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Capt. Obvious

(9,002 posts)
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 02:27 PM Apr 2014

Jimmy Carter To Obama: Don't Approve Keystone XL Pipeline

Former President Jimmy Carter on Tuesday came out against the Keystone XL pipeline in a letter to President Obama and Secretary of State John Kerry, urging them to oppose construction.

"You stand on the brink of making a choice that will define your legacy on one of the greatest challenges humanity has ever faced -- climate change," reads the letter from Carter and nine other Nobel Peace Prize recipients. "As you deliberate the Keystone XL tar sands pipeline, you are poised to make a decision that will signal either a dangerous commitment to the status quo, or bold leadership that will inspire millions counting on you to do the right thing for our shared climate."

Carter is the first former president to announce his opposition to the controversial pipeline. Both George W. Bush and Bill Clinton have said they would support construction, according to the Washington Post.

The Keystone pipeline would export crude oil from tar sands in Canada to American refineries.

TPM


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Jimmy Carter To Obama: Don't Approve Keystone XL Pipeline (Original Post) Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 OP
he's the best G_j Apr 2014 #1
Fantabulous .... Thanks again to President Jimmy Carter ... MindMover Apr 2014 #2
I agree with president Carter on this, but it is ironic how when he was president he pushed nuclear lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #3
Solar panels on the White House roof. Energy conservation Jackpine Radical Apr 2014 #7
Absolutely true, but he also was very pro-nuclear power for energy, and I would strongly believe his lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #9
Lots of serious environmentalists also see nuclear as a necessary short-term solution. Jackpine Radical Apr 2014 #10
That may be, but I agree with you that one also. It is like the concept of clean coal. It doesn't lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #13
He was a nuclear engineer. Knew more than most about it. n/t jtuck004 Apr 2014 #15
The navy nuclear program is way different than the commercial plants. rhett o rick Apr 2014 #38
Yes. I just like to see in print that he's a smart guy. Navy Nuclear <G>. I think people jtuck004 Apr 2014 #39
I absolutely agree with that. Adm Rickover was very particular with those he picked rhett o rick Apr 2014 #40
He also pushed green measures, though. merrily Apr 2014 #23
God Bless jimmy otherone Apr 2014 #4
Carter is a Buttinsky. Jackpine Radical Apr 2014 #5
If you are implying that my post says that, you are incorrect. As far as your comment that "Reagan lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #11
In 2008, Obama and Hillary both put Reagan on their respective list of merrily Apr 2014 #26
Really Nixon. I didn't realize that. I know Nixon started the EPA, and thought tried to implement lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #34
Actual repeal of Glass Steagall was under Clinton. My post said Carter did not agree with it. merrily Apr 2014 #36
You are not flip, just honest, and I was going from memory, big mistake, thanks lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #42
Killing someone is a big mistake, not something in a post. No apologies necessary. merrily Apr 2014 #43
Appreciate, knowledge is important lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #46
I was responding to the OP, not you here. Jackpine Radical Apr 2014 #27
understood, sorry... thanks for the clarification lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #35
"with all the excesses of the 60s and the 70s, and government had grown and grown" Yeah, all that jtuck004 Apr 2014 #18
the other ex presidents aren't decent, honorable G_j Apr 2014 #20
Blechkk pangaia Apr 2014 #25
It's an awful fact. n/t Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #41
It has been refreshing and inspirational to hear a president say what he thinks bluntly and quinnox Apr 2014 #6
I agree lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #12
K&R n/t Joe Shlabotnik Apr 2014 #8
Pfft. Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy. progressoid Apr 2014 #14
Hmm. Rod Beauvex Apr 2014 #16
He was a wonderful peacemaker as President; and an inspirational ex-President. Zen Democrat Apr 2014 #17
It took years, but he did get the hostages back without a war. merrily Apr 2014 #44
K&R cprise Apr 2014 #19
Those pesky environmentalist and their need to save the planet! Rex Apr 2014 #21
K&R LW1977 Apr 2014 #22
K & R !!! WillyT Apr 2014 #24
If Obama approves the pipeline and it RUPTURES RoverSuswade Apr 2014 #28
THAT would be his Katrina. n/t woodsprite Apr 2014 #29
Don't think for a minute blue14u Apr 2014 #37
Thing is, no matter what happens, Republicans will tag him with one perjorative or another. merrily Apr 2014 #45
Thank you Jimmy marions ghost Apr 2014 #30
Jimmy had vision.... BlueJac Apr 2014 #31
we could've made a huge leap into the 20th century by 2000! MisterP Apr 2014 #48
Wisdom over corporate profits Blue Owl Apr 2014 #32
Mr. Carter, come on! Enthusiast Apr 2014 #33
K&R 99Forever Apr 2014 #47
Recommend. Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #49
What makes James Earl Carter unique among living ex-presidents? Divernan Apr 2014 #50

