Why would they ... they made some progress with this law, and are getting crucified for it from the right and the left. So, if it gets overturned, they'll simply walk away.

If it remains, now you have a foundation on which to push single payer. You can do this at both the state and federal levels, and create a meet in the middle strategy. And that's the strategy you need so long as the GOP has about 40% of the overall vote.

the state of today's Democratic party.

The best solution would be to work to get single-payer enacted at the state level.

The ACA would create an environment in which the states had a wide range of paths forward.

An overturn will not accelerate that.

The states cannot enact single payer as its known anywhere else in the free world -- whatever they call it. The big advantage for single payer is cutting down on the huge administration costs, and the states don't have the authority to change that.

States cannot regulate the vast majority of the insurance / health delivery network, including:
VA Benefits & Tricare
Federal Employee's Benefits
Medicare
Medicaid
Self insured employer's (most companies with more than 50 employee's) -- including retiree's of the same.

Bottom line is states only have authority over individual and small group health plans, which make up a very small percent of total health spending.

The popular features will be "repassed" (mostly the donut hole, the 26 year old provisions, and SOME expansion of medicaid). The GOP will vote for them too and declare victory and that this was what they wanted all along. Obama and the democratic party will be labeled as the "over reaching, uncooperative, freedom hating" party, and it will stick.

It ain't fair, but it is what it is.

Then we still have a better, slightly more compassionate system than we did 3-4 years ago. I dont' love it, but it fixed a lot of bad things about our system and was sadly as good as we were or are going to get.

If it's not overturned then we'll perhaps see more incremental change in maybe another decade. Still not single payer, still not medicare for all, still not universal in any way. Bust some change.

If the law is overturned then it's done. Nobody will touch healthcare reform for at least 50 years.

And it's actually worse because I think sadly, Dems will do what they always do and internalize the defeat and take this to mean that they have to move even further right. Which means that if HCR is overturned I can also see them giving in on medicare/medicaid reform as well as Social Security reform.

The fact is that when Republicans suffer a defeat, they dig in harder and deeper and come back for more again and again on the same fight. When Democrats suffer a defeat they cower in a corner until they can figure out how they can get Republicans to like them more.

A few states are already working on them.

that will push for single payer.
Occupy is a bunch of heros and patriots fighting for social justice so we join them.
The defeatist attitude here shocks me.
The racist teabaggers never gave up and wont so we have to fight them or just accept the misery they inflict on us.

The Republicans fall all over themselves trying to please the teabaggers.
The Demcorats keep Occupy or any of their more vocally liberal base for that matter at complete arm's length (on a good day.....further out on most other days).

To get single payer advocates, not only would we have to fight against Republicans in a general election setting, but in a lot of cases we'd have to fight against the Democratic party and the people who weild the power and money within the party who also don't want single payer.

There was no greater obstacle to single payer than Blanche Lincoln, and even after that the president enthusiastically supported her for re-election. And it's that type of thing that brings about a lot of the defeatist attitude. It's one thing to feel like you're undertaking a fight where "our side" goes against "the other side". But it's disheartening to know and realize that we're fighting against "the other side" and a large chunk of "our side" as well.

The GOP is scared of the tea party.

If a Dem won't fight for single payer (or whatever) we work against them. We find someone who is. Win or lose.

If the GOP gains House, Senate and POTUS. The people will revolt over their overreach - and progressives sweep the next time around.

But then we have to break the mindset of "Well, any dem is a good dem and big tent, blah blah blah....." that permeates our party. Hell look at how many apologists here on DU excuse blue dogs and their ilk because "Oh well they'll vote for a dem as majority leader!!!", regardless of how many different ways that same person will go out of their way to stymie the legislative agenda of that same leader.

Hell, for that matter Obama himself by all accounts at this point took single payer off the table and has as of yet come out for such a system (if I missed his advocacy of this then please let me know because it's very possible). So let's say this fails before next election, and immediately thereafter we see Obama rather than shifting more forcefully for single payer, instead retreat back into his beltway media shell of thinking he has to go the opposite direction and be less bold and more conservative. If that's the case then what do we do? Vote him out? Not vote? Or do we continue to hold our nose on the subject.

I'm firmly in the camp of win or or lose, dem or not, working against those who refuse to work for the interests of the people. I just don't think we have enough on "our side" who agree with that.

I couldn't agree more, Obama and the rest of the Dems take their base for granted, because no matter what they do, even if it's to continue with many of Bush's policies, it's ok.
We still vote for them
guantanimo is still open for buisness, it's ok
we still vote for them
4 years later, still in unending wars all over the world, it's ok
we still vote for them
the rich continue to get richer, the poor continue to get poorer, it's ok
we still vote for them.
ect, ect........

We have the first african american president, is life any better for our black brothers and sisters???? no......
I'm starting to think that a loyal democratic voter is a fool.......we get crapped on by our democratic leaders, but we still support them because......there democrats, and it isn't what they actually do, it only matters what the promise at election time.


