FDR or anyone else. He can be Obama. That is just fine.

"You know, Prosense, when you keep apologizing for him, you create the impression that you have something to apologize for. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with our president. He has done everything he said he would do and then some. He has endured insults and abuse from the right that would made Jesus weep and he has done it with dignity. All the Democrats I know like him just fine---and everyone I know is left of left. You don't have to compare him to FDR or anyone else. He can be Obama. That is just fine."

....this is an acknowledgment of reality. "Everything"? The reality of Republican obstruction says otherwise.

Oh you mean how the New Deal is being rolled back piece by piece? That is incremental but in a rightward direction.

Good luck with that given the currently tepid democratic policy offerings.

But I am still voting for them. Any Buckeye who does not is helping Kasich destroy people's lives.

Tepid or not, they beat the shit out of the alternative.