MindMover

(5,016 posts)
2. Fantabulous .... Thanks again to President Jimmy Carter ...
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 02:31 PM
Apr 2014

You are definitely a man before his time ... Love you ...

lostincalifornia

(3,639 posts)
3. I agree with president Carter on this, but it is ironic how when he was president he pushed nuclear
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 02:32 PM
Apr 2014

Power, and actually led the push for deregulation of the airline industry

Funny how time and experience sometimes changes ones perspective

lostincalifornia

(3,639 posts)
9. Absolutely true, but he also was very pro-nuclear power for energy, and I would strongly believe his
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 02:41 PM
Apr 2014

views have changed since then

I remember him at TMI

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
10. Lots of serious environmentalists also see nuclear as a necessary short-term solution.
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 02:44 PM
Apr 2014

I'm not among them, but still…

lostincalifornia

(3,639 posts)
13. That may be, but I agree with you that one also. It is like the concept of clean coal. It doesn't
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 02:59 PM
Apr 2014

exist. I also agree that Carter was the first President to also push other alternative forms of energy as solar, wind, energy efficient cars, etc. One of the most outrageous things that the pseudo god ray gun did was remove the solar panels that President Carter had put on the white house.

Reminds me of the same mentality as george bush junior going to Detroit and making fun of hybrid cars.

I think Obama's constant reference to reagan are stupid. I suspect he feels that by doing that he would be able to unite right wingers, but as most of us realized after the first several months of his presidency, that wasn't going to happen.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
38. The navy nuclear program is way different than the commercial plants.
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 06:03 PM
Apr 2014

Rickover knew that his nuclear navy had to be fool proof or he wouldnt get it. His program has lots of safeguards but is expensive. Commercial plants have a profit motive which can lead to the disastrous plant design that was used in Fukushima.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
39. Yes. I just like to see in print that he's a smart guy. Navy Nuclear <G>. I think people
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 06:05 PM
Apr 2014

sometime forget that

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
40. I absolutely agree with that. Adm Rickover was very particular with those he picked
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 06:08 PM
Apr 2014

personally for being in charge of his nuclear submarines.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
23. He also pushed green measures, though.
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 04:12 PM
Apr 2014

I don't know that his position has changed. He thought it was extremely dangerous for us to be so very dependent on Middle Eastern oil; and we should do whatever it took to get off it. I think his position on nuclear power has to be seen in that context, as does his urging Americans to lower their thermostats and his putting solar panels on the roof of the White House.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
5. Carter is a Buttinsky.
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 02:37 PM
Apr 2014

Obama never asked him for advice on this or anything else.

Carter is the only living ex-President Obama has never consulted. This is a fact that bothers me quite a lot whenever I think of it.

That and the fact that Reagan was one of Obama's role models.

"I don’t want to present myself as some sort of singular figure. I think part of what’s different are the times. I do think that, for example, the 1980 election was different. I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that, you know, Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not.

"He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it. I think they felt like, you know, with all the excesses of the 60s and the 70s, and government had grown and grown, but there wasn't much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating. I think people just tapped into -- he tapped into what people were already feeling, which was, we want clarity, we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing."

lostincalifornia

(3,639 posts)
11. If you are implying that my post says that, you are incorrect. As far as your comment that "Reagan
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 02:52 PM
Apr 2014

was Obama's role model", that is not exactly correct either.