Why the hell would they change??

throw out bad republicans (from their point of view) in primaries. They will vote for Romney in droves, or for any other "liberal" republican in general elections.

It doesn't work as well for us -- see Joe Liberman.

Carville is right about that. Problem is, lots of folks are going to needless die and suffer as a result. I think it's going down, this reactionary and agenda driven SCOTUS is going to be our ruin.

that this mandate is going to stick. At least one of those conservative judges will come out and make the heritage foundation right wing argument about personal responsibility and mandates and it will be deemed constitutional so the insurance companies can breathe a sigh of relief.

Even though I think I'd win it, the fact is I'd want to lose it. I think the ACA is/was flawed. But it's still the best option we have at this point which is both sad and pathetic, but also the cold hard truth.

Dellinger is a former US Solicitor General, former Assistant Atty General of the United States and former head of the Office of Legal Counsel for the Clinton White House. He has spent more time inside the Supreme Court than some of the statuary.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/03/after-rough-day-in-court-an-optimistic-view-for-supporters-of-obamacare.php

“The court,” he [ Dellinger ] said, “understood that the alternatives being offered by the challengers were really not workable,” and that the most likely policy option if the mandate is struck is a more public system like single payer.

“I don’t think either the Chief Justice or Justice Kennedy thinks that’s a good option,” Dellinger said.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-

They may hate Obama and Obamacare, but the saner ones know what the likely ultimate consequences of striking it down will be.

I really do. However, you wrote "the saner ones".

That's a big assumption. There's nothing sane about any of these people.

$1000?????

But I know a good bet when I see it. If that makes me Mitt jr so be it

Not that complicated. Elect some senators and congressmen that support the concept of Government control of healthcare in America. Simply move the Pre-existing coverage requirement to Medicare. Tax the Private insurance companies that want to continue business with a special tax to go to Medicare and continue with the requirement that 80% of every premium dollar is spent on benefits for policy holders. Develop a “Public Option” so anyone could sign up with Medicare at any time. Watch heads explode.

when it turns out to cost a lot more than anticipated. This sort of pressure could be bad (cutting services) or good (Improving efficiency by bringing it all under "one roof&quot .

Haven't you been reading DU?

If ACA is overturned then we will never see health care reform in our lifetime. This is it! If this doesn't work we will all die due to lack of insurance for the next 100 years. Nothing can be done. It's true, I read it here yesterday.

Help us Obama-Wan you're our only hope.


The last few days on DU have reminded me of the "Obamaville" ad and the rhetoric being spewed by the right wing.

If Obama is elected, it will be the end of America as we know it. A knife in the heart of religious freedom. In 4 years we will all be socialist heathens living high on the welfare hog, having sex paid for by the government and having abortions 3 times a year.

If ACA is struck down it will be the end of health care reform for the next 100 years. There won't be anything anyone can do, Aliens could invade our world and health care reform will still be a distant memory. You, your children and your children's children will suffer at the hands of corporate insurance forever.

Gimme a fucking break. I'm one of those people that ACA is supposed to help but I will end up falling through the cracks as usual. No big deal, we have been dealing with this crap for years and will continue to do so whether or not this thing is struck down.

It's all about Obamacare.

something started. Nothing is impossible, it's just harder. The bottom line is that we can't do anything productive until we drive the private, for profit health insurance industry out of the business. In order to do that we have to make it unprofitable for them. Then they will get out of the business. How to do it is the herculean task before us. Better start putting together ideas. I thought of the public option or allowing people to buy Medicare on the open market about ten years ago. If they really practiced free market, competitive trade, it should have done the job, but the truth is that they are into monopoly not free trade. This industry shot the public option down, so we have to go back to the drawing board.

One that if ACA is overturned, nobody will touch the issue for 50 more years. That's nonsensical.

I expect that if the ACA is overturned, health-care reform immediately becomes a major issue* in this campaign because the public wants and demands that it be addressed. They're not going to be allowed or able to not-touch the issue for 50 years. It's not going to be allowed to drop...come hell or high-water they're going to have to resolve America's healthcare crisis in the immediate-term, certainly within the next 4 years.

What we get may not be as good as the ACA or it may be a bullet in the head of the insurance rackets in a government-run system or it may be a simple regulatory change requiring insurers to be NPOs and delisted from the stock-exchanges (yes, the government can do that.)...but it's not going to be shelved; too many people care and demand that the issue be addressed.


*-especially if Democrats are smart because it, like the recovering economy, is a sure-loser for the GOP.

though there are provisions that help that kick in in 2013 or 2014.

Vermont has already written and passed legislation that when it is allowed, their exchange will include something that is very close to single payer. Now, assuming that most Vermonters select it and that Vermont sees care improve as costs decline compared to the rest of the country, many states - particularly neighboring states could well follow.