Raygun is one of the most over-rated presidents, whose many actions were disciple, and he was never held accountable for those actions, by the American people. Especially, in regard to the Iran Contra outrage, the start of the deregulation of the financial system, and destruction of the unions. The irony is that it was labor that actually elected reagan, and have been paying the consequences for that ever since


merrily

(45,251 posts)
26. In 2008, Obama and Hillary both put Reagan on their respective list of
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 04:19 PM
Apr 2014

Ten Best Presidents in US History, along with Washington, Lincoln, and the two Roosevelts. Everyone of the 10 best US Presidents ever would be a role model for a President.

As you probably know, Obama also said that, in the 80's, his own political views (Obama's) would have been classed as "moderate Republican." Who was the quintessential Republican of the 1980s?

Deregulation started under Nixon and was continued by every President after him, Democratic and Republican. For his part, Carter and a (Democratic Congress) made the bankruptcy act much more big business friendly, and Carter bragged on how much deregulating he had done, though he disagreed with Clinton's. (Carter said "I will not call his name," but, from the context, repeal of Glass Steagall was the event being referred to.)

lostincalifornia

(3,639 posts)
34. Really Nixon. I didn't realize that. I know Nixon started the EPA, and thought tried to implement
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 05:12 PM
Apr 2014

an energy policy. Regardless, most of the real deregulation, in my view started with reagan. The S&L crisis was a direct result of that garbage, and then the air traffic controller strike was the first blow against labor.

I thought the actual repeal of Glass Steagall was under Bill Clinton. Regardless, I suspect Jimmy Carter would not hold a lot of the same positions he did when he was President as he does not. For that matter Barry Goldwater after he retired become much more moderate, and on some issues, progressive, than when he was running for president.

Yes, I am aware of that statement from Obama regarding his own classification, but I suspect that was more to gain acceptance by moderates. Same thing with Obama and Hillary putting Reagan on their list of best Presidents. Absolutely ridiculous, and feeds in to the myth of reagan, who was not even a mediocre president in my view

merrily

(45,251 posts)
36. Actual repeal of Glass Steagall was under Clinton. My post said Carter did not agree with it.
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 05:38 PM
Apr 2014

As I said, Carter would not name Clinton or Gramm, Leach, Bliley, but it was clear from the question the interviewer had asked Carter that Carter was referring to repeal of Glass Steagall under Cllinton.



Really Nixon. I didn't realize that.


Yes, de-regulation began with Nixon, then Ford, then Carter, then Reagan, then Clinton, then Obama. Not exclusively banking deregulation, though. From the standpoint of a consumer/taxpayer/average American, deregulation to benefit big business and lying right wing broadcasters at the expense of the rest of us is the issue. Whether you are a banker, or a broker, or a company selling food full of carcinogens, rodent feces and other things I should not being paying for, let alone ingesting.

So, from my perspective, deregulating of the airlines, FCC, the antitrust wing of the D of J, etc. and changing the Bankruptcy Act is all mostly crap. And, even without deregulation, the agencies that were birthed to protect the general public devolved de facto to little more than enablers of big business. Of course, some of that always went on, but, at this point, it's a damned joke.

Regardless, most of the real deregulation, in my view started with reagan.


I don't mean to sound flip, but I am not sure how to say this in a way that doesn't sound flip, at least on a message board: It's a matter of historical fact, not a matter of anyone's opinion. And even if deregulation did start with Reagan--the S & L debacle, bad as it was, was minor compared to what repeal of Glass Steagall resulted in worldwide. Greece, Spain, the US, ye gods.



I don't really see any reason besides partisanship to focus on Reagan and the S & L more than on Clinton and repeal of Glass Steagall. True, Congress passed it, but Clinton urged them to. If I recall correctly, the vote for repeal was overwhelming in the house, but no Democratic Senator voted for repeal. So, even if you assume that Democrats would vote in an override by a Democratic President exactly as they did first time, repeal would not have survived Clinton's veto.

Yes, I am aware of that statement from Obama regarding his own classification, but I suspect that was more to gain acceptance by moderates. Same thing with Obama and Hillary putting Reagan on their list of best Presidents.


If they were lying, neither deserved the Oval Office, IMO. But, I don't think either of them was lying.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
43. Killing someone is a big mistake, not something in a post. No apologies necessary.
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 08:18 PM
Apr 2014

For whatever it's worth, if you are interested, there is a relatively concise wiki on deregulation and the interview where Carter brags about de-regulating airlines and other things should come up in a google search. And, the Bankruptcy Code of 1978, passed by a Democratic Congress to replace the Bankruptcy Act of 1934 that FDR, Joe Kennedy and others produced has the clue right in the name. It did away with safeguards against officers of a publicly held company milking it and then filing for reorganization as a way of freezing out stockholders or making their interest less valuable--something in which banks might cooperate.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
27. I was responding to the OP, not you here.
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 04:22 PM
Apr 2014

I was also being sarcastic, but it was directed toward Obama.

And everything you say about Reagan is absolutely true--except that I'm not quite sure what you meant with "whose many actions were disciple." Despicable?

Yeah, the "Reagan Democrats" dug their own grave. Too bad they pulled the rest of us in with them.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
18. "with all the excesses of the 60s and the 70s, and government had grown and grown" Yeah, all that
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 03:36 PM
Apr 2014

excess food to hungry people, and housing to homeless people and unemployment for people without jobs...

More important to cut the deficit. Like bombing Vietnamese villages to save them.

 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
6. It has been refreshing and inspirational to hear a president say what he thinks bluntly and
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 02:37 PM
Apr 2014

honestly, Carter has been remarkable in his twilight years.

progressoid

(49,991 posts)
14. Pfft. Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy.
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 03:09 PM
Apr 2014

Silly ex-President with your morals and ideals.

And people wonder why the President hasn't asked you for any advice.

Zen Democrat

(5,901 posts)
17. He was a wonderful peacemaker as President; and an inspirational ex-President.
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 03:35 PM
Apr 2014

Jimmy Carter is just about the best American I can think of. A GREAT man.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
44. It took years, but he did get the hostages back without a war.
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 08:23 PM
Apr 2014

A lesser President would have killed and maimed and displaced Iranians and Americans and not gotten back a single hostage alive, anyway. Apparently, the guy with the funny hair who used to be on Nightline for some reason thought the latter would be the preferable alternative Idiot.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
21. Those pesky environmentalist and their need to save the planet!
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 03:43 PM
Apr 2014

ALL WE WANT TO DO IS MAKE A LITTLE MONEY!

RoverSuswade

(641 posts)
28. If Obama approves the pipeline and it RUPTURES
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 04:35 PM
Apr 2014

causing a major spill the republicans will forever tag him as the president that caused the biggest oil disaster in US history. And you know they will!

blue14u

(575 posts)
37. Don't think for a minute
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 05:54 PM
Apr 2014

that the "THINK TANKS" don't already have a plan in place to

make sure he gets caught with a "ruptured" pipeline...

Good forward thinking RoverSuswade!!!!

The RWers want a fast track on the pipeline and the TTP.... We

need to be a step ahead of the GOP in all things.

#VOTE2014.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
45. Thing is, no matter what happens, Republicans will tag him with one perjorative or another.
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 08:26 PM
Apr 2014

They're all "drill, baby, drill," unless a Democrat decides to drill. That's just Republican schtick. It's all they've got.

What I am very unhappy to see to see is Democrats being appalled by "drill, baby, drill, unless a Democrat decides to drill.

I used to think we were better than that.

BlueJac

(7,838 posts)
31. Jimmy had vision....
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 04:59 PM
Apr 2014

Solar panels on the White House was ahead of the game back then, and if we would of stay in that directions who knows where we would be now. I bet, way better off than we are now. This country is short sighted if that good. Bought and paid for is more like it. We are allowing the destruction of this country for the lack of vision of a cleaner future. Then again, bought and paid for!

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
33. Mr. Carter, come on!
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 05:06 PM
Apr 2014

If President Obama doesn't approve KXL the righties® will never say another nice thing about him. They will call him names and behave disrespectful toward him.

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
50. What makes James Earl Carter unique among living ex-presidents?
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 12:25 PM
Apr 2014

He is a unique and shining example of a president who was not bought off before, during or after his presidency by corporate campaign "donations", lobbyists, bribes, board memberships, or $1/2 million dollar "speaking fees", i.e, post-elective office payoffs. Tragically for our country, that makes him one of a kind.